Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ...
2
3
4
5
6
LastLast
  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    “erases other cultures and depicts the United States as the dominant American country.” The school suggests using “U.S. citizen” or “person from the U.S.” as substitutes.

    If anything, "American" is more inclusive since, technically, it could refer to anyone from North or South America.

    I'd be very curious as to the reasoning behind some of those other silly examples. "We can't say 'cake walk' because some people are too poor to afford cake, damn it!"
    American they are, American is not used in that way though.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    The only people I've heard swear that "American" doesn't refer to people from the United States are people from Europe.

    And yes, that includes times on this forum. Nobody from either of the Americas seems to care.

    I think some Europeans wanted a way to "well actually" Americans to try and take them down a peg in their world standing by looking more worldly than them.

    "Oh you think you're so big, WELL ACTUALLY 'Americans' refers to ALL of America, not just the United States, you corn-fed hick!"

    A sentiment along those lines.
    Yeah, from a descriptivist perspective on language, approximately no one uses the term "American" an anything other than the demonym for the people of the United States. Per Wiki:
    In modern English, American generally refers to persons or things related to the United States of America; among native English speakers this usage is almost universal, with any other use of the term requiring specification.[1] However, this usage is seen by some as a semantic "misappropriation" by those who argue that "American" should be widened in English to also include people or things from anywhere in the American continents.[2][3]

    The word can be used as either an adjective or a noun (viz. a demonym). In adjectival use, it means "of or relating to the United States"; for example, "Elvis Presley was an American singer" or "the man prefers American English". In its noun form, the word generally means a resident or citizen of the US, or occasionally someone whose ethnic identity is simply "American". The noun is rarely used in English to refer to people not connected to the United States.[1] When used with a grammatical qualifier, the adjective American can mean "of or relating to the Americas", as in Latin American or Indigenous American. Less frequently, the adjective can take this meaning without a qualifier, as in "American Spanish dialects and pronunciation differ by country", or the name of the Organization of American States. A third use of the term pertains specifically to the indigenous peoples of the Americas, for instance, "In the 16th century, many Americans died from imported diseases during the European conquest".
    So, yeah, there are apparently a few contexts where "American" would be referring to the larger category of the Americas, but for the most part, everyone knows that "American" refers to people from the United States. At the UN:
    Use of the term American for U.S. nationals is common at the United Nations, and financial markets in the United States are referred to as "American financial markets".[46]
    I think this is pretty strong evidence that it's not just my local bias - this is how pretty much the whole world uses the term "American".

    To take it a step further into the culture war, the only people I've seen object to referring to United States citizens as "Americans" are people that have an axe to grind against the United States. In particular, there seems to be a chunk of obnoxious academics that think using "USian" shows how cosmopolitan they are

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Yeah, from a descriptivist perspective on language, approximately no one uses the term "American" an anything other than the demonym for the people of the United States. Per Wiki:

    So, yeah, there are apparently a few contexts where "American" would be referring to the larger category of the Americas, but for the most part, everyone knows that "American" refers to people from the United States. At the UN:

    I think this is pretty strong evidence that it's not just my local bias - this is how pretty much the whole world uses the term "American".

    To take it a step further into the culture war, the only people I've seen object to referring to United States citizens as "Americans" are people that have an axe to grind against the United States. In particular, there seems to be a chunk of obnoxious academics that think using "USian" shows how cosmopolitan they are
    I’ve had southern American acquaintances annoyed over the exclusivity of American for people from the USA

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Kontinuum View Post
    Fragile Reich Wing ego whinging session 876.

    Technically speaking...the university is correct. Trying to change this is also an exercise in futility. The term is internationally linguistically ingrained and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it...AS.LONG.AS.PEOPLE.DON'T.FORGET.THAT.IN.FACT.THERE'S.MORE.IN.AMERICA.THAN.JUST.THE.UNI TED.STATES.

    It also says people "should avoid" not "must avoid".

  5. #65
    This is barely sanctioned by the university, the article reads as if the United doesn't care and gave a council of 6 people a title and a uni letterhead, and agreed to give them some website space (which is down).

    It's also utterly meaningless.

