Increasing Tank Threat

[iamthedevil]

Are you honestly trying to argue that having to CC something makes it difficult? For real?

I didn't realize it was hard to press the Sheep button. My bad.

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Then why are you here? Honest question.. as Forums literally exist as an avenue to discuss things with other people.

*headdesk*

When did I say anything was difficult? Are you replying to the right person? The first thing I said was pretty much I don't agree with the entirety of vanilla trash being "faceroll." Maybe you should take off those normal tinted sunglasses because you can't see. Piecing other things said together, i disagree with someone thinking that a fresh 60 mage could solo an entire 60 dungeons trash.

[huldu]

Watching people arguing about how "difficult" the game is makes me laugh. It's world of warcraft we're talking about here. They made it to the top by making one of the most casual mmos in history. Even vanilla was a *JOKE* compared to the competition back then. There was a reason wow got so popular and not just because of the lore and warcraft itself. It was so accessible to *everyone*. The only remotely challenging content the game has to offer right now is the m+ and mythic raids. That's it. It's so bad they had to "increase" the difficulty in tiers over many years. It's pathetic to be honest.

Why stop at mythic raiding and not bring on mythic raiding+ while they're at it /roll_eyes. Blizzard is just a mere shell of what it used to be. They're living on the game titles and the Blizzard logo - but people have started to have second thoughts about that, especially with BfA being as bad as it is.

[Christhammer]

Very good change! It's not often i notice it, but it does happen in M+. When a DH jumps into a group of mobs he usually gets aggro on some of them, same with a Ret Paladin using wings. So this will definitely help.

[Sensa1]

Watching people arguing about how "difficult" the game is makes me laugh. It's world of warcraft we're talking about here. They made it to the top by making one of the most casual mmos in history. Even vanilla was a *JOKE* compared to the competition back then. There was a reason wow got so popular and not just because of the lore and warcraft itself. It was so accessible to *everyone*. The only remotely challenging content the game has to offer right now is the m+ and mythic raids. That's it. It's so bad they had to "increase" the difficulty in tiers over many years. It's pathetic to be honest.

Why stop at mythic raiding and not bring on mythic raiding+ while they're at it /roll_eyes. Blizzard is just a mere shell of what it used to be. They're living on the game titles and the Blizzard logo - but people have started to have second thoughts about that, especially with BfA being as bad as it is.

You're pretty much spot on in your comment. Neither Classic nor Retail are difficult per se.

There are differences though. I consider Classic more challenging rather than difficult. There was at least some risk of dying doing world content and dungeons weren't a complete AOE face roll. While people always claim that rotations and boss mechanics were easy peazy in Classic they forget that the limited boss mechanics were partly the result of the limited toolkit players had, including debuff limit, threat management etc, to respond to the boss mechanics. The difficultly in raids has to be considered in relative terms not just by comparing number of mechanics. If Classic was as easy as people claim, relatively speaking when compared to today's game, a whole lot more guilds would have cleared BWL and Naxx.

The only thing truly challenging in Retail is those things you site. The better balance of "relatively" challenging elements in Classic, imho, resulted in both a more well rounded and rewarding experience.

But at the end the day the, admittedly, rather pointless debate would be better served if people spoke in terms of challenges rather than difficulty.

[avx81]

Very good change! It's not often i notice it, but it does happen in M+. When a DH jumps into a group of mobs he usually gets aggro on some of them, same with a Ret Paladin using wings. So this will definitely help.

This change is trash and just a horrible band aid. The underlying problem is that tank damage is not scaling at anywhere near the same rate as dps. This is a never ending problem due to scaling issues. What they should be doing is focusing on tank damage. Right now prot warriors and prot paladins are a bit out of control with the damage they are capable of and their mitigation this season. We should have seen a tuning pass by today. I seriously think they have no idea what to do and they are to focused on fixing their miserable design in 9.0. Rather than going over what each spec needs and adjusting them they are just throwing a bandaid over the entire issue because they cant be bothered to pull out a calculator.

I am seriously confused on how they can create naz and mechagon but they are incapable of tuning classes. It's almost like they just threw their hands up in the air and said screw it this garbage is broken we will fix it in another expansion.

[Kalisandra]

That made me lol.

it doesn't happen often but there have been times during this xpac where I've done my entire fucking tank damage rotation (damage = threat) and still have some mobs slip off onto a melee, it just happens when some idiot bursts a single mob without tricks or something. You literally cannot generate anymore threat than pressing all your damage buttons, it's not a case of "just keep aggro". Then you've got to consider that all tank reactive buttons like FR, LotP etc are all on the GCD, so sometimes you have to skip pressing a damage (threat) button in order to survive.

Of course none of this is a problem if your DPS aren't brain dead and actually use their toolkit properly.

What toolkit would that be? Two classes have tricks/misdirect (Rogues and Hunters). Mages have a complete threat dump on a long CD. A pally can bubble, and assuming the tank is on the ball they'll have some time to pick the mob back up. Other than that there are no 'tools'.

In this day and age, everything is expected to be cleared fast. Sitting and waiting for the tank to drop their AoE effect, and then hit each and every mob properly before starting AoE is absurd, but that's what you seem to be asking of those specs that have high snap aggro (usually also very rng as well, so there's no predicting it). You're basically asking Elementals to leave their AoE toolkit at home, and probably a number of other specs as well.

