Sunreavers supporting Sylvanas?

[mickybrighteyes]

And i pointed out how non of this events (aside from Daelin) is relevant.

Actually you're proving another point cause you immediately argue "it wasn't alliance"... Like I said that other poster shoul

Garithos was not officially Alliance (since he self-appointed himself as a “Marshall”)

He was not self appointed. He rose in rank largely due to his father's reputation. He still attained Grand Marshall rank and was the leading commander in post scourge invasion Lordaeron. In the region of Lordaeron his word was law for all intents and purposes for anything military related. To include issuing of orders and handling of disciplinary actions.
edit:
I should point out it's written that he was promoted to Grand Marshall because of who he knew. He took charge in Lordaeron as the highest ranked military official. Self appointed leader of the alliance in lordaeron would be correct, but self appoint grand marshall not so much.

and SI7 attack was retconned to make sense on why Gallywix still rules after his “lets enslave all goblins from Kezan” stunt. How MORE disingenuous can you get?
.

Citation please. Cause far as I'm aware there has been no retcon to SI:7 seeking out Thrall, firing on Gallywix's ship, and the subsequent altercations on the lost isles.

But if you say this is retconned, please provide a citation stating such to prove it as it seems existing lore databases lack such information.

[Kyphael]

Blood elves have shown to be spineless dick riders who will go with whatever seems right for their own benefit rather than any established moral compass set in place by their own race, which is non-existent.

When the Scourge targeted and victimized Lordaeron, they shrugged and said "it's not our problem" just like the Gilneans. Eventually, it DID become their problem and cost them big. Ironically, Sylvanas was the only true warrior in their ranks, the rest either went down like chumps to Arthas or those in power elected not to fully throw their support behind Terenas.

They later sided with Illidan out of convenience to save their own ass after the alliance was left in shambles, instead of uh, you know, re-building as the survivors of Lordaeron and Ironforge did with Stormwind.

They LATER sided with the Horde out of convenience yet again because of one racist human's actions because Sylvanas convinced them. I'm not going to turn this thread into a "why blood elves should have/shouldn't have joined the Horde" debate, this is just an example they always go with what seems like the easy choice instead of the right one. It's always the path of least resistance.

Fast forward to Mists, they see Garrosh going full ret@rd and twiddle their thumbs until Baine and Vol'jin go "FUCK GARROSH, YEAAAAAH, INSURRECTION!" and they go along with it--not because defying your Warchief until now would be considered treacherous, they couldn't care less about Orcish ways. They're never the first ones to step forward, they just go with the flow. Not to mention they had been DISCUSSING WITH VARIAN GOING BACK TO THE ALLIANCE.

Fast forward to the present, it's Mists of Pandaria 2.0. Sylvanas has been going full ret@rd since 8.1, but Lor'themar is again jumping on the bandwagon after Thrall and Saurfang saved Baine and went "YEAAAH, FUCK SYLVANAS! INSURRECTION!"

Spineless dick riders. That's the blood elf legacy.

[Varodoc]

Alliance leadership was Lordaeron. Garithos was the highest ranked known living lord. (Carlia wasn't known to be alive.) that makes him leader of the alliance.

But let's not forgat that even afterwards the blood elves tried to rejoin the Alliance and were betrayed again by the night elf invasion lead by a dwarf who were destroying blood elf defense sanctums. Which would have basically wiped out the blood elves because it would have unleashed the scourge into Silvermoon and beyond.

There's nothing in any lore that retcons the goblin start zone.

No, the Alliance of Lordaeron was dismantled by Arthas Menethil when King Terenas died and Lordaeron was destroyed. Stormwind and Ironforge were part of the Grand Alliance, not the Alliance of Lordaeron. The hint is in the title, there can't be an Alliance of Lordaeron if there is no Lordaeron anymore. Garithos had no authority whatsoever over them.

The Arcane Sanctums of Quel'thalas were not destroyed by Alliance spies, can you tell me which quests claim that? Because I can't remember those questlines at all. As far as I know the Arcane Sanctums were already destroyed when the Ironforge delegation got there, and the Darnassian spies were only observing the effects and results of the Arcane Sanctums.

Also, the Kaldorei and Ironforge did not betray anyone. You cannot betray someone with whom you haven't been allied in a decade because they decided to leave the Alliance as soon as they no longer had need of it.

[Combatbutler]

will go with whatever seems right for their own benefit rather than any established moral compass set in place by their own race, which is non-existent.

You mean like every race in the franchise?

When the Scourge targeted and victimized Lordaeron, they shrugged and said "it's not our problem" just like the Gilneans. Eventually, it DID become their problem and cost them big. Ironically, Sylvanas was the only true warrior in their ranks, the rest either went down like chumps to Arthas or those in power elected not to fully throw their support behind Terenas.

