Americans say debate has grown more toxic an ‘heated’ rhetoric could lead to violence

[Spectral]

Yes, I think the LA riots would be a better example. Those were rough as shit, and a lot of people got hurt and died.

At some point, one of the white nationalist rallies is going to get a lot more violent. Since firearms are so easy to get, that's going to be the likely weapon of choice. Either that, or another car.

Agree. We've seen from attacks like Nice that cars and trucks can cause massive damage. Not trying to sidestep Charlottesville, just noting that the scale can be much worse with even a little planning. I actually recall arguments I used to have with my dad where we'd talk about terrorism - my claim was (and actually remains) that there can't be that many people interested in committing acts of terror because it's so easy to just rent a U-Haul truck and do something terrible. At the time, I don't think there had been any such attacks, but it's such an obvious route.

That said, those strike me as more likely to be the sort of planned things (even if they're slapdash planning) that are less likely than the escalation of punches to melee weapons to guns. A lot of people are armed. You don't need advance planning for one of these stupid melee skirmishes to get a lot worse real quick.

[Machismo]

Agree. We've seen from attacks like Nice that cars and trucks can cause massive damage. Not trying to sidestep Charlottesville, just noting that the scale can be much worse with even a little planning. I actually recall arguments I used to have with my dad where we'd talk about terrorism - my claim was (and actually remains) that there can't be that many people interested in committing acts of terror because it's so easy to just rent a U-Haul truck and do something terrible. At the time, I don't think there had been any such attacks, but it's such an obvious route.

That said, those strike me as more likely to be the sort of planned things (even if they're slapdash planning) that are less likely than the escalation of punches to melee weapons to guns. A lot of people are armed. You don't need advance planning for one of these stupid melee skirmishes to get a lot worse real quick.

Honestly, if he hadn't hit the car, he would have caused a lot more damage in Charlottesville.

I think the biggest deterrent to terrorism, is that you are going to get caught, and you are going to go to prison for the rest of your life. There's simply no good way to not get caught, security and surveillance are simply far better.

[Kokolums]

You have to understand Lenin, Stalin etc and his cronies overthrew the government with promises of equality and social justice. Then they installed a brutal dictatorship instead and killed or jailed most of the key people that helped them get there. So when they see the left in America and Europe heading in that direction, its deeply personal. They hear promises of equality and social justice and they equate it to soviet broken promises. They want payback for the blood spilled. And they sure as hell don't want a soviet reborn in the west controlling a massive nuclear stockpile.

They are coming.

[Spectral]

You can see how Russia is stacked heavy facing Europe, and they've been running training exercises on invading Europe as well. Honestly this looks like the biggest Blitz in human history making the nazis look like childs play. Russia and China will blitz all of Europe and both US coasts at the same time. Because it works.

What they NEED is a civil war to tear the US in half to make the US too dysfunctional to put up a defense. And that civil war is coming.

This is just about the most wildly implausible set of claims about how things would play out that I can imagine. This wildly underestimates the capability of American naval and air power. Attempting to "blitz" the American mainland is a recipe for having hundreds of thousands of soldiers at the bottom of their respective oceans.

[Machismo]

You have to understand Lenin, Stalin etc and his cronies overthrew the government with promises of equality and social justice. Then they installed a brutal dictatorship instead and killed or jailed most of the key people that helped them get there. So when they see the left in America and Europe heading in that direction, its deeply personal. They hear promises of equality and social justice and they equate it to soviet broken promises. They want payback for the blood spilled.

They are coming.

Except that's not what is happening. They were murderous dictators who killed MILLIONS.

Hell, Stalin is still revered by plenty of people.

You are an idiot if you think that is "where the left is headed." Bernie Sanders and his fanboys are millenial socialists... not the reincarnation of Stalin.

[Spectral]

Honestly, if he hadn't hit the car, he would have caused a lot more damage in Charlottesville.

I think the biggest deterrent to terrorism, is that you are going to get caught, and you are going to go to prison for the rest of your life. There's simply no good way to not get caught, security and surveillance are simply far better.

Yeah, it basically takes someone that's willing to commit suicide. A good example of the sort of difference is watching a video of the kind of gang violence shootouts that erupt at parks and such. Yes, people do killed, and it's tragic when innocent civilians get hit, but when guys are planning to get away and not get caught afterwards, they take a lot less chances with their body and they're ready to flee. So you get a hundred rounds exchanged and one guy goes to the hospital to be treated. People that are ready to die are much more dangerous - they take chances, they don't flee, and they hang around to finish off the wounded. Virginia Tech is one horrifying example of that.

[PC2]

You have to understand Lenin, Stalin etc and his cronies overthrew the government with promises of equality and social justice. Then they installed a brutal dictatorship instead and killed or jailed most of the key people that helped them get there. So when they see the left in America and Europe heading in that direction, its deeply personal. They hear promises of equality and social justice and they equate it to soviet broken promises. They want payback for the blood spilled. And they sure as hell don't want a soviet reborn in the west controlling a massive nuclear stockpile.

They are coming.

