425 non-socketed benthic gear with bonuses can be better than 455 gear

[Vapo]

LoL guys, i made a genuine question...you dont have an answer?
In my case i need for PvP. To be stronger.

why do you need benthic gear to have tertiaries and sockets or the special effects if you use them for pvp? just havin a flat 425 upgradeable gear with none of the forementioned would do the same trick.

[Big Thanks]

It absolutely does give rewards, they just are not 425 ilvl with a socket. If you want to pvp, pvp and get rewards from doing it. The irony here is absolutely astounding.

"raiders should just raid to enjoy raiding and loot shouldnt matter! why do you even need loot from mythic ep?"
"i want to pvp but the rewards are not good enough"

just wow......

You have a "hidden" problem with benthic you are not telling us.

I would understand if you were a PvP'er trying to have better gear than all the scrubs...but both Heroic and Mythic EP gear is better than benthic in PvP.

What excactly is your hidden reason?
Literally the only problem with this is that you wont feel the pleasure of an upgrade in 2 slots of gear. WoW....

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why do you need benthic gear to have tertiaries and sockets or the special effects if you use them for pvp? just havin a flat 425 upgradeable gear with none of the forementioned would do the same trick.

I absolutely dont need the special effects. I will never set foot inside a raid, much less EP.
And im not against removing the special effects in EP, if you so much desire that.

But i do want the gem sockets to gem with versatility.

Im stacking versatility stat to come up with a crazy spec for PvP im at 22% versatility atm

[Topornic]

Not only that but also these essences and benthic gear makes you wonder what is an upgrade and what is not. World of Simcraft all the way. I really just liked simple stats.

[rohoz]

It absolutely does give a relevant reward, they just are not 425 ilvl with a socket. If you want to pvp, pvp and get rewards from doing it. The irony here is absolutely astounding.

"raiders should just raid to enjoy raiding and loot shouldnt matter! why do you even need loot from mythic ep?"
"i want to pvp but the rewards are not good enough"

just wow......

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So why are you conveniently comparing a TBC heroic with a M+5, instead of collecting 3 starfish? because we are talking about Benthic gear, not a Mythic +5

Also convenient that you mention a 3 mob pull with players skilled enough to execute correct CC and stay on correct target, and re-cc as required, but neglect to talk about the extremely common occurrence of A) a group with 5+ mobs, B) a pat wandering in C)a player missing their CC, D) a player failing to stay on target and breaking the sap E) a player avoiding an attack and body pulling a second pack F)hunter randomly pulling the pack behind etc etc etc etc etc

This is beyond ridiculous - your argument is 100% based on an absolute perfect case scenario - something that very rarely occurred for general players of the game, and completely ignores the endless other possibilities and realities.

sheeping a mob is hard, news at 10.

[Doffen]

shitty entitled players captured the word casuals for themselfs quite a long time ago. Nowadays it just man they dont want to do content where they can fail. Some "casuals" on this forums bicker about how they cant maintain 24 alts and must play several hours a day

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badge gear in tbc was neither for every slot nor was it near bis and the start of 8.2 is not the end of the expansion
nice try of strawman on ficitional basis tho

Sounds like someone didn't play in TBC. Hard for me to strawman anything when someone is strawmanning my post. The point flew above your head, because it had nothing to do what arkanon tried to argue, which again was the strawman. If you are going to be a clever smartass you gotta do better than that.

[Revamp Man]

I'm waiting for the day Ion fulfils his promise that ilvl is a measurement of an upgrade in this game. Time and time again it isn't.

While that would be great...I can't personally see myself enjoying it.

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A few points

1. The gear is simply bis in current raid and zone

2. The gear is pretty easy to obtain and simply playing the game will help with the upgrades

3. This and the new crafting gear now has some specs around 90% of max output

4. It's only negative is that it makes new gear irrelevant but you will still keep the gear because next tier

5. Only the tippy top players suffer a negative

[Seramore]

nuke benthic

[munkeyinorbit]

A dps gain is a dps gain, that's right. But... boss kills for less than perfect players are not decided by a 0,1% damage increase but rather if they can concentrate a minute longer and play mechanics better. I think players who are not able to play 100% of theoretical dps are better served by more stamina that raid gear has over benthic.

You're wrong.

