Was it Really about a Faction War?

[Florena]

And Blizzard stated emphatically, "Sylvanas will not be a Garrosh 2.0".

We'll see. That may just end up meaning she isn't a raid boss. The stage is certainly set to have the alliance and player horde forces work against her together. I don't have much faith in their writing these days to give them the benefit of the doubt. If they actually pull this story off in a satisfying way then I'll give them props but they haven't exactly earned my trust with their story this expansion so far.

[Shadowsgrace]

We'll see. That may just end up meaning she isn't a raid boss. The stage is certainly set to have the alliance and player horde forces work against her together. I don't have much faith in their writing these days to give them the benefit of the doubt. If they actually pull this story off in a satisfying way then I'll give them props but they haven't exactly earned my trust with their story this expansion so far.

Oh, I'm with you there. Their writing hasn't been that thrilling in a while now, so I hope they can pull it off to a satisfactory ending for both sides. Tbh... they could make her a raid boss, and we actually Kill her... flat out, and she'd still "...not be a Garrosh 2.0". Sad, I use to Like Sylvanas.

[Zenfoldor]

Faction war isn’t over as long as we haven’t dealt with Sylvanas. And finishing off Sylvanas in 8.2.5 which is a minor patch whereas 8.1 focused on “less important“ faction NPCs during the war? How would that work?

Perhaps she would just lose her rank/leadership of the Horde in 8.2.5 but escape alive and still proceeding with her plans. Then in the last boss of the last BFA raid she is actually killed, but she won't be the boss, she will just jump in at the last second trying to grab power(or worse, trying to redeem herself) and be banished/killed at that time(or win, and assume greater power setting up a new xpak).

[Kemsa]

I strongly believe that Blizzard did this "Factio Bait" just to see if the playerbase was still in that kind of mood.
It tried to re-ignite and old conflict Horde vs Alliance from Vanilla that late was estinguished thanks to TBC Wolkt and Cata, even Cata and MoP tried to re-ignited again and it just ended in that The Horde are a bunch of douchebags and scarycats. Since then we didnt have any other form of Faction War, until now.

But people really wanted the Horde vs Alliance? from Blizzcon i though yeah, people want that, but later and later people didnt like the "oh we are enemies again haha", people wanted a more deep Storyline in the Alliance, a les Chaotic Horde and a more "Modern Horde"

Thats why i also strongly belive that the "Hall of Fame Horde/Alliance" its just to see how "balance" the factions are, if really it was just "racials are op" fault. But more and more we see that the problem wasnt that, it was the Factions. People are disliking the Alliance by how pasive they are, how boring their story arcs are, how the raiding aspect and the dungeonering elite its just going to Horde. And the problem its so deep, that well...probably there isnt an alliance anymore and just horde players playing alliance in their break times.

And to just returning to the Topic. NO there wasnt, just a Homicidal Warchief that has a secret agenda and the Horde's follows because Voljin proclaimed Sylvannas Boss. Old grudges reignited "Warsong Lumbermill, Sunreavers purge, Taurajo, etc) are just a bunch of Reasons that people use to justify the War Campaign but at the end of the day it justs Hordes wants to defend themselfs from the Alliance, wich were incited bt the Horde..... wut.

Cant wait for 8.2.5 and 8.3 to just turn arround that BfA its an entire Old God Expansion and factions are no longer a thing.

[Zenfoldor]

Oh, I'm with you there. Their writing hasn't been that thrilling in a while now, so I hope they can pull it off to a satisfactory ending for both sides. Tbh... they could make her a raid boss, and we actually Kill her... flat out, and she'd still "...not be a Garrosh 2.0". Sad, I use to Like Sylvanas.

People make fun on anime writing and storylines all the time for being samey and cheesy, but they don't know about BFA. This is Saturday morning cartoon territory, and not the good ones, the generic ones.

At the very basic level, good writing should allow one to apply logic to the scenario and predict outcomes, but you cannot apply it realistically to much in the WoW universe lately.

[Mrbleedinggums]

We'll see. That may just end up meaning she isn't a raid boss. The stage is certainly set to have the alliance and player horde forces work against her together. I don't have much faith in their writing these days to give them the benefit of the doubt. If they actually pull this story off in a satisfying way then I'll give them props but they haven't exactly earned my trust with their story this expansion so far.

They're likely working her to a path where she is being a dark knight. She knows what needs to be done in order to ultimately protect the world but certain events need to be done beforehand. There was no way that the Alliance would work with the Horde when you have people like that mangy pup Genn (who honestly just needs to be put down at this point).

So we cause external (Teldrassil) and internal (forcing Baine to betray the Horde) conflict, and then allow people like Saurfang and Baine to live. Have them band together so that they feel they're going to strike together against Sylvanas (who is aware of their plans and acts accordingly every step of the way). Then they drive the Alliance to Naz'jatar where Nathanos already knows what is going to happen because he was likely informed by Sylvanas that is the only way to unlock N'zoth to kill him and take him to the Shadowlands when they seal his essence and banish/kill him.