  6. #66
    Titan
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    America's Hat
    Posts
    14,128
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    Ah, something new for the perpetually outraged right wingers to be outraged about. Don't you ever get exhausted about being outraged by every minor thing?
    This isn't really worth getting outraged over since we know that most schools don't have the testicular fortitude to enforce such egregious violations of an individuals liberty. Compelled speech is such a divisive and toxic subject, and that's basically what this whole example is, but they are as hell can't criminally enforce it. It's merely guidelines, not laws. Students can break them all they want, if the school tries to expel students over it, their asses will get sued into the dirt.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Gotta say, in my interactions with people from central / South America as well as Geography related professions, not once have I heard the "We're Americans too!" complaint. people from Belize want to be Belizians. Peru? Peruvians. Guatemala? Guatemalans. If they want to identify with their region, with in groups it may be Americans but with people outside their groups its been variations of Central / South Americans. The Americas is also suitable.

    People from the U.S have been Americans since the start because its basically the same pattern as the rest of the countries. Its not meant as a slight against the rest of the 2 continents. Calling us United Statsian is just flat out clunky and odd. Yanks could work, but it also has been used as a slur against people form the Northern US.
    You must be mostly interacting with younger people. When my mom learned geography there was no North/South America. It was just taught as one continent, the Americas. Seven continents (with the N/S America split) is definitely the most common interpretation nowadays, but that wasn't always the case.

    I remember many years ago when I learned all of this she definitely voiced the opinion that it was silly for US citizens to hog the moniker since everyone south of the border should be considered Americans as well.

  8. #68
    Anyone can become American.

  9. #69
    It would seem that United States of American is kind of clunky, and just shortening it to American is far simpler and easier to understand than alternatives. Claiming to not understand or be offended by the use of American to describe citizens of the United States just comes across as intellectually dishonest, since it takes something like to the age of 6 to understand that American can both refer to someone from the US and someone from the Americas (which itself often only refers to North America) but it is almost exclusively used as a shorthand for the former.

    Besides, we could find any number of naming conventions or word usage to be pseudo offended by, like why does the USA get sole use of the United States, that kind of feels like it limits other people from banding together or doesn't give enough inclusion to places that have states that are also united. Or how people from Massachusetts are called Baystaters, it would seem like nearly every state, especially states along prominent water features, would have a bay making Massachusetts claim to being the baystaters to be exclusive of all those people who live on bays, like in Tampa or San Francisco or Seattle.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by freefolk View Post
    Berkely, California just passed a law that changed a couple dozen words. For example, you can't say "manhole cover" anymore, you have to say "maintenance hole".

    Google it, if you're interested.

    Who said you "can't"...

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    You know I have spoken with many people from Latin America that get annoyed at the entire fact that "America" is solely saved for people in the United States are America.

    It is like if there was a place called "United States of Europe" and everyone ignored the fact French people are also European.
    Too bad. Places are usually referred to as their country name, not a continental name.

    There are more countries that are not members of the European Union in Europe than members, does that mean the name should be changed?

  12. #72
    Whilst it technically is exclusionary and I suppose technically inaccurate, this seems a bit much. Don't get me wrong, I never liked the term "America" or "Americans" to describe the USA and its citizens, I always felt that it was technically inaccurate, any maybe a better, more accurate term should be used. This however seems like a bit of an overreaction. I get that many of these people are well intentioned, and whilst some may see it as a way to stick it to arrogant 'Mericans, others will see it as a progressive step, it looks to me like they are trying a bit too hard. This goes for some of their other rules to a slightly lesser extent.

    I don't know how these might be enforced, my worry with these types is that some will seek to enforce them with an iron fist, as there are some who just want to ban things then punish those who transgress (we have seen what some far left student activists are willing to do in the name of "progress"), an excuse to exert some sort of dominance (some of the more radical element, I am convinced, are just on a power trip, who want to dominate and do harm but have enough awareness that they need a "justification" to will strive to engineer scenarios where this will happen and they will get all the justification they need to destroy people), though that certainly doesn't describe them all (for most I am sure that this is a sincere attempt at making it a better environment), I just hope people aren't too fanatical. I always get uneasy when people take it upon themselves to dictate language and go straight for a ban list, or an avoid list in this case (I hope it doesn't descend into a ban list, though I have no doubt that some radical elements will try to use it as such).

