Blizzard's biggest failure - Managing to motivate people to gear up

[therealbowser]

Gear is a means to an end.

If you have to motivate people to gear up, then that means that you are failing to motivate people to participate in compelling content.

This means the content is not compelling enough to gear up for, or that it is 'too easy' to gear up for. In virtually every case I can think of, the problem is simply the former.

[Samuraijake]

It's bullshit, I'm sitting at 415+ ilvl and I just destroy everything, even in the new zones.
If you want a more casual friendly mmo, play FF14, I play both and it's great. But it lacks "raid content" and that's why I'm sure I wont play it a lot after the initial SwB surge (just finished the MSQ and started "the stuff grind")

LFR content is not even a raid..... I have never set foot in that shit in 2 years. If people think they "finished the game" by doing LFR then Blizzard can't do anything about that...

What do you want ? Mythic only raid that no one clears ? DO you really think that would motivate people to gear ? Absolutely not, they just won't even enter the raids (like in vanilla/BC). Or just one "normal" raid, that every guild clears in 2 weeks ? Why that would motivate people to gear up ?!

I don't really understand what you're trying to say. Do you actually want LESS content ? (no normal/hc raids, no mm+ ?)

If people don't even raid after LFR then they probably don't have the skill or motivation to play seriously for mythic raids...

I play "semi hardcore" and I didnt even bother with allied races because I'm attached to my main... rerolls are for casuals or ultra hardcore people with a lot of free time

Without catch up mechanics, "bad" people whould be stuck in uldir forever, and then they would stop playing the game because they don't have acces to new content... There was catch up stuff EVEN IN FUCKING VANILLA (Or "classic" lol) ... One example : T0.5, Did you even play BC ? When sunwel was released you could get better gearr than BT via justice badges (heroic dungeons)... -_______-"""""

MMO-C forums never cease to amaze me... "Old raiders" that don't even know that catch up mecanics exist since Vanilla...

It's not even worth having gear to do world content thanks to ilvl scaling.

just got back into the game... destroyed those same mobs in nazjatar with my 270 ilvl shaman after hitting 120.

[Felshatner]

I think you make some good points. Motivation is absolutely a problem right now. My group only has enough people left to run M+ these days, and there is no reason to run anything else. Everyone that doesn't love M+ or PvP has drifted away from the game, including myself. The primary thing I enjoy in this game is raiding, but they cut the tier sets and bumped M+ above raiding for getting gear. Cutting master loot was a terrible idea, cutting tier sets was a terrible idea, these role-based cosmetic sets look awful and I have no motivation to complete one.

For me, gearing in raids was always more about looking unique and cool than it was about the stats of the gear treadmill. New and interesting effects were nice but Blizzard hasn't been amazing about adding these in recent history (see: all of the CoS loot, non-statstick trinkets sucking). That said, tier sets often added enough variety to make up the slack and keep gameplay fresh and compelling.

Blizzard didn't add any new specs again, and didn't even add a new class. All of the existing classes lost stuff. My gameplay in Eternal Palace will be the exact same as it was in CoS and Uldir and BoD. I'll clear heroic and quit, once again. It feels like Blizzard is no longer making a game for players like me.

[Jotaux]

It's bullshit, I'm sitting at 415+ ilvl and I just destroy everything, even in the new zones.

Theres a reason they had to hotfix the scaling in legion so it counted all your gear and not just what you had equipped. You were able to unequip a belt and become way stronger relative to the outdoor content. An ilvl increase to your belt makes you weaker, an ilvl increase to your chest makes you stronger. You'll generally gain more than you lose of course.

[Sinaa]

Fuck scaling imo.

[A Chozo]

Because people don't just care about gear?

Begone with your outlandish claims. Everyone knows that all WoW players just want to gear up and nothing else. Raiding and Dungeons only have sense if there's loot.

[sephrinx]

What's the point in gearing up Today when I can wait 3 weeks anbd get 30 more item level for the same investment?

The "only the latest patch is relevant" mentality has killed the game imo.

[Naiattavain]

8.2 released. I had fun, I was busy. I did all dalies every day. I even did the pet battles and enjoyed that for extra Najatar rep. I killed almost all rares every single day, all dailies, everything. Then I reached Revered with both factions, unlocked flying. An investment.
Then what? Why would I continue doing dailies? For mounts? No thanks, already have 200+ of those.
I was enjoying 8.2 for the exact amount of time I knew I would enjoy it, until I unlocked flying.
Now it's back to M+ farming simulator. I rather not. I have not played for 4 days now, at all.
And I don't seem to be alone. I payed close attention to the amount of people that were logged on in my guild every day. It somehow stooped down very hard the next coupple of days. Hmm...

