Paladins in Classic

[Mukind]

you know theres also people/guilds who dont care about min/max and stuff?

ret is bad and whoever denies it is clueless but doesnt mean its wont get any invites

No one really cares about min maxing*, everyone understands you could do this with way less people

It's about standards and incentives

The guild runs smoothly when loot is based on performance. If you're ok slumming it with no loot you don't gotta min max. Ok we'll either replace you or let you continue on cuz you're nice or funny or just a hardcore mat farmer. WHatever.

Guilds who don't do this will not clear all the content unless they are on average very good (not that crazy in vanilla, some retail guilds will probably experience this even tho they've never done the content) and will just never struggle at all.

Most guilds were pretty bad on p servers. I find no reason to think that will be different in classic. Gotta put those standards in early if you don't want it to collapse at AQ

[Roxyfoxy]

Where are people getting this shit from? Greater Blessings + Pally Power means you click 4-5 times and the raid is buffed.

Paladins were the best Alliance healers. The best in PvP due to armor and defensive spells, there is no question here.

Will outheal anyone else in raids by sniping FoL accross the raid and will never oom. People talking about Priests being better because of their AoE healing, seemingly forgetting that Prayer of Healing only heals the group the Priest is in. Great AoE healing being limited to 5 people in a 40 man raid.

Anyone saying priests are the best healer because their AoE healing have no clue about priests and vanilla.

Priests are not the best because of aoe healing, they are considered the best because of their big toolkit to fit in any situation.
They got fast small heals, they got slow big heals, aoe healing, HoT heal and shields.
A paladin only really got their fast medium sized heals, their big heals arent sustainable in a raid. But thats fine, no doubt about that, paladins are amazing, and the synergy they have with the priest healing is perfect and make the life of a tank so much better.

FoL sniping is only a thing in easy content, like MC ZG and BWL to some degree when raid damage is so low that healers need to fight over getting heals out, but when you get into harder content the damage is higher and priests get more time to cast large heals.

The thing many people forget, is that healing in vanilla is not about throwing out as many heals as possible, and topping the healer meter, its about healing spesific assignments, tank healing and raid healing.
When you get a assignment on who to heal, that is your job, you can raid heal a bit when you got time, but the assignment is your job to make sure gets the healing he needs.
A paladin assigned to a MT, but keeps healing the raid so he can top the healing meter is not a good paladin if it means that the priest needs to heal extra to make up for the lack of paladin heals on the tank, the paladins job is to heal up the minor damage so the priest can cancelcast his greater heals to save mana for the big damage spikes, and to keep the tank alive while the priest cast slow big heals.

The healing meter means nothing in vanilla, and many people dont understand that. Those who think the healing meter matters, are not good healers at all.

All this talk about best healers, are done by people who dont understand the basics of healing and synergy. They are all the best healer, at different kinds of healing, except for the alliance druids, who are so unfortunate that they fill the same niche as the paladin, and the paladin does it better, but on horde side they are great as well.

[Itori]

Why do i see people trying to defend the concept of a viable ret pally? The devs that worked at blizz back then came from games like everquest and firmly believed a hybrid should heal, ret was horrible in vanilla, trust me i tried to get out of the plate healer roll but no builds would cut it, no gear would help enough to replace your mage, hunter, warlock, or rogue for a class that has to sit and drink after every mob pull, its not worth it.

[Schmilblick]

The real question is : is ret only an auto attack champion since they only have judgment ?

[Skillslam]

ret is worth playing just for that stupid jump animation human males make on seal of command procs

so satisfying

[Mukind]

Anyone saying priests are the best healer because their AoE healing have no clue about priests and vanilla.

Priests are not the best because of aoe healing, they are considered the best because of their big toolkit to fit in any situation.
They got fast small heals, they got slow big heals, aoe healing, HoT heal and shields.
A paladin only really got their fast medium sized heals, their big heals arent sustainable in a raid. But thats fine, no doubt about that, paladins are amazing, and the synergy they have with the priest healing is perfect and make the life of a tank so much better.

FoL sniping is only a thing in easy content, like MC ZG and BWL to some degree when raid damage is so low that healers need to fight over getting heals out, but when you get into harder content the damage is higher and priests get more time to cast large heals.

The thing many people forget, is that healing in vanilla is not about throwing out as many heals as possible, and topping the healer meter, its about healing spesific assignments, tank healing and raid healing.
When you get a assignment on who to heal, that is your job, you can raid heal a bit when you got time, but the assignment is your job to make sure gets the healing he needs.
A paladin assigned to a MT, but keeps healing the raid so he can top the healing meter is not a good paladin if it means that the priest needs to heal extra to make up for the lack of paladin heals on the tank, the paladins job is to heal up the minor damage so the priest can cancelcast his greater heals to save mana for the big damage spikes, and to keep the tank alive while the priest cast slow big heals.

The healing meter means nothing in vanilla, and many people dont understand that. Those who think the healing meter matters, are not good healers at all.

All this talk about best healers, are done by people who dont understand the basics of healing and synergy. They are all the best healer, at different kinds of healing, except for the alliance druids, who are so unfortunate that they fill the same niche as the paladin, and the paladin does it better, but on horde side they are great as well.

I was with you til the last two paragraphs

No there are best healers and paladins are it

Yes meters don't matter in vanilla....most of the time. If you're barely clearing an encounter tho yea those logs mean something

You bring half your usual healers and they'll probably mean something too

[Oakshana]

There are guides out there but it's not worth it, if u roll paladin heal

IF you want a true hybrid pick druid

What? They suffered in PVE from the exact same situation as Paladins. I mean, fine to DPS or Tank for dungeons, but you're only going to be healing in a raid as a druid.

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The real question is : is ret only an auto attack champion since they only have judgment ?

Yup. You judge and then basically just autoattack and pray for SoComm to proc.

[Mukind]

What? They suffered in PVE from the exact same situation as Paladins. I mean, fine to DPS or Tank for dungeons, but you're only going to be healing in a raid as a druid.

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Yup. You judge and then basically just autoattack and pray for SoComm to proc.

They pay the tax in a different way tho. Shifting makes their DPS seem viable next to hpal dps

As well as their off tanking next to pally tanking

You really can shift and become an off tank as a druid in a raid.

[Roxyfoxy]

I was with you til the last two paragraphs

No there are best healers and paladins are it

Yes meters don't matter in vanilla....most of the time. If you're barely clearing an encounter tho yea those logs mean something

You bring half your usual healers and they'll probably mean something too

Logs and meters are two very different things. Logs give you information, meters are easy to cheese to make yourself look better than what you are.

Paladins are not the best healer, they are the most mana efficient healer, but they are not the healer that can throw out the most healing withing a 5 or 10 minute fight.
If you have a 40man raid that take constant damage druids are actually able to throw out more healing than both priests and paladins, priest being the 2nd paladin the 3rd. But thats a rare situation.

What class is the best healer, varies from boss to boss, the difference is, you wont be clearing naxxramas without priests, you can however clear naxx without paladins.

[Oakshana]

They pay the tax in a different way tho. Shifting makes their DPS seem viable next to hpal dps

As well as their off tanking next to pally tanking

You really can shift and become an off tank as a druid in a raid.

But the point stands. No serious raid is going to bring a feral cat or boomkin to dps or feral bear to tank. They just aren't.

[Alex86el]

Flash of Light: (PALADIN)
Rank 6: 140 mana
1.5 sec cast
Heals a friendly target for 343 to 384


Flash Heal: (PRIEST)
Rank 7: 380 mana
1.5 sec cast
Heals a friendly target for 812 to 959

Just to show that the Paladin's Flash of Light is a rather weak heal.
Priest does cost 2.5x in mana but also heals for 2.5x as much !

That said you can tank Dungeons,
Prot Paladins are probably the best for Scholo and Stratholm due to the undead mobs.

the difference is that paladins had more than 50% crit.
which meant more healing-per-mana but more importantly, they never went oom.

[Dundebuns]

the difference is that paladins had more than 50% crit.
which meant more healing-per-mana but more importantly, they never went oom.

Also everyone down ranked to heal about 1k per cast, so it really didn't matter what cost it was at max rank.

[Gaidax]

Flash of Light: (PALADIN)
Rank 6: 140 mana
1.5 sec cast
Heals a friendly target for 343 to 384


Flash Heal: (PRIEST)
Rank 7: 380 mana
1.5 sec cast
Heals a friendly target for 812 to 959

Just to show that the Paladin's Flash of Light is a rather weak heal.
Priest does cost 2.5x in mana but also heals for 2.5x as much !

Paladins had Illumination which refunded 100% mana cost on crit heal, which very resulted in them shitting mana. On top of that Flash of Light being fast and super-efficient resulted in Paladins having very efficient and effective healing with little to no overhealing and they still could healbomb tank if needed on top of that with DF.

[Mukind]

Logs and meters are two very different things. Logs give you information, meters are easy to cheese to make yourself look better than what you are.

Paladins are not the best healer, they are the most mana efficient healer, but they are not the healer that can throw out the most healing withing a 5 or 10 minute fight.
If you have a 40man raid that take constant damage druids are actually able to throw out more healing than both priests and paladins, priest being the 2nd paladin the 3rd. But thats a rare situation.

What class is the best healer, varies from boss to boss, the difference is, you wont be clearing naxxramas without priests, you can however clear naxx without paladins.

logs are just compilations of meters....so no they're not

and really a log could be based on jsut one guys meter

in a 5 or 10 minute fight is exacdtly when they will throw out the most HPS lol

Unless you put resource contstraints on the others they will outheal paladins. Problem is they run into resource problems very fast.

While a full buffed paladin with luck has a crazy crit* chance and thus can just spam max rank HPS much longer than anyone else. And all other forms of rotation down to the most downranked

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But the point stands. No serious raid is going to bring a feral cat or boomkin to dps or feral bear to tank. They just aren't.

I didn't say anything about raiding

I said if you want to play hybrid play druid

You will in your raid get a hcance to rationally shift and off tank sooner or later lol

so no your point doesn't stand, it was stupid

[Roxyfoxy]

logs are just compilations of meters....so no they're not

and really a log could be based on jsut one guys meter

in a 5 or 10 minute fight is exacdtly when they will throw out the most HPS lol

Unless you put resource contstraints on the others they will outheal paladins. Problem is they run into resource problems very fast.

While a full buffed paladin with luck has a crazy crit* chance and thus can just spam max rank HPS much longer than anyone else. And all other forms of rotation down to the most downranked

Logs and meters are not the same thing, cause the logs show detailed info on who healed what, something the meter does not. I know you have more detailed meters on retail now who give much more info, however not nearly the same as logs.


But it is obvious that you dont understand the basics of healing synergy, the reason paladin and priest is such a great combo, is because they cover eachothers weakness.
If it wasnt for priests, paladins would not be great healers,
On horde priests are weaker, cause shamans dont fill the priest weakness as well as the paladin, druids do, however, not as good as the paladin.
A paladin is good at one thing, and thats throwing out medium sized heals, they dont got the tools to cover large damage, so they are useless when they dont have someone to cover that weakness.
And the paladin is mana efficient yes, but at the cost of only being able to cast small heals, compared to the priest who can cast all sorts of heals, the fast and small heals being the least efficient ones.

"With luck" is not something a healer can rely on, and i think you are heavily underestimating the priest and druid mana regen. With the same gear as your paladin have crazy crit chance, the priest and druid also have great mana regen.
Paladins crit chance doesnt get to those kind of values that they can spam almost endless until they are in high naxx gear, at which point druid and priest also barely go oom.

[Mukind]

Logs and meters are not the same thing, cause the logs show detailed info on who healed what, something the meter does not. I know you have more detailed meters on retail now who give much more info, however not nearly the same as logs.


But it is obvious that you dont understand the basics of healing synergy, the reason paladin and priest is such a great combo, is because they cover eachothers weakness.
If it wasnt for priests, paladins would not be great healers,
On horde priests are weaker, cause shamans dont fill the priest weakness as well as the paladin, druids do, however, not as good as the paladin.
A paladin is good at one thing, and thats throwing out medium sized heals, they dont got the tools to cover large damage, so they are useless when they dont have someone to cover that weakness.
And the paladin is mana efficient yes, but at the cost of only being able to cast small heals, compared to the priest who can cast all sorts of heals, the fast and small heals being the least efficient ones.

"With luck" is not something a healer can rely on, and i think you are heavily underestimating the priest and druid mana regen. With the same gear as your paladin have crazy crit chance, the priest and druid also have great mana regen.
Paladins crit chance doesnt get to those kind of values that they can spam almost endless until they are in high naxx gear, at which point druid and priest also barely go oom.

Meters are recoring that info, they're just ot relaying it to you in real time

Idk how retail works

But in other games and classic you take your meter from the addon. Then upload it to a 3rd party site. Which becomes the log. Ideally with multiple pepole especially in classic with 40 man raids

you don't get vnailla healing. Everyone spams one spell. Ideally their most mana efficient single targetspell. 1 druid gets to hot. 1 priest gets to hot. That's it

Druid spams healing touch

Priest spams flash heal (should spam heal but htye're bad)

Paladin spam flash of light.

Which is why paladins super basic kit doesn't hurt it at all. In reality it's the epitome of what you want. Now it's high HPS rotation leaves something to be desired. BUt it's much more sustainable so given enough time it's the best at that too.

Needs luck to last until a fight that's fallen apart is finished, not luck to be better than a priest, lol

[Roxyfoxy]

Meters are recoring that info, they're just ot relaying it to you in real time

Idk how retail works

But in other games and classic you take your meter from the addon. Then upload it to a 3rd party site. Which becomes the log. Ideally with multiple pepole especially in classic with 40 man raids

you don't get vnailla healing. Everyone spams one spell. Ideally their most mana efficient single targetspell. 1 druid gets to hot. 1 priest gets to hot. That's it

Druid spams healing touch

Priest spams flash heal (should spam heal but htye're bad)

Paladin spam flash of light.

Which is why paladins super basic kit doesn't hurt it at all. In reality it's the epitome of what you want. Now it's high HPS rotation leaves something to be desired. BUt it's much more sustainable so given enough time it's the best at that too.

Needs luck to last until a fight that's fallen apart is finished, not luck to be better than a priest, lol

Thanks for the laugh. Not going to bother with you anymore. You have no idea how priests play, so you should stop commenting on it. If your priests play like that, gkick them.

[Unholyground]

If you are in a non-competitive raiding guild in no rush to clear content no one will care what role your are if you dig your heels in the sand, as long as you are willing to learn and get better at the spec you want to stick with. Elitists are the only ones who care and they will be in guilds far away from those who want to have fun with the game.

That being said I will have gear for each spec just in case a role is needed for dungeons and what not.

[Mukind]

Thanks for the laugh. Not going to bother with you anymore. You have no idea how priests play, so you should stop commenting on it. If your priests play like that, gkick them.

No i do

I'm again S tier at this lol

If you as a priest don't have heal in your log, you're bad or your guild is so bad you just never get ot be mana effecient lol

live with it.

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If you are in a non-competitive raiding guild in no rush to clear content no one will care what role your are if you dig your heels in the sand, as long as you are willing to learn and get better at the spec you want to stick with. Elitists are the only ones who care and they will be in guilds far away from those who want to have fun with the game.

That being said I will have gear for each spec just in case a role is needed for dungeons and what not.

no one will care IF YOU DON'T WANT LOOT PRIO

If you want equal loot prio, people will care

[Roxyfoxy]

No i do

I'm again S tier at this lol

If you as a priest don't have heal in your log, you're bad or your guild is so bad you just never get ot be mana effecient lol

live with it

Misread and only saw the flash heal spam.

But still no, priests use many heals, not just heal spam, depends a lot on the role you are assigned to, and what boss you are doing.