She knows that the only way to fight the void is over mastery of death; In death you cannot be corrupted/persisted by the voices of the void (or likely the light for that matter) and that's why in the webcomic Alleria has her thoughts overwhelmed as voices yell at her to kill her sister.

They're setting up a Kerrigan-esque style story for Sylvanas and quite honestly, I'm glad. She isn't a villain; Everything she has done has been justified. She took advantage of her enemies on the assault of Teldrassil as they all sailed south to try to take control of the azerite. When Saurfang betrayed the Horde, she wasn't able to hold the Night Elves hostage and keep the Alliance on a short leash so instead she burnt their main stronghold in Kalimdor. If she had not done that, the Alliance could and would have overwhelmed Darkshore and then pushed to Orgrimmar to wipe out the Horde.

Baine and Saurfang betrayed the Horde for their own personal morals. You can argue that they're correct, but in the fantasy governmental system that the Horde takes (tribalism) you do not disobey your chieftain/leader's command. Period. It's like if someone disobeyed Ghenghis Khan; He would likely have dismembered or otherwise killed any who dissent against his command.

Sylvanas isn't like Garrosh because while he tried to push for a "pure Horde" of only Orcs and some Tauren, Sylvanas welcomes all of the Horde so long as they are loyal. Her concept of leadership is no different than Thrall or Vol'jin, simply her means of actions for the members.

[Shadowsgrace]

People make fun on anime writing and storylines all the time for being samey and cheesy, but they don't know about BFA. This is Saturday morning cartoon territory, and not the good ones, the generic ones.

At the very basic level, good writing should allow one to apply logic to the scenario and predict outcomes, but you cannot apply it realistically to much in the WoW universe lately.

They have been diving into the "deus ex machina" bucket and slathering it over everything they write and seeing what sticks.

[Mukind]

With BfA on its final lap(s). Did it really feel like a faction war? To me it didn't. We're already working together again. Sure there were moments but, meh. What's going to happen to the two warfronts? I'm still waiting on retribution for Teldrassil too btw

After experiencing a "world pvp phase" on vanilla p servers. Where there were no battlegrounds but honor was in the game.

And then adding WSG/AB on top of it you can see how they thought this theme would work when they tried to carry it over from the RTS. But really once you start queing into BG's even in vanilla the feeling of war quickly dissipates. You have opponents not enemies you're willing to take time out of your day to spite.

They would have to give some broad incentives to go out in the world and kill the other faction. While either turning off instanced PvP or making the rewards so great instanced PvP lost a lot of popularity.

You need to let players do the work of building antipathy between each other. Otherwise it's all just empty no one cares

Not that it would do anything for PvE server players. But do they really care about a war with the other faction anyway?

Lore can't solve this, although from what I've seen it certainly could be more of a better written war

[Shadowsgrace]

They're likely working her to a path where she is being a dark knight. She knows what needs to be done in order to ultimately protect the world but certain events need to be done beforehand. There was no way that the Alliance would work with the Horde when you have people like that mangy pup Genn (who honestly just needs to be put down at this point).

So we cause external (Teldrassil) and internal (forcing Baine to betray the Horde) conflict, and then allow people like Saurfang and Baine to live. Have them band together so that they feel they're going to strike together against Sylvanas (who is aware of their plans and acts accordingly every step of the way). Then they drive the Alliance to Naz'jatar where Nathanos already knows what is going to happen because he was likely informed by Sylvanas that is the only way to unlock N'zoth to kill him and take him to the Shadowlands when they seal his essence and banish/kill him.

She knows that the only way to fight the void is over mastery of death; In death you cannot be corrupted/persisted by the voices of the void (or likely the light for that matter) and that's why in the webcomic Alleria has her thoughts overwhelmed as voices yell at her to kill her sister.

They're setting up a Kerrigan-esque style story for Sylvanas and quite honestly, I'm glad. She isn't a villain; Everything she has done has been justified. She took advantage of her enemies on the assault of Teldrassil as they all sailed south to try to take control of the azerite. When Saurfang betrayed the Horde, she wasn't able to hold the Night Elves hostage and keep the Alliance on a short leash so instead she burnt their main stronghold in Kalimdor. If she had not done that, the Alliance could and would have overwhelmed Darkshore and then pushed to Orgrimmar to wipe out the Horde.

Baine and Saurfang betrayed the Horde for their own personal morals. You can argue that they're correct, but in the fantasy governmental system that the Horde takes (tribalism) you do not disobey your chieftain/leader's command. Period. It's like if someone disobeyed Ghenghis Khan; He would likely have dismembered or otherwise killed any who dissent against his command.