It isn't 0.1% increase. It's closer to 2% increase in total performance per piece. You are not comparing against mythic 445 gear. You are comparing against 415 BoD gear. We are talking about the beginning of the raid and the gear you are suppose to have. It's even worse if you are a player who has 400 ilvl as most people do.

The gear that drops in heroic is vastly inferior, around 1% increase in total output per piece. This is unacceptable . Forget about mythic raiding because what they do has no bearing against the other 97% of the population. Bethalic gear is cancer because it makes all other forms of content obsolete. Why would someone raid when they could just farm the gear. Sure, we all like to raid but it has a drastic consequence for pug raiding. The number one reason to do it is loot. That's a fact. If the populace can find gear that is better elsewhere then pugs disapear. Bethalic gear can actually kill raiding.

I think that bethalic gear should never have had the flavour stats added on. It should have been on raid gear. The ilvl should have been lower. 410 is a good place. Better than lfr but not quite normal. The gear should have been spread over all new content.

Casuals deserve progression too but not at the expense of killing raiding.

[clevin]

So what if you raid to kill bosses and obtain rewarding loot from the bosses you kill?

If your primary interest is in the gear then, well, you're fucked. But I keep hearing from the people who raid mythic that gear's just a tool... that they raid for the challenge. Well.. if that's true, none of this matters. If it's not... well...

[Deiae]

People being so god damn cancerous kills people raiding but not benthic gear. A lot of people will still raid for all the other slots and to see the raid a few times.

[Big Thanks]

If your primary interest is in the gear then, well, you're fucked. But I keep hearing from the people who raid mythic that gear's just a tool... that they raid for the challenge. Well.. if that's true, none of this matters. If it's not... well...

The "i raid for the gear" argument makes no sense in this situation.

Because the Mythic/ Heroic EP gear is already better in every situation outside the raid. PvP, Mythic+ etc
And...if Benthic is BiS for EP...they already have the best gear possible? So why would they care?

The only explanation is because the raider wants to experience "progression" while raiding in EP. Such a minor thing imo

[Druidzorz]

The cynic in me thinks Bliz created this situation on purpose in order to get longer time spent numbers from heroic/mythic raiders.

What’s more likely though is that they are just incompetent at balancing and will be nerfing said items in the near future. If so, they will probably still be excellent items post-nerf but no longer better than maximum item level items.

Regardless, even if they just let it ride and change nothing, these items will be sub par during the next tier... so raiders will need to get raid drops for the same slots and hold on to them.

Next tier should be next expansion. We are on the third one already :O

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If your primary interest is in the gear then, well, you're fucked. But I keep hearing from the people who raid mythic that gear's just a tool... that they raid for the challenge. Well.. if that's true, none of this matters. If it's not... well...

My raid team is the challenge. They find it hard to move. Raid with bad players, thats the real challenge.

[Has lost its way]

Like I said...I don't really think this gear is "free" - it is a different path to take...either delve deep into raiding or grind like mad....checked out the vendor today. Seems you can upgrade your Benthic even to ilv 435...but it costs 350 pearls

Honestly...if you can farm 350 pearls PER slot (on top of the 220 needed to get it to 420 in the first place), you might as well dive into mythic raiding.

Did people ask for catch up mechanisms? Yeah....it is what I have read here. But it doesn't stop here...the moment 8.2 hit, people started complaining how alt-unfriendly this patch would be. Which I don't even agree upon...imho you should have a main being called a main for a reason.

So for everyone asking for a straight, linear gear up path, there is somebody who wants his alts to be insta high ilv - and I disagree with both...so now we have even more opinions on this. (while people here claim they are already now decked out in BiS in several slots, I am barely at ilv 408...but I can see how this is a core problem..it is so much anecdotal evidence....I honestly have no clue where your truly average player sits and how they go about to get their gear)

I have other issues with the TBC path of gearing...especially since I went through all of it...and attunements were a part of it that I disliked...well...I disliked the part were they weren't accountwide.

Finally...thank you for being very level headed with your replies and not getting all personal and flaming. Tends to get more and more rare here.

I guess I just like content rewarding based on difficulty and not repetition.

To each their own at least classic will be closer to what I want.