Why did people enjoy Legion and the Mage tower? Because they permanently unlocked cool transmogs. It felt like an investment.

Why is all people do these days farm mounts and transmogs? Because it feels like an investment.

Why do people NOT farm the best possible gear? Because it feels like a huge waste of time. Just wait for the next catch up mechanic.

Why do people NOT feel motivated to do Mythic raiding? Because they already beat the raid in LFR. Why would they bother? Blizzards current "carrot on a stick"? A Mount, of course! Other than that it's just the same gear with higher numbers that don't give you exclusive access to ANY content.

It is BLIZZARDS JOB to make us motivated to do their activities.

This is why unlocking allied races and unlocking flying is something people do, it's an investment. Yes they are good systems, as long as Blizzard "never" add a catch up mechanic on them.

They have, however completely failed making us motivated to put any effort into gearing and Mythic raiding.

They failed making people bother getting 25 people together in Cata when they made 10 man give the same gear.

They failed making people bother even raiding when LFR was introduced in the end of Cata.

They failed making people do Battlegrounds because it gives no competetive gear whatsoever.

I am exactly as casual or hardcore in this game as Blizzard manages to make me motivated to be. Mounts and Achievements don't cut it to make me bother putting in any effort. Try something else.

Here is a suggestion for a motivator, that is the core of any MMORPG... GEAR... The main motivator to do anything until catch up mechanics and multiple difficulties started appearing mid WotLK...

And there is no "striking a balance" here on catch up mechanics vs gear feeling like an investement. Either gear feels like an investment OR you have catch up mechanics. There is no inbetween.

And yes, multiple raid difficulties / scaling dungeons is a form of catch up mechanic.

At Blizzcon, there will be yet another expansion with all the same failed motivation to gear up. What exactly will be different this time?

you're the perfect candidate for nerfing.

[gd8]

they need to just do away with gear upgrades/gear itemization entirely and go all in on cosmetics unlocked through difficult raids/dungeons/pvp/challenges like the mage tower

[Ostraga]

I generally agree with OP but one thing you need to realize is that catch up mechanics have existed since Vanilla/TBC. You had ZG in Vanilla and ZA in TBC. The main difference between catch up mechanics back then and now is that back then they acted as an extra way to get gear and not a complete replacement for everything prior. People would be able to start playing mid Vanilla / TBC and still have to go through the same progression everyone else did. You still had to get Pre-Raid BIS. You still had to clear MC / BWL / Ony. You just now had an extra raid lockout available to progress faster IF you choose to and IF you put in the effort to run ZG every 3 days. The main difference between then and now is that right now.. all we need to do is put in no effort while running around killing easy loot pinatas over and over until we get enough resources to purchase a piece of gear that makes the past 8 months of the expansion obsolete. And it honestly shows the state of the current game when people point to Legion to indicate a "better" time.. because Legion was absolute trash in the grand scheme of things.

[toffmcsoft]

This is where Classic Wow will shine. The journey and the gear you pick up on that journey.
Blizzard had the game built the right way. Changing it to support casual play is what ruined in.

[Cede]

You guys think M+ killed raiding? You got actual Mythic level loot from the weekly cache in Legion. They scaled it down in BfA and there is still a complaint.

The issue isn't the catch up mechanics or M+ killing raiding, the issue is the game has been stagnating. No new abilities in 3+ years now with the removal of artifacts and the pruning most all specs have less today than they did 6 years ago. No set bonuses, legendaries are gone, and really no max level progression outside of the AP grind because of it. They stripped out any meaningful customization and skill and you guys think the issue is catch up mechanics?

My guild is still fairly active but we aren't mythic raiders, attendance boss and no real interest in it, because of the people. We all log in nearly daily and hang out doing M+, pvp, raiding, and BS in discord. WoW has killed the community side of the game AND the personal progression side at the same time as streamlining classes/specs.

I've played since vanilla and it was never about getting gear until LK/MoP. In vanilla and BC there was always something to do outside of the gear grind and generally you did those things with people you liked. Remove attunements and those smaller progression systems has created this misplaced focus on gear as if that's the issue. It's not. If your only goal is to get a higher ilvl then you don't really understand why you were playing to begin with. No one bought this game with the plan to rush max level and get the highest ilvl possible.