Russia and China don't want war... The normal 99% of people don't want civil war...

We live in a golden age of humanity in 2019. Have you read the book "Enlightenment Now" by Steven Pinker, that will help inform you on the overall uptrend in positive changes.

[Machismo]

Yeah, it basically takes someone that's willing to commit suicide. A good example of the sort of difference is watching a video of the kind of gang violence shootouts that erupt at parks and such. Yes, people do killed, and it's tragic when innocent civilians get hit, but when guys are planning to get away and not get caught afterwards, they take a lot less chances with their body and they're ready to flee. So you get a hundred rounds exchanged and one guy goes to the hospital to be treated. People that are ready to die are much more dangerous - they take chances, they don't flee, and they hang around to finish off the wounded. Virginia Tech is one horrifying example of that.

And that's why we have yet to see a lot of actual deaths, people are too comfortable to die. Right now, it's street brawls, and "good fun." When people start getting shot, then you will see who is actually serious about it all. When people get shot, you will also see the government much more likely to step in.

[Eveningforest]

We live in a golden age of humanity in 2019. Have you read the book "Enlightenment Now" by Steven Pinker, that will help inform you on the overall uptrend in positive changes.

One of my favorite books (and psychologists) of all time. I will second your recommendation. So many people could really benefit from learning how to put things into perspective.

[Cthulhu 2020]

The right wing believes

You can basically insert any assumption about reality that isn't just an opinion after this statement, and it will be wrong.

- - - Updated - - -

You have to understand Lenin, Stalin etc and his cronies overthrew the government with promises of equality and social justice. Then they installed a brutal dictatorship instead and killed or jailed most of the key people that helped them get there. So when they see the left in America and Europe heading in that direction, its deeply personal. They hear promises of equality and social justice and they equate it to soviet broken promises. They want payback for the blood spilled. And they sure as hell don't want a soviet reborn in the west controlling a massive nuclear stockpile.

They are coming.

You don't have to counter your delusional fear of the rise of communism with absolute and total fascism.

[ringpriest]

Funny thing that one. Democrats don't really talk much about it, while to Republicans, even the President himself, it has become Schrödinger's immigration policy. Somehow, Obama is both used as a gotcha (he deported so many! He built the camps!), while also being famously "weak" on immigration. That's what gets me, as an outsider to the system - I just want politicians to be at least internally consistent in their views, if they can't be bothered to be truthful.

It's funny you should say that...

From Umberto Eco's 'Fourteen typical features of Ur-Fascism',

The enemy is both strong and weak. “By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.”

(Anyone who reviews the full list can scarcely help but to see Donald Trump's regime as a near-textbook exemplar of it.)

[Smitzelplix]

I thought this would fit nicely into this particular thread. A website posts some satire that claims that Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said that US soldiers get paid too much, there was every indication that this was satire, even an image in the article shows a watermark that shows it's satire, but a police officer still responds with a threat of violence and says AOC needs to be shot. This is of course not the first time someone from a law enforcement division has called for violence against those on the left.

https://www.newsweek.com/police-alex...-idiot-1450356

[Machismo]

I thought this would fit nicely into this particular thread. A website posts some satire that claims that Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said that US soldiers get paid too much, there was every indication that this was satire, even an image in the article shows a watermark that shows it's satire, but a police officer still responds with a threat of violence and says AOC needs to be shot. This is of course not the first time someone from a law enforcement division has called for violence against those on the left.

https://www.newsweek.com/police-alex...-idiot-1450356

If he's not fired immediately, then his department is complicit in his behavior.

[Smitzelplix]

If he's not fired immediately, then his department is complicit in his behavior.

This part of the story that I quoted makes me think he's going to get disciplinary action at best. We'll have to see if this story is followed up on later.

Rispoli, according to NOLA, has been on the Gretna police force since 2005. The department's police Chief Arthur Lawson told the local news site that the post was "disturbing" and appeared to violate the department's social media policy. Although he said he did not believe it was an actual threat against the congresswoman, he promised the situation would be dealt with.

[Machismo]

This part of the story that I quoted makes me think he's going to get disciplinary action at best. We'll have to see if this story is followed up on later.

They will deal with it internally, and say they do not publicly discuss administrative actions on personal issues.

We've seen that dance, before.

[breslin]

violence is inevitable of any democratic society. Who knows if we are there yet.

[Kiri]

It's funny you should say that...

From Umberto Eco's 'Fourteen typical features of Ur-Fascism',

(Anyone who reviews the full list can scarcely help but to see Donald Trump's regime as a near-textbook exemplar of it.)

Yeah, his rhetoric is full of that, and other contradictions. The sad part is that it certifiably works, with his ardents lapping it up without question.

[Wyrt]

It's funny you should say that...

From Umberto Eco's 'Fourteen typical features of Ur-Fascism',

That's is pretty much a perfect explanation of the Trump Admin.

[Slant]

That's is pretty much a perfect explanation of the Trump Admin.

Many of those points existed before Trump, though.

[Felya]

Has the debate grown more toxic or shifted to a platform that has always been toxic?