Sylvanas isn't like Garrosh because while he tried to push for a "pure Horde" of only Orcs and some Tauren, Sylvanas welcomes all of the Horde so long as they are loyal. Her concept of leadership is no different than Thrall or Vol'jin, simply her means of actions for the members.

She burned Teldrassil because a dying NElf triggered her saying, "You can kill us, but you can not kill hope". That's not "Dark Knight" mentality... that's batshit crazy looney toons mentality.

[Kemsa]

She burned Teldrassil because a dying NElf triggered her saying, "You can kill us, but you can not kill hope". That's not "Dark Knight" mentality... that's batshit crazy looney toons mentality.

did you read "A good war" ? well Sylvannas knew everything even that Elune would intervine and soothe the deads of the civilians. Sylvannas wasnt expecting Saurfang to be "pacify" and not killing Malfurion EVEN THAT HE CHALLENGE HIM INTO A MAKGORA.

[Shadowsgrace]

did you read "A good war" ? well Sylvannas knew everything even that Elune would intervine and soothe the deads of the civilians. Sylvannas wasnt expecting Saurfang to be "pacify" and not killing Malfurion EVEN THAT HE CHALLENGE HIM INTO A MAKGORA.

Did you ignore the fact that she didn't want to burn it, when she made her plans, but just wanted to occupy Teldrassil so the Alliance could not used it as a launching point platform to invade Kalimdor?

[Mrbleedinggums]

She burned Teldrassil because a dying NElf triggered her saying, "You can kill us, but you can not kill hope". That's not "Dark Knight" mentality... that's batshit crazy looney toons mentality.

You're really going to be taking a cinematic as canon over a book? Ok then.... anyone here with actual credibility?

[Shadowsgrace]

You're really going to be taking a cinematic as canon over a book? Ok then.... anyone here with actual credibility?

Hmmmm are we playing a book, or a Game. I'd take Game lore over anything written for the books... well at least the books since WoD.

[anon5123]

This is nothing new.

EVERY expansion since WoD or so has been touted as "putting the WAR back in warcraft!!"....and then failed to do that.

[GhostShaman]

So far it feels like an expansion of how far can we dangle the carrot and for how long...

[Aeula]

Today I had a quest in mechagon to save Alliance gnome soldiers... as Horde.

So no, they're pushing the same stupid faction neutral shit they did in Legion. Meanwhile characters like Lor'themar and the rest of the rebels have their tongue up Anduin and Jaina's arse. The majority of the Horde cast are Alliance now and our Warchief is about to become a loot pinata. AGAIN.

You can't even get the warmode experience on my (RP) server because it's so totally devoid of Horde players that you'll either be massacred on sight or have nobody to kill.

So no, this isn't a faction war expansion. It's a snooze fest of a discount lovecraft expansion with faction face paint. Killing weak ass enemies like Azshara and N'zoth with 'the power of friendship' when there's actually no fucking need for us to team up.

They burnt Teldrassil to make headlines in games media and destroyed undercity for their marketing cinematic. That's it.

[Cosmic Janitor]

It would be wrong to pretend that there wasn't a faction war. After the amount of casulties and the at least in lore implied amounts of resources (lives, material, money) wasted on this one sidedly started conflict it would be laughable to claim it didn't happen.

As for enjoying it, well as my post history will attest I couldn't give any less of a shit about the fucking faction conflict - besides ranting about how trite and forced it once again was. Could have done without it, pretty much exactly like time traveling dieselpunk-nazi orcs 2 expansions ago.

[Zyrinx]

There is no faction war. There hasnt been for a very, very long time. It is a plot device and nothing more. Not even a strong one. It feels forced, and really tacked on. Its far from my biggest complaint about the expac, not even top 10 probably, and in no way is it unique to BfA - its been pushed and forced for far too long.

I see absolutely no way this game would be in any way worse off if the faction war was ended, and we started working together. It can still be uneasy and skirmishes can break out, but it really should end. Its one of the many cyclical, repeating themes the game has.

"we hate each other grrrrrrrr, lets fight each other!!!! WAIT! something bigger and scarier! lets team up to kill it!!!! ok its dead now, lets go back to fighting each other over [resource] [land] [faction leader turned bad]"

15 years of this garbage and i think some people have just had enough of the writing style that only really fools 12yo kids.

You mean the hurr durr It's not World Of Peacecraft, nub! crowd? Yes. !00% true.

[arkanon]

You mean the hurr durr It's not World Of Peacecraft, nub! crowd? Yes. !00% true.

Honestly have no idea at all what this response is supposed to mean. Sorry.

[darklogrus]

Welcome to Wows sandbox story, Fight each other > watch main chars vanish with the story > team up to fight baddy > watch main chars come back to forget what they were mad about > rinse and repeat. Thats pretty much how the game always plays out..