[natpick]

8.2 released. I had fun, I was busy. I did all dalies every day. I even did the pet battles and enjoyed that for extra Najatar rep. I killed almost all rares every single day, all dailies, everything. Then I reached Revered with both factions, unlocked flying. An investment.
Then what? Why would I continue doing dailies? For mounts? No thanks, already have 200+ of those.
I was enjoying 8.2 for the exact amount of time I knew I would enjoy it, until I unlocked flying.
Now it's back to M+ farming simulator. I rather not. I have not played for 4 days now, at all.
And I don't seem to be alone. I payed close attention to the amount of people that were logged on in my guild every day. It somehow stooped down very hard the next coupple of days. Hmm...

Why did people enjoy Legion and the Mage tower? Because they permanently unlocked cool transmogs. It felt like an investment.

Why is all people do these days farm mounts and transmogs? Because it feels like an investment.

Why do people NOT farm the best possible gear? Because it feels like a huge waste of time. Just wait for the next catch up mechanic.

Why do people NOT feel motivated to do Mythic raiding? Because they already beat the raid in LFR. Why would they bother? Blizzards current "carrot on a stick"? A Mount, of course! Other than that it's just the same gear with higher numbers that don't give you exclusive access to ANY content.

It is BLIZZARDS JOB to make us motivated to do their activities.

This is why unlocking allied races and unlocking flying is something people do, it's an investment. Yes they are good systems, as long as Blizzard "never" add a catch up mechanic on them.

They have, however completely failed making us motivated to put any effort into gearing and Mythic raiding.

They failed making people bother getting 25 people together in Cata when they made 10 man give the same gear.

They failed making people bother even raiding when LFR was introduced in the end of Cata.

They failed making people do Battlegrounds because it gives no competetive gear whatsoever.

I am exactly as casual or hardcore in this game as Blizzard manages to make me motivated to be. Mounts and Achievements don't cut it to make me bother putting in any effort. Try something else.

Here is a suggestion for a motivator, that is the core of any MMORPG... GEAR... The main motivator to do anything until catch up mechanics and multiple difficulties started appearing mid WotLK...

And there is no "striking a balance" here on catch up mechanics vs gear feeling like an investement. Either gear feels like an investment OR you have catch up mechanics. There is no inbetween.

And yes, multiple raid difficulties / scaling dungeons is a form of catch up mechanic.

At Blizzcon, there will be yet another expansion with all the same failed motivation to gear up. What exactly will be different this time?

post this on official forums or send to a dev cos this post is spot on,well said sir.

[chaoticcrono]

8.2 released. I had fun, I was busy. I did all dalies every day. I even did the pet battles and enjoyed that for extra Najatar rep. I killed almost all rares every single day, all dailies, everything. Then I reached Revered with both factions, unlocked flying. An investment.
Then what? Why would I continue doing dailies? For mounts? No thanks, already have 200+ of those.
I was enjoying 8.2 for the exact amount of time I knew I would enjoy it, until I unlocked flying.
Now it's back to M+ farming simulator. I rather not. I have not played for 4 days now, at all.
And I don't seem to be alone. I payed close attention to the amount of people that were logged on in my guild every day. It somehow stooped down very hard the next coupple of days. Hmm...

Why did people enjoy Legion and the Mage tower? Because they permanently unlocked cool transmogs. It felt like an investment.

Why is all people do these days farm mounts and transmogs? Because it feels like an investment.

Why do people NOT farm the best possible gear? Because it feels like a huge waste of time. Just wait for the next catch up mechanic.

Why do people NOT feel motivated to do Mythic raiding? Because they already beat the raid in LFR. Why would they bother? Blizzards current "carrot on a stick"? A Mount, of course! Other than that it's just the same gear with higher numbers that don't give you exclusive access to ANY content.

It is BLIZZARDS JOB to make us motivated to do their activities.

This is why unlocking allied races and unlocking flying is something people do, it's an investment. Yes they are good systems, as long as Blizzard "never" add a catch up mechanic on them.

They have, however completely failed making us motivated to put any effort into gearing and Mythic raiding.

They failed making people bother getting 25 people together in Cata when they made 10 man give the same gear.

They failed making people bother even raiding when LFR was introduced in the end of Cata.

They failed making people do Battlegrounds because it gives no competetive gear whatsoever.

I am exactly as casual or hardcore in this game as Blizzard manages to make me motivated to be. Mounts and Achievements don't cut it to make me bother putting in any effort. Try something else.

Here is a suggestion for a motivator, that is the core of any MMORPG... GEAR... The main motivator to do anything until catch up mechanics and multiple difficulties started appearing mid WotLK...