    Like I say, I get that this is generally well intentioned. Aside from the worries I listed above, I also worry that they might come across as ridiculous and end up working against their own stated interests. Some of the stuff on that list I actually agree with (well, I never like the idea of a list, but in terms of individual items, I agree with some) and generally try to do that, at least in a professional capacity. Some of the other things added on though, it seems a bit like splitting hairs and it can be difficult to take such people seriously at times.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gelannerai View Post


    Remember, legally no one sane takes Tucker Carlson seriously.

  13. #73
    Stealthed Defender unbound's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    All that moves is easily heard in the void.
    Posts
    6,798
    Quote Originally Posted by spanishninja View Post
    before anybody goes "derp derp it's a canpus reform article derp derp!", the text includes link to the university's own words.
    lol...well, even a broken clock is right twice a day. But it is good that they did indeed provide a link...did you bother to open it and read all of it? It's only 8 pages long and not jam-packed.

    Of course, this isn't a case where campus reform is outright lying. They are just being disingenuous...I love they way the put Avoid in quotes to make it scary.

    The document lists out words that are unintentionally racist or non-inclusive. In the case of "American", it simply points out that there is a lot to America than just the US. Here is the entire entry for those too lazy to read the actual document:

    The Americas encompass a lot more than the United States. There is South America, Central America, Mexico, Canada, and the Caribbean just to name a few of 42 countries in total. That's why the word "americano" in Spanish can refer to anything on the American continent. Yet, when we talk about "Americans" in the United States, we're usually just referring to people from the United States. This erases other cultures and depicts the United States as the dominant American country.
    OMG! This is actually...reasonable isn't it?

    Read the whole guide. You will find a lot of interesting things that you probably didn't know. You can do it...you can still learn new things, and you will find that the guide isn't nearly as scary as the campus reform article tried to make it sound.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by stross01 View Post
    Too bad. Places are usually referred to as their country name, not a continental name.

    There are more countries that are not members of the European Union in Europe than members, does that mean the name should be changed?
    Technically speaking, there are more EU countries in Europe than not EU ones. There are 44 European countries, and 27 (28 if the UK fucks up Brexit and ends up staying, or Scotland goes indy and ends up staying or whatnot). Of the 17 that are not members, there's a bunch that are practically members, but they are too small to get representation at institutional level, illustrious examples are things like Lichtenstein, Andorra, Monaco, Vatican City (a fucking a neighborhood of Rome basically), San Marino. All these countries are practically landlocked by the EU, use the Euro as a currency and defer in defense, foreign policy, regulatory policy etc to the EU. Or they are countries that while are independent nations are practically really either run by the country they are landlocked in (San Marino and Vatican City) or co-ruled by their neighbors...like Andorra whose heads of state are the President of France and a Bishop in Spain.

    So basically, what you are really left with...is 11 (10 if the UK fails at leaving) non EU countries vs 27 (28 if the UK fails at leaving) EU countries.

    So when you say European...you are statistically probably referring to a citizen of the European Union as there 742 million people in Europe, of which 445 million (511 if Brexit fails) live in the EU.
    Last edited by Mihalik; 2019-07-22 at 09:13 AM.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    Won't somebody anybody think of the children?

    Like seriously isn't college the place we are supposed to have open minds open to new ideas and then being challenged about them so that before they give birth out into the real world we aren't all dragged down.

    Seriously safe places from words, now safe places for the ideas of new words or rather concepts that challenge the status quo.

    I have an idea how about showing some tolerance and going unless or until something is harming someone, I'll just take a look at these ideas and go "Meh, No thanks" and move on.

    I would say I am very liberal, but I am going to go on saying Mailman, and Manhole, and Actor when I am referencing a male or female. Doesn't mean everyone else is wrong, it just means if I prefer my way, ill keep it.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Calling people nutcases isn't very nice man.
    Man doubles in meaning to describe humans (i.e. mankind, Imperium of Man), at least that's how I've always interpreted it.

    Human
    Woman

    I mean even our taxonomic name, Homo sapiens, literally translates to "wise man" in Latin.

  16. #76
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    phasing...
    Posts
    25,556
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Fragile Reich Wing ego whinging session 876.