[Charge me Doctor]

Are you seriously comparing TBC dungeons to daily quests? Like, seriously? Even today people are wiping countless times there and leaving in tears. And that's with LoL mode and ZOMG characters. TBC dungeons were always hard. Doable, but on level of M+15. They requires skill, gear and good group composition. Daily quests require nothing, it's just time spent = free gear. The only thing that is worse is BoE gear.

It's funny to me that people used to say that about vanilla dungeons, now classic beta ended and people moved on to TBC dungeons? HCs weren't hard, unless you was undergeared. I remember tanking half of them using only one hand, because of amount of downtime you had between packs with most healers, and how slowly things died if you didn't wanted to risk it, because of breaking CC one-by-one.

[Ozyorkbourne]

Right. Now, 220 on, say, 4 pieces, enough to really matter and... 880 pearls. That's a lot of farming. Most people won't do it, they'll get all of their pieces to 405 or 410 and call it good. Maybe they upgrade one a bit more but VERY few people will end up with several maxed out pieces.

Most are going for 3 pieces because of being able to craft 440 socket gear after 2 mythic bosses. They use alts to farm pearls to buy the actual BoA gear for socket rolls, then 660 pearls on 1-2 characters isn't that impossible. Especially with emissaries giving 25 pearls.

[Charge me Doctor]

"catch up gear", as the name implies, catches you up to the PREVIOUS TIER of gear - so you are able to CATCH UP with everyone else. It is designed to allow an under-geared alt to CATCH UP (not surpass). It allows someone who missed the previous tier or two to CATCH UP.

How do you feel about BiS crafted gear and/or AH BoEs?

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When WQ gear is the best gear for every single other activity in the game, yeah, some ppl gonna be pissed off.

Passives work only in a raid, if you go into M+ with those equipped you'll get laughed at. So i'm afraid that those players who yell "BiS!" will come to realization that their 425 piece is... just a 425 piece and useless outside of a raid compared to 455 piece or something. And you know what would be fun? No personal loot. Imagine spending fuckton of time to farm pearls only for decent bracers to drop and go away to someone else, because you already have your "BiS" item
Just like when i bought a BoE agi mace on my shaman in cata when baleroc decided to not drop the axe for half of a raid, and when it finally dropped it went to other dude...

[Dopplegager]

They should just put sockets on everything like they used to.

[Vapo]

How do you feel about BiS crafted gear and/or AH BoEs?

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Passives work only in a raid, if you go into M+ with those equipped you'll get laughed at. So i'm afraid that those players who yell "BiS!" will come to realization that their 425 piece is... just a 425 piece and useless outside of a raid compared to 455 piece or something. And you know what would be fun? No personal loot. Imagine spending fuckton of time to farm pearls only for decent bracers to drop and go away to someone else, because you already have your "BiS" item
Just like when i bought a BoE agi mace on my shaman in cata when baleroc decided to not drop the axe for half of a raid, and when it finally dropped it went to other dude...

This is sim WITHOUT the nazjatar bonus active. You NEED your gloves to roll socket to be better than the benthic gloves for example.


and with bonus:

[Charge me Doctor]

This is sim WITHOUT the nazjatar bonus active. You NEED your gloves to roll socket to be better than the benthic gloves for example.

You also need your benthic item to roll a socket, i currently sit at 20 tokens spent just to get one crit damage boot and have no intent on continuing that gamble bullshit (haven't seen other pieces roll a socket either, on the other hand i've got two 415+ items from M+ with sockets), because it's not worth it.



Ignore baseline ranking, because it's a 415 bracer with +120int socket, off fucking course it's almost on top of the list

[Vapo]

You also need your benthic item to roll a socket, i currently sit at 20 tokens spent just to get one crit damage boot and have no intent on continuing that gamble bullshit (haven't seen other pieces roll a socket either, on the other hand i've got two 415+ items from M+ with sockets), because it's not worth it.



Ignore baseline ranking, because it's a 415 bracer with +120int socket, off fucking course it's almost on top of the list

i have all my 4 pieces + alternative belt with sockets and ready to go. Getting them roll socket is super easy because you can feed dozens of rolls a day depending on how many alts you bother to do 2-3 WQs a day. I think most i used was for my belt(the dmg proc one) around 20 rolls. You get quite a bit from doing basic questline + pearl WQs.