[Cthulhu fhtagn]

Currently you can play perfectly as a tank and a dps just happens to crit enough with their neck abilities and you lose threat. In aoe situations losing threat cause your abilities don't crit at all and another dps crits on all his strikes isnt really fun gameplay when it is the exact thing you should be doing but you're just unlucky. More likely on bears whose damage ramps.

This buff is completely in line with what they want tanking to be in bfa, if you disagree with that this isn't really a place where anything changed.

[czarek]

Em keeping threat as tank wasnt a problem since TBC at all tanks specs till they nerfed in BFA and now its back

[greatmefisto]

And yet BfA sold record amounts of copies, which they did report. And of course, it was "debunked" as untruthful or warped.

You do realise that record amounts of copies sold on day 1 (and this is what Blizzard reported if I recall correctly) doesn't equal the amount of copies sold ever? How do people still confuse these things.

[ls-]

People also keep forgetting that Blizz greatly reduced the amount of bonus threat we're generating when using our taunts in 8.1, it's a very controversial change among tanks, but it's still manageable, but because people's DPS and esp burst dmg keep getting higher and higher, now that 8.1 taunt change started to backfire.

And the way they're trying to address it is pretty much what they told us back then:

If we get to that point (it's not clear if it'd ever actually happen), we wouldn't want "use Taunt on cooldown" to be the way to deal with it anyway. We'd rather just make sure you're generating enough threat.

Both players and Blizz already knew that it's going to happen eventually.

[Mardux]

People also keep forgetting that Blizz greatly reduced the amount of bonus threat we're generating when using our taunts in 8.1, it's a very controversial change among tanks, but it's still manageable, but because people's DPS and esp burst dmg keep getting higher and higher, now that 8.1 taunt change started to backfire.

And the way they're trying to address it is pretty much what they told us back then:

If we get to that point (it's not clear if it'd ever actually happen), we wouldn't want "use Taunt on cooldown" to be the way to deal with it anyway. We'd rather just make sure you're generating enough threat.

Both players and Blizz already knew that it's going to happen eventually.

People also keep forgetting that Blizz came out an said there was no mechanical change to the amount of bonus threat that taunt generated and that the "change" was just making tooltips less convoluted.

[Lenis]

Threat hasnt been a thing in many expansions, the first sign of a dps having to pay attention to it you buff tank threat lol?

Classic cannot come soon enough, the game i love is dead and gone replaced by a psuedo collectors game that im not sure you can even call an mmo at this point.

You obviously dont play the game, so why do you comment? All tanks except ProtWarrior had problems with threat in M+ even in 8.1.5, especially on Skittish weeks. In 8.2 you (as any tank including ProtW) were forced into only running dps essences if you wanted a chance to keep agro whenever dps were bursting and Skittish would have made it impossible to keep agro without like 2x Tricks or Tricks+Misdirection.

[ls-]

People also keep forgetting that Blizz came out an said there was no mechanical change to the amount of bonus threat that taunt generated and that the "change" was just making tooltips less convoluted.

They said that they weren't removing the bonus, so mechanically it's still the same, but they're reducing it.

[micwini]

Good change. It is these oversights on obvious things that piss me off most about current Blizzard. They just don't seem to think about stuff anymore as they used to. Everyone saw this problem coming, apart from Blizzard apparently. They need to get back to thinking about stuff, rather than randomly making changes and bandaging them after.
Same with sharding. They keep bandaging every single problem it causes. The WQ group finding stuff with the addon and most recently the Battle for Nazjatar. There is also this lag that can occur. All of these issues have one culprit and that is sharding. That dumb spagetti code shit should be removed. There is no point in sharding other than making the server lag and that players see 100 people in Stormwind instead of just 50.

[Darknessvamp]

I wonder if the change will affect pet threat. I keep misdirecting to the stupid thing whenever it's off CD and it still manages to lose it's aggro on things when running dungeons or rares solo.

[coprax]

Because managing threat was so hard nowadays...

[Whistl3r]

heaven forbid people have to watch their threat.

[Magnosh]

If a tank loses threat due to DPS (not a mob out of range or something), then the tank is doing a poor job hitting the mobs in my opinion. Maybe that's a problem. I miss threat mattering, but I doubt people know what to do these days if playing with a poor tank (like running to the tank or start hitting a different mob rather than increasing their lead).

Not entirely the problem is never the tank loosing aggro in later stages but losing aggro as he pulls them, especially if you are playing with high burst dpsers, most of the times it's actually dpsers being too hasty in the start. I'm usually parsing purple/orange for DPS as a tank and it was fairly common if you pull a pack of mobs in a m+ dungeon and they insta burst them you are bound to lose threat in the first 3-5 seconds on some tanks if you don't have your high dps cds available.

[Bakis]

Threat is serious business in the later expansions. It's almost like it's not an issue. Oh wait, it isn't.
And Skittish affix? It's almost like the whole point of it is to introduce a mechanic keeping DPS from facerolling their keyboard 0,5s after tank pulls and adapting once the affix kicks in.

[Julmara]

or buff underperforming tank specs that do bad damage ?