    Technically speaking...the university is correct. Trying to change this is also an exercise in futility. The term is internationally linguistically ingrained and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it...AS.LONG.AS.PEOPLE.DON'T.FORGET.THAT.IN.FACT.THERE'S.MORE.IN.AMERICA.THAN.JUST.THE.UNI TED.STATES.

    It also says people "should avoid" not "must avoid".
    "American" in North and South America almost exclusively refers to a citizen of the United States because the term "American" is otherwise pretty nebulous; it'd be the equivalent of trying to use "Eurasian" to define both someone living in China and someone living in Spain.

    Besides, there's no other real "term" for a resident of the United States in the English language anyway. "United Statesian" sounds pretty effin' stupid.


    At any rate, I also take umbrage with anyone arguing "America" should be a single continent. It'd instantly become the second largest continent connected by a spit of land a hair under 50 miles across. There's a (much) better case for Europe and Asia to be considered "one continent" than the two easily distinguished landmasses of North and South America.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2019-07-22 at 09:56 AM.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    You must be mostly interacting with younger people. When my mom learned geography there was no North/South America. It was just taught as one continent, the Americas. Seven continents (with the N/S America split) is definitely the most common interpretation nowadays, but that wasn't always the case.

    I remember many years ago when I learned all of this she definitely voiced the opinion that it was silly for US citizens to hog the moniker since everyone south of the border should be considered Americans as well.
    It's a regional thing, some countries consider the Americas to be one continent, while others consider North and South America to be seperate continents. Same thing with Australia for example, in some countries Australia is identified as a single continent while others mark the region as Oceania and include all of the surrounding islands like New Guinea and Polynesia.

    There's an argument to be made that Europe and Asia (and even Africa) aren't seperate continents (Eurasia or Afro-Eurasia).

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    You know I have spoken with many people from Latin America that get annoyed at the entire fact that "America" is solely saved for people in the United States are America.

    It is like if there was a place called "United States of Europe" and everyone ignored the fact French people are also European.
    So what? They get annoyed, Why do you care?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by unbound View Post
    lol...well, even a broken clock is right twice a day. But it is good that they did indeed provide a link...did you bother to open it and read all of it? It's only 8 pages long and not jam-packed.

    Of course, this isn't a case where campus reform is outright lying. They are just being disingenuous...I love they way the put Avoid in quotes to make it scary.

    The document lists out words that are unintentionally racist or non-inclusive. In the case of "American", it simply points out that there is a lot to America than just the US. Here is the entire entry for those too lazy to read the actual document:



    OMG! This is actually...reasonable isn't it?

    Read the whole guide. You will find a lot of interesting things that you probably didn't know. You can do it...you can still learn new things, and you will find that the guide isn't nearly as scary as the campus reform article tried to make it sound.
    Personaly I just don't like being told what to do by people who's authority I don't recognise. I especialy hate over reach from these sort of body's, there little more than advisory committee's but often try to play tin pot.

    I had a similar situation at my college a decade ago now where they put out the edict that students couldn't smoke in the foot path in front of the college as it up sets the residents. So me and my freinds made the point of smoking out there, eventualy they attempted to give us all formal warnings, Luckly my uncle was a solicitor with a similar mind set to me when it comes to these "committee's" and we threatened the college with a law suite as the foot path was public property. At which point they shat the bed and dropped the warning, but they didn't forget it and tried endlessly to pin warnings on me, and tbh I did all I could to walk the line where my behaviours caused them endless irritation whilst never crossing it.

    And it was entirly out of spite for a group given power over me that I didn't recognise. I can only imagine if I was still in college today me and my freinds would be using the most un inclusive language possible simply because they had the Gaul to tell us other wise.

    And that's the thing really, you will always have a section of society, especially at university where rebellion is the nature of youth who will always do the opposite of what there told simply because the act of undermining these soft authority's is in there nature.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by freefolk View Post



    College students are very left wing as a group.
    lol WTF is wrong with these kids

  20. #80
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    USA, Ohio
    Posts
    24,112
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    lol WTF is wrong with these kids
    Obviously, listening to the wrong people.
    " If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher.." - Abraham Lincoln
    The Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to - prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms..” - Samuel Adams

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •