Shadowbringer Spoiler Discussion Thread

[malanior]

Everyone summoned Zodiark originally, it was only in later times did we break off to summon Hydaelyn

You left the council before summon him

[Granyala]

Everyone summoned Zodiark originally, it was only in later times did we break off to summon Hydaelyn

13 council members summoned Zodiark. One Ascian was absent.
It's a possible scenario that this was the same Ascian that eventually summoned Hydaelyn and got splintered into the Warriors of Light.
We might be the 8/14 version of that nameless Ascian, which is why Emet briefly sees us as one of his.

[dope_danny]

13 council members summoned Zodiark. One Ascian was absent.
It's a possible scenario that this was the same Ascian that eventually summoned Hydaelyn and got splintered into the Warriors of Light.
We might be the 8/14 version of that nameless Ascian, which is why Emet briefly sees us as one of his.

I think thats what it is purely to get around the tempering aspect. A primal is summoned with some vague order that it follows even in some screwed up Djinn kind of way. We saw that with the HW titan that also confirmed a resummoned primal is the same idea but not the same entity. We could be the warrior of light not because we are tempered but because as the person that summoned her then in her timeless point of view we are still part of that 'contract' so to speak and we are the wol because we summoned her, not chosen by her at all. Continuity from the summons perspective but not the summoner.

[Onikaroshi]

13 council members summoned Zodiark. One Ascian was absent.
It's a possible scenario that this was the same Ascian that eventually summoned Hydaelyn and got splintered into the Warriors of Light.
We might be the 8/14 version of that nameless Ascian, which is why Emet briefly sees us as one of his.

Could have have swore everyone summoned him, but oh well, btw we're not part of an Ascian. Ascian is the name given to the unsundered members of the Source, they weren't called that until the sundering. And it's supposedly 9/14s after Ardbert merged with us, 7 calamities and the soul from the 13th.

[KrayZ33]

No, we summoned Hydaelyn

We were still a part of *that* council (once)

It makes very little sense btw that not all Ascians wanted to summon Zodiark as there were about to be wiped out of existence.
It is also stated (by Hydaelyn herself if I remember correctly) that she lived in peace with Zodiark for a while before he wanted more power and they began fighting.

It's also possible that we are the reason why Zodiark became the bad guy.
Not only does us leaving the council mean that we have forsaken the Ascian sense unity and community, but we might've spread doubts among the rest of us which altered the summoning/creation process of Zodiark.

The summoning of Hydaelyn is also extremely weird. We left the council because we didn't want to sacrifice our people, yet we chose to sacrifice all of our people who were against that idea of "sacrificing" to stop Zodiark??

Inb4 WoL is the true villain.

13 Members of the Council from a race that is extremely united, democratic and favors discussion over everything else agreed on summoning Zodiark - 1 dude decided to mess things up by summoning Hydaelyn.

[dope_danny]

We were still a part of *that* council (once)

It makes very little sense btw that not all Ascians wanted to summon Zodiark as there were about to be wiped out of existence.
It is also stated (by Hydaelyn herself if I remember correctly) that she lived in peace with Zodiark for a while before he wanted more power and they began fighting.

It's also possible that we are the reason why Zodiark became the bad guy.
Not only does us leaving the council mean that we have forsaken the Ascian sense unity and community, but we might've spread doubts among the rest of us which altered the summoning/creation process of Zodiark.

The summoning of Hydaelyn is also extremely weird. We left the council because we didn't want to sacrifice our people, yet we chose to sacrifice all of our people who were against that idea of "sacrificing" to stop Zodiark??

Inb4 WoL is the true villain.

13 Members of the Council from a race that is extremely united, democratic and favors discussion over everything else agreed on summoning Zodiark - 1 dude decided to mess things up by summoning Hydaelyn.

If you talk to all the ancients they mention their culture had no conflict but it was kind of bruteforced, even wearing different clothing was seen as selfish and arrogant in a way. What Hades saw as utopia could have been a at best communist or authoritarian regime where it was only a utopia because there was nothing to compare to. But then maybe people start to disagree. Not publicly or openly but behind closed doors. Something that festers. In a world where creation magic is rife and a single stray thought can vastly twist things about. I mean look at the doomsayers we have today saying on the news how things have 'never been as bad as they are now', pretty sure people that survived the holocaust would just laugh at such a sentiment right? but negative thinking creeps up on people and feeds on subconscious fears. The 14th could have simply been 'going along with it' because the Terminus was caused by a rise in a cultural divide and rocking the boat was clearly doing the world no favours. Then when they saw Zodiarks effects or simply the lack of Ancients they could have come to the conclusion that the source of the problem then and the source now was not so much Zodiark but the people themselves and it was time to try something new.

I would not be surprised if the world being separated was not an accident at all but the desired effect. Divide people up, make contingencies to survive, give different forms of life a chance without one people ever assuming total control ever again.

[Granyala]

So in the end, as great an expansion as this has been, it wasn't because of us. We felt like supporting players at best, not really having a role to play other than bringing our martial prowess to bear wherever we're told to point it. But we did get two great performances from other characters, which really made the expansion.

Yup, sadly the game has always been that way b/c they can't support decisions with actual differences to the game world in an MMO. It just doesn't work.

[Wyrt]

Could have have swore everyone summoned him, but oh well, btw we're not part of an Ascian. Ascian is the name given to the unsundered members of the Source, they weren't called that until the sundering. And it's supposedly 9/14s after Ardbert merged with us, 7 calamities and the soul from the 13th.

Original soul fragment left on the source+7 rejoinings+Ardbert. So 9 is correct.

I think the soul fragment on the 13th is lost forever and the WoL would never be made whole. Unless that elf from the role questlines is the soul fragment from the 13th.