And there is no "striking a balance" here on catch up mechanics vs gear feeling like an investement. Either gear feels like an investment OR you have catch up mechanics. There is no inbetween.

And yes, multiple raid difficulties / scaling dungeons is a form of catch up mechanic.

At Blizzcon, there will be yet another expansion with all the same failed motivation to gear up. What exactly will be different this time?

I agree with most of what you said but where i disagree is blizzard needing to motivate us... I dont like raiding and so nothing they do will make me want to raid... I dont even bother with lfr most of the time.

as for gearing up, the reason i dont care about gearing up isnt JUST because of catch up mechanics, its because there is no end gear (ie bis). its an endless treadmill so why bother.

It also helps to enjoy playing the game and when the classes arent fun to me i dont want to do ANYTHING let alone gear up... atleast when the game is fun to play i will get some gear to make soloing stuff easier.

[cozzri]

Raiding died for me when they added multiple difficulty levels in WotLK with Trial of the Crusader; and further cemented my ire towards raiding with the addition of ilevels on items/character sheet. I use to be an avid raider, then the game changed; you had to beat the raid a bunch of times on normal to gear up for harder; but it’s the same raid.... burnout is real. The more difficulty levels added, the less appealing raiding became for me as a means of gearing up, and eventually quitting altogether. I miss the days of one difficulty of raid, I feel those were the golden years, raiding difficulty levels have been a dumpster fire of a system that splits the community up hard.

[Xirrohon]

My guild has been more active than ever. Im seeing people logon my friends list that havent been on for months.

Honestly, allowing transmog killed a lot of the game. It used to be that you looked like some dumb peasant if you didnt raid. To look good, you had to either do PVP/Raid. Its what motivated me to play. Now they dont really put much into gear. Why should they? People are just going to wear some old stuff they farmed up. Its too late to go back on Tmog. That would be the last nail in the coffin for many people, but it really caused a huge lack of motivation.

[Kyphael]

Well yeah, when LFR which the vast majority of the player base can be done with Timewalking gear which is like SUPER EASY to get, what motivation is there to get geared. I don't even care if I get gear in LFR anymore, as long as I kill all the bosses. What is there to collect? We no longer have tier sets to collect appearances, and even if we did, I already have like 30 appearances or more with old gear transmogs, what do I care about getting gear? I have no aspiration or time for non LFR raiding as is the case with most.

Blizzard should really take a hard look at raiding and how it works because if only 10-20% of the player base even bothers with it and sees it, is it worth spending that much development time on? I'm not one of those that thinks LFR ruined raiding, in fact, I wouldn't see anything anymore if not for it, as I gave up raiding after Cataclysm, but I feel they should change how they design raiding. I personally loved the Wrath approach with Vault of Archavon and the Onyxia anniversary where it was super easy to put together pugs for it. Then again, maybe they don't need to change anything. They primarily design raiding for LFR and just tune shit up for the true raiders so not much effort is being wasted after all.

[crazypeople]

Sounds like OP doesn't want to play an RPG.

If you think WoW is an RPG you have no clue what an RPG is.

[MoanaLisa]

This is the biggest issue with wow currently, even tho some people like it; is that it’s too diablo 3 and not enough Everquest. It showers you in gear and don’t worry, it’ll shower you again next patch if you wanna play.

It's an interesting take given the number of people who only play for the reward and think of content that doesn't have a proper reward as garbage. It's a sizable group. I wonder how they would take to more content that rewards much less.

The gear progression system we have now was always going to grow tiresome eventually.

I don't have much else to say other than I do the content I like to do. I'm so far off the gear treadmill I don't see or hear it any longer and the game is more pleasing to me for it.

[aceperson]

I was enjoying 8.2 for the exact amount of time I knew I would enjoy it, until I unlocked flying.

i understand this issue as i have been bored at times and just don't log in for weeks at a time in some cases. however, blizz has given content such as meta achievements, new pet battles, secrets to find, etc. blizz has given you goals to work towards. if you don't want to work towards them, there is nothing they can do to convince you to.

if you don't want mounts, you won't go for mounts. if you don't want titles, you won't go for titles. if you don't want battle pets, you won't go for battle pets. if you don't want to work towards anything, then expect there to be nothing to do.

i won't lie and say blizz isn't just repeating the same reward structure and doesn't need to add new kinds of rewards (like wearable pennants, those are really rare), they really could be bothered to give us something new. but this problem goes both ways.