Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Machismo]

But did you say it with racist intent? Or were you just trying to be insulting? It makes a difference.

That's an idiotic argument. "Was he racist on accident, or racist on purpose?"

Trying to be insulting by saying racists hit, is still being racist, and saying racist shit.

[solinari6]

1)
Omar created another stir when she tweeted that support for Israel in the US Congress was “all about the Benjamins,” suggesting that the pro-Israel lobby AIPAC was buying off American politicians. This smacked of the well-worn conspiracy theory that Jewish financiers buy off American politicians

“I want to talk about the political influence in this country that says it is okay to push for allegiance to a foreign country,”

“She may think she is only criticizing Israel and its policies,” Deborah Lipstadt, an Emory University professor and leading scholar of anti-Semitism, told Jewish Insider. “But one cannot ignore the fact that she is relying on traditional anti-Semitic tropes to do so.”
Strike one
.

I think this is dangerous. Because compare these 3 statements:
1) The drug lobby is buying off congressmen to further their agenda
2) The NRA is buying off congressment to further their agenda
3) AIPAC is buying off congressment to further their agenda

All 3 of these can be true (and probably are) but only #3 is somehow verboten, because it is "anti-Semite". Is it just plain not OK to call out AIPAC lobbying? I mean, by definition, they are a lobbying group, and we all know that lobbying groups give congressmen money so they will vote their way.

[kaelleria]

Why is this even a discussion? Trump is racist. People have know about it since the 70's.

[downnola]

But did you say it with racist intent? Or were you just trying to be insulting? It makes a difference.

How does it make a difference? That's not how it works, lol.

[Edge-]

But did you say it with racist intent? Or were you just trying to be insulting? It makes a difference.

If you're using someones race/ethnicity as an insult, you're making a racist insult and are very likely some flavor of racist. Period.

Folks who aren't racist don't do that.

[Edge-]

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4...s-how-historys

"A chant like 'Send her back!' 'is ugly and dangerous, and it is the inevitable consequence of President Trump’s demagoguery," Amash tweeted Thursday. "This is how history’s worst episodes begin. We must not allow this man to take us to such a place."

At least FORMER Republicans will call out how dangerous this rhetoric is.

[Independent voter]

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4...s-how-historys



At least FORMER Republicans will call out how dangerous this rhetoric is.

Many republicans have denounced Trump's remarks.

[Edge-]

Many republicans have denounced Trump's remarks.

And handful, and very tepidly. They're not treating this with the seriousness required, and none have the spine to do anything about it. Hence why the entire Republican House voted against the resolution condemning Trumps language the other day.

And their pushback isn't unnoticed and unpunished.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...raiser-1419204

The Mooch said something and Republicans got offended, so they disinvited him from a fundraiser.

[Edge-]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...idApp_New_Post

Donald Trump and his press secretary were directly involved in discussions that led to an illegal hush-money payment to Stormy Daniels during the 2016 election campaign, according to the FBI.

A court filing unsealed on Thursday said Trump and Hope Hicks spoke repeatedly with Michael Cohen, Trump’s longterm legal fixer, as Daniels – also known as Stephanie Clifford – threatened to sell her story of an affair with Trump to the media.

“I believe that at least some of these communications concerned the need to prevent Clifford from going public,” an FBI agent wrote, in an application for a search warrant.

Cohen later admitted to making payments totalling $280,000 through a shell company to buy the silence of Daniels and the former Playboy model Karen McDougal, who also alleged she had an affair with Trump.

The newly unsealed filings said Trump and Hicks spoke on the telephone with Cohen on the evening of 8 October 2016, a day after the leak of an NBC recording of Trump boasting that he grabbed women by their genitals.

The new disclosure raised the possibility that Hicks lied to the FBI. A footnote said Hicks told an agent in an interview that “she did not learn about the allegations made by Clifford until early November 2016”. Hicks has denied wrongdoing.

[Independent voter]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...idApp_New_Post

Isn't that because they used campaign money to pay her off. That's the illegal part?