[Granyala]

Well, I don't mean us as players, I mean the characters.

We arrived, we were told to kill the bad evil things, and we did it because they were bad evil things. Never did we stop and really converse with any of our enemies, or consider their viewpoints, because they were just absolute evil. (Emet-Selch at the very end notwithstanding, of course)

Well, we tried to negotiate wit Vaughtry but he wasn't interested.
As for his lackey, Ranjit: we too tried to reason but alas, his convictions were too strong.

The sin eaters are not sentient (I agree that was a missed opportunity, would like to know more about them) and that's it. No more big bads.

I hope for an interesting Arc involving Elidibus and more than "lets whack him too and wrap things up".

[Sorrior]

Well, we tried to negotiate wit Vaughtry but he wasn't interested.
As for his lackey, Ranjit: we too tried to reason but alas, his convictions were too strong.

The sin eaters are not sentient (I agree that was a missed opportunity, would like to know more about them) and that's it. No more big bads.

I hope for an interesting Arc involving Elidibus and more than "lets whack him too and wrap things up".

I acfually think he is going to try sending other shards WoL after us..i kinda think he is going to wind up returning all of our remaining soul fragments to us.

Also i am curious if every echo user was once an ascian

[Merie]

Original soul fragment left on the source+7 rejoinings+Ardbert. So 9 is correct.

I think the soul fragment on the 13th is lost forever and the WoL would never be made whole. Unless that elf from the role questlines is the soul fragment from the 13th.

Our shard was the sole survivor actually. Elidibus saved him.

[Wyrt]

Our shard was the sole survivor actually. Elidibus saved him.

So that elf from the role quest is another shard of the WoL? Or was there another person from the 13th that survived that I missed?

[Faroth]

So what is everyone's opinion on Emet-Selch's version of history? Personally, I think we're only getting partial truth or the truth as he perceived it.

He claims that they planned to summon Zodiark to give their world its own will to fight against the calamity that was impending.
The impending calamity started as smaller things across the ocean, or in other regions, that the Council seemed willing to ignore at first.
Once the calamity struck full force, the Ascians' society essentially manifested abominations as their fear essentially bled into their creation magic without their direction of it.
Zodiark is summoned and the planet is saved, but the one member had already left the council and presumably caused the split that led to a faction summoning Hydaelyn.

Questions.
1. Why would the one council member (us) leave before Zodiark was summoned. Seems to imply they didn't agree with it. Also, why would they then start the movement to summon Hydaelyn to counter Zodiark?
2. What was the initial cause of the calamity? Were the smaller things they chose to ignore twisted forms of their creation magic getting out of control? Were they doing things without realizing it? Or was there something more?

I'm wondering if Zodiark and Hydaelyn aren't just Prime Primals, but something more. The notion of the godlike being being nothing but our imagination given life is pretty different than most Final Fantasy entries.

I'm wondering if Zodiark was something more and was able to release small horrors to feed into the fears of those using creation magic. Building it up until they essentially empowered Zodiark to be freed. The Ascian (us) who left the council prior to the summoning may have realized they were wrong and there was some greater evil at play. By that same notion, Hydaelyn may be something greater as well.

I could have sworn the early mythology was that Hydaelyn & Zodiark were once something of a combined form. Zodiark got up to no good and Hydaelyn cast him out, causing the fracture of the worlds.

Emet-Selch's version is so starkly different, I feel like the patches are going to give us story reveals surroudning why (we) left the council and summoned Hydaelyn and more about her true nature. My gut tells me the truth is something of an amalgamation of the two versions of the story.


Alternatively, the Ascians' original world was beset by a JENOVA/Lavos being and they had to summon/create Zodiark to stop the alien parasite, but since Zodiark was summoned by beings filled with anger and fear over the doom of their world, Zodiark proved poisonous to the very planet it was meant to save and Hydaelyn is essentially the Lifestream given consciousness.

(That last one is just fun Easter egg nods and tinfoil hat fun)

[Wyrt]

I don't think we are one to summon Hydaelyn. The ancient we talk to while waiting in ancient DMV says that all the people who opposed Zodiark sacrificed themselves to summon Hydaelyn. So if we were to be involved in summoning Hydaelyn we wouldn't exist now since she would have eaten our soul.

[dope_danny]

Well the final role quest explains the thing i kept thinking: who the hell is this elezenn chick?

Turns out shes the warrior of light from the 13th, brought to the first to cause the flood in hopes that it will cancel out the flood of darkness on her world. Which makes the events of Eden right now make me think even more Shadowbringers is going to be about restoring the 13th in some way, otherwise Zodiark can never really be a threat.

[Sorrior]

Well the final role quest explains the thing i kept thinking: who the hell is this elezenn chick?

Turns out shes the warrior of light from the 13th, brought to the first to cause the flood in hopes that it will cancel out the flood of darkness on her world. Which makes the events of Eden right now make me think even more Shadowbringers is going to be about restoring the 13th in some way, otherwise Zodiark can never really be a threat.

Waiiit which role quest?

[dope_danny]

Waiiit which role quest?

Theres more when you finish them all.

Ever notice that Elezenn barmaid in the Crystarium looks rreeal familiar?...

[Sorrior]

Didn't pay attention and thanks..guess i better step up my leveling lol

[dope_danny]

As someone who doesn't play a healer, are you essentially saying I won't see the extended story?

You need to have finished every Warrior of Darkness role storyline to unlock the final story about the 13th, the Shadowbringer and the cause of the flood. My advice just use your main story roullette to get a healer up in a lazy week of runs.

[blackblade]

As someone who doesn't play a healer, are you essentially saying I won't see the extended story?

Level SMN, use free SCH levels to do healer quest line. Profit.