Wrong they did send troops to help Lordaeron the only kingdom that pretty much did nothing was their fellow human Kingdom of Gilneas.

They later sided with Illidan out of convenience to save their own ass after the alliance was left in shambles, instead of uh, you know, re-building as the survivors of Lordaeron and Ironforge did with Stormwind.

They sided with illidan because the Alliance representative was actually trying to get them all killed.

They LATER sided with the Horde out of convenience yet again because of one racist human's actions because Sylvanas convinced them. I'm not going to turn this thread into a "why blood elves should have/shouldn't have joined the Horde" debate, this is just an example they always go with what seems like the easy choice instead of the right one. It's always the path of least resistance.

They sided with the horde, because the horde actually helped them in their starting zone instead of actively spying on them, Garithos was not the reason they ultimately decided to go with the horde, it was the night elf delegation rummaging around in their kingdom and the duplicity of Ironforge. Blood elves were neutral until the end of their starting zone.

Fast forward to Mists, they see Garrosh going full ret@rd and twiddle their thumbs until Baine and Vol'jin go "FUCK GARROSH, YEAAAAAH, INSURRECTION!" and they go along with it--not because defying your Warchief until now would be considered treacherous, they couldn't care less about Orcish ways. They're never the first ones to step forward, they just go with the flow. Not to mention they had been DISCUSSING WITH VARIAN GOING BACK TO THE ALLIANCE.

Twiddling their thumbs? Is that why they went to the isle of thunder, helping the Pandaren out while trying to find weaponry they could use against Garrosh, before Vol'jin actually started to organize his rebellion. Caring about orcish ways is now suddenly important? Aside from orcs no one really cares about their ways, tauren do not have their warrior culture or code of honor, niether have the darkspear, goblins, pandaren and especially not the forsaken.

[Amaterasu65]

Just because a few Sunreavers made a hypocritical and failed attempt to kill Jaina doesn't mean the whole faction is supporting Sylvanas. Aethas Sunreaver would probably back Lor'thermar if the latter was to rebel against Sylvanas.

[cparle87]

*Laughs in night elf* “Revenge”, oh my thats rich. That thing exists?

So let me see if I get your thinking. Your people teach magic to another people. Build a city with them that would never exist if you hadn't taught them magic. Lived alongside them for millenia. And then someone who is an infant by elven standards decides that you don't belong in your city anymore, arrests you all, and kills those who resists. And that's after things like Garithos sentencing them to die and the Kirin Tor not lifting a finger. The Sunreavers have two major, major grievances with Dalaran. Revenge is totally justified. Look at the rescue Baine scenario for a good example.

[VladlTutushkin]

So let me see if I get your thinking. Your people teach magic to another people. Build a city with them that would never exist if you hadn't taught them magic. Lived alongside them for millenia. And then someone who is an infant by elven standards decides that you don't belong in your city anymore, arrests you all, and kills those who resists. And that's after things like Garithos sentencing them to die and the Kirin Tor not lifting a finger. The Sunreavers have two major, major grievances with Dalaran. Revenge is totally justified. Look at the rescue Baine scenario for a good example.

Infant or no , they broke the neutrality TWICE and first time they got with mild reprimand and “please dont do it again, alright?” And only when they delivered a weapon of mass destruction (which also utilized malicious powers of Sha) to Garrosh they got the boot.

[Combatbutler]

Infant or no , they broke the neutrality TWICE and first time they got with mild reprimand and “please dont do it again, alright?” And only when they delivered a weapon of mass destruction (which also utilized malicious powers of Sha) to Garrosh they got the boot.

The kirin tor were never really neutral to begin with, some sunreavers operated pretty much like the rest of the order, but were called out for it. Dalaran and its inhabitants constantly try to preach neutrality while cherry-picking the entire time, what is acceptable or not changes in a matter of weeks or even days.

Which is why the purge is such a beautiful thing, Dalaran is simply a clusterfuck with no clear direction or unity, which is why they constantly have traitors and get robbed.

[Aeula]

“Remember Sunwell!” “But dont remember how Velen sacrificed a Heart if his “God” to reignite it.”

Bullshit, Blood Elves have been helping the Draenei in every non-faction conflict since Velen restored the Sunwell.

[VladlTutushkin]

Bullshit, Blood Elves have been helping the Draenei in every non-faction conflict since Velen restored the Sunwell.

It baffles me how people hate on Baine for what... warning Jaina of attack (which backfired) and returning Derek while Velen just gave Horde race a source of “UNLIMITED POWAAAAH” and did it without any strings attached.

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Bullshit, Blood Elves have been helping the Draenei in every non-faction conflict since Velen restored the Sunwell.

Also , where did they helped them?

[Tarba]

Infant or no , they broke the neutrality TWICE and first time they got with mild reprimand and “please dont do it again, alright?” And only when they delivered a weapon of mass destruction (which also utilized malicious powers of Sha) to Garrosh they got the boot.