[Edge-]

Isn't that because they used campaign money to pay her off. That's the illegal part?

Potentially, but more just a reminder that Trump lies about literally everything and can't be trusted to tell the truth on anything.

[solinari6]

Isn't that because they used campaign money to pay her off. That's the illegal part?

No, I don't think it matters if it was Trump's money or campaign money. By law, you need to report all campaign expenditures. That was left out, obviously. That's why they were trying to argue that it wasn't because of the campaign, he just didn't want Melania to find out.

(I think)

[Xeones]

Many republicans have denounced Trump's remarks.

Before he became president yea.

But how many voted with the democrats in the house. 4, and 1 Amash. Republicans make it clear where they stand, and this just isn't a big deal to them.

[Felya]

But did you say it with racist intent? Or were you just trying to be insulting? It makes a difference.

Because the issue with racism isn’t race, but the treatment there of. People who say racism doesn’t apply here, don’t actually understand the issue. Hint, it’s not the race of the person being attacked, it’s the attack.

[Endus]

But did you say it with racist intent? Or were you just trying to be insulting? It makes a difference.

The only "difference" this makes is in how self-aware the racist is about their racist beliefs.

If you said something racist with intent to be insulting, that's the definition of "racist intent". Whether you're aware that you're racist is a completely separate factor, but lack of self-awareness isn't a defense, it just means you're a bit of an idiot on top of being racist.

[Felya]

I think this is dangerous. Because compare these 3 statements:
1) The drug lobby is buying off congressmen to further their agenda
2) The NRA is buying off congressment to further their agenda
3) AIPAC is buying off congressment to further their agenda

All 3 of these can be true (and probably are) but only #3 is somehow verboten, because it is "anti-Semite". Is it just plain not OK to call out AIPAC lobbying? I mean, by definition, they are a lobbying group, and we all know that lobbying groups give congressmen money so they will vote their way.

It’s not antisemite... his avatar actually is. He is scapegoating Jews to protect Trump, even through unlike the 4 women Trump attacked, he isn’t even an American. Just sowing division, while being thousands of miles and an ocean away.

[solinari6]

If you said something racist with intent to be insulting, that's the definition of "racist intent". Whether you're aware that you're racist is a completely separate factor, but lack of self-awareness isn't a defense, it just means you're a bit of an idiot on top of being racist.

It reminds me of the conversations we had about sexual harassment in the 90s. Men may have not intended to create a hostile work environment, but they were. Now men realize that there are things you just don't say to women in the workplace. Intent was irrelevant.

[Felya]

If you said something racist with intent to be insulting, that's the definition of "racist intent". Whether you're aware that you're racist is a completely separate factor, but lack of self-awareness isn't a defense, it just means you're a bit of an idiot on top of being racist.

No, they do have the self awareness to know they are wrong. They just do it anyway, because racist.

[Endus]

No, they do have the self awareness to know they are wrong. They just do it anyway, because racist.

Oh, I agree that most of these people are well aware that they're racists.

I'm just pointing out that "I'm an idiot and don't understand my own viewpoint" isn't a defense against being identified as racist. And that's what freefolk's argument was; that maybe people's idiocy meant they weren't racist.

And that's not how it works. That makes them dumb and racist, not dumb or racist.

[Felya]

Oh, I agree that most of these people are well aware that they're racists.

I'm just pointing out that "I'm an idiot and don't understand my own viewpoint" isn't a defense against being identified as racist. And that's what freefolk's argument was; that maybe people's idiocy meant they weren't racist.

And that's not how it works. That makes them dumb and racist, not dumb or racist.

That’s the thing, they figured out that instead of being labeled dumb, they call them selfs woke independents or classic liberal. Like all the shit @Ghostpanther was doing before the election, that landed me on ignore for calling out, and all of the both sides bullshit. It’s why the common weapon has become whataboutism, as if that doesn’t mean Trump is an amalgamation if all negative qualities of former presidents and none of the good ones.