Lol. The kirin tor helped the alliance before them. First the kirin tor sent troops at theramore to help the alliance. They sent the kirin tor alliance blood elves to kill horde, and later, Jaina, leader of the kirin tor personnaly gave magical protections to the most instables mages (nightelve's) so they could study a dangerous artefact (the bell).
Kirin tor was never neutral. But it's bas only when it helps the horde.

I one case we only have the supision on one guy in a group. And of the other hand a big offficial statement.

[VladlTutushkin]

Lol. The kirin tor helped the alliance before them. First the kirin tor sent troops at theramore to help the alliance. They sent the kirin tor alliance blood elves to kill horde, and later, Jaina, leader of the kirin tor personnaly gave magical protections to the most instables mages (nightelve's) so they could study a dangerous artefact (the bell).
Kirin tor was never neutral. But it's bas only when it helps the horde.

You dont seem to get it. “Violating neutrality of Dalaran” is doing that act IN Dalaran, like when Sunreavers used portals there to get the Bell from Darnassus. Deeds done outside of the city usually overlooked.

[Tarba]

You dont seem to get it. “Violating neutrality of Dalaran” is doing that act IN Dalaran, like when Sunreavers used portals there to get the Bell from Darnassus. Deeds done outside of the city usually overlooked.

And from where did come the troops Dalaran sent against the horde during theramore?

[VladlTutushkin]

And from where did come the troops Dalaran sent against the horde during theramore?

Same as with all blood elfs trained in Dalaran who joined Horde. It dosent matter what they do outisde, if you sneak around inside and then and do shady stuff that matters.

[cparle87]

Infant or no , they broke the neutrality TWICE and first time they got with mild reprimand and “please dont do it again, alright?” And only when they delivered a weapon of mass destruction (which also utilized malicious powers of Sha) to Garrosh they got the boot.

What was the first time? And how do the actions of one person justify the imprisonment and expulsion of an entire people from the city they founded and which only existed because of them? To use a modern equivalent, it would be like the government of say India expelling all Hindus from the country and arresting/killing all those who resist because ONE of them helped deliver parts for a nuke to a bad guy.

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And from where did come the troops Dalaran sent against the horde during theramore?

Quite a few places. The Alliance donated a lot. Jaina asked Khadgar who asked A'dal who sent a lot of Sha'tar, including that general, to help. Kalecgos came and brought more people.

[Tarba]

Same as with all blood elfs trained in Dalaran who joined Horde. It dosent matter what they do outisde, if you sneak around inside and then and do shady stuff that matters.

So when you officially uses dalaran forces to help the alliance against the horde. You are neutral. But when one guy from a specific group go sneaky to help the horde, the whole group is not neutral?
That's pretty funny

[VladlTutushkin]

So when you officially uses dalaran forces to help the alliance against the horde. You are neutral. But when one guy from a specific group go sneaky to help the horde, the whole group is not neutral?
That's pretty funny

Your attitude is funny, Dalaran rules are “dumb” but law is law.

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What was the first time? And how do the actions of one person justify the imprisonment and expulsion of an entire people from the city they founded and which only existed because of them? To use a modern equivalent, it would be like the government of say India expelling all Hindus from the country and arresting/killing all those who resist because ONE of them helped deliver parts for a nuke to a bad guy.

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Quite a few places. The Alliance donated a lot. Jaina asked Khadgar who asked A'dal who sent a lot of Sha'tar, including that general, to help. Kalecgos came and brought more people.

First was when Sunreavers created a bomb for Garrosh and their agent was involved in Bombing of Theramore. Also they are not nearly as large as “all hinduists”, at best they are a sprawling sect, at worst a large group of mages.

[Tarba]

Your attitude is funny, Dalaran rules are “dumb” but law is law.

And neutral means neutral.
So don't use it to define something that is officially acting in a complete opposite way to neutrality.

Also, Jaina didn't had any right for the purge of Dalaran. Dalaran is ruled by a council, not by a dictator with full power. It was just an alliance attack.

[cparle87]

Your attitude is funny, Dalaran rules are “dumb” but law is law.

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First was when Sunreavers created a bomb for Garrosh and their agent was involved in Bombing of Theramore. Also they are not nearly as large as “all hinduists”, at best they are a sprawling sect, at worst a large group of mages.

According to the lore that was also just Thalen, not "the Sunreavers." So again we have an entire people, who founded the nation, are the reason it exists, who have lived there for millenia, being evicted/killed by a child for the actions of one person.

[Tripzzz]

According to the lore that was also just Thalen, not "the Sunreavers." So again we have an entire people, who founded the nation, are the reason it exists, who have lived there for millenia, being evicted/killed by a child for the actions of one person.

Funny isn't it? It's kinda like blaming all humans for the actions of Garithos and Arthas(he was already a DK, so he is not exactly human).