Why are Rets so unwanted in M+?

[xxcloud417xx]

because we don't need Wake of Ashes to stun reaping anymore

lmao, this made me laugh. I miss reaping already strictly due to WoA stuns.

As for OP, a few ppl mentioned it, the issue isn't Ret per-se. It's the state of M+ in general. Leather classes outperform in many aspects (lookin' at Rogue/DH), and it wasn't a flavour of the tournament spec for MDI so ppl tend to dismiss it. The issue is that when you're doing sub-15 keys, it doesn't fucking matter nearly as much as the community seems to think. Not to mention that the reason a ton of classes do well in MDI is because of how the tanks pull an insane amount of mobs and the DPS cleave them all down and pull insane numbers. I've yet to see a tank do this in M+ PuGs, so why the fuck do you "need" the big AoE bursters??

I main Ret and come out on top of almost every PuG I get into, but my CE raiding experience, Mythic gear, and 1300+ io still doesn't mean shit versus a 300io Rogue when I'm just trying to get a weekly 10 in. I feel your pain, man.

[durenas]

Wow, Canada seems like some kind of magical hippy paradise.

In the USA when people keep pointing out mistakes you made, you eventually resort to "oh yea, well eff you and the horse you rode in on". In Canada, you keep apologizing. Like, wow. I may have to visit this snow covered moosey wonderland someday.

I like to think that admitting your mistakes is simply a sign of maturity.

[Demsi]

I'm aware that ret is good im M+ i guess i should have been more specific, and mentioned the perception that the overall community has of Rets and why it hasn't changed despite ret being pretty good.

[Jacarey67]

It’s hit and miss with Ret Palis for me. Sometimes they come in and just smash the meters. And other times they just suck. I know it’s like that with all classes but I tend to see it more with Ret Palis.

[DrMcNinja]

Ret is fine in M+

[Biomega]

Ret is fine in M+

But why invite a class that's fine, when there's 10 other classes queuing to be invited that are good or great?

[Zensunni]

It might be my less than stellar Raider.io score (i only do m+ once a week), but it seems that ret is not that much wanted in groups, this is not only my experience but a lot of others too (i know it's only anecdotal so do take it as it is).

Am i just being delusional or am i right? if so why?

You have a bad RIO and you're trying to blame the class? Ret is not fotm by any stress, but I'll personally 100% take a ret pally if I have an open 3rd slot, rogue and CR are covered, if they have a good RIO. In particular, I'm a fan of taking a ret paladin on bursting/grievous weeks for WoG.

Maybe you should work on your RIO before crying wolf?

- - - Updated - - -

lmao, this made me laugh. I miss reaping already strictly due to WoA stuns.

As for OP, a few ppl mentioned it, the issue isn't Ret per-se. It's the state of M+ in general. Leather classes outperform in many aspects (lookin' at Rogue/DH), and it wasn't a flavour of the tournament spec for MDI so ppl tend to dismiss it. The issue is that when you're doing sub-15 keys, it doesn't fucking matter nearly as much as the community seems to think. Not to mention that the reason a ton of classes do well in MDI is because of how the tanks pull an insane amount of mobs and the DPS cleave them all down and pull insane numbers. I've yet to see a tank do this in M+ PuGs, so why the fuck do you "need" the big AoE bursters??

I main Ret and come out on top of almost every PuG I get into, but my CE raiding experience, Mythic gear, and 1300+ io still doesn't mean shit versus a 300io Rogue when I'm just trying to get a weekly 10 in. I feel your pain, man.

Only a moron would take a 300 RIO rogue over a 1300 RIO ret paladin. Experienced players don't do that, and the morons that do quickly learn better. Your attempt at hyperbole has failed.

[Omedon]

Don't PUG mythic+. There may be a scene for such, but it's clearly not intended. If you don't have friends to run with, there's SO MUCH other content you could do.

[roboscorcher]

word of glory is awful healing, and if you're relying on that to keep you alive, then tell your healer to not suck.

How do you figure? It's a juicy, instant, AoE ,burst heal that can be buffed by spender bonuses. Yes it costs HoPo but it can save 5mans in a pinch.

[Puri]

word of glory is awful healing, and if you're relying on that to keep you alive, then tell your healer to not suck.

Yeah, an AoE LoH with several charges is such an awful healing, stick it you sucking healers!

[Lenis]

I really don’t get the elitist min/max approach peaople have to mythic dungeons. I’m 406 ilvl DH and always top my groups, I can spend an hour looking for a +6 or higher dungeon as DPS even if I apply to grps with 2+ dps slots open. If I spec tank (which I hate) then I get group invite for in the first or second group I apply to...

I Understand that stealth skipping is good but you can use pots and for lower m+ it isn’t even needed. It somehow doesn’t matter that you know what to do or that you are prepared... nah, everything is min/max for casual content...

Please be reasonable. As someone who makes groups I can tell you. Most of the time I have 8-10 dps and 2-3 healers in like a minute after joining group finder. You get to choose who you are playing with. I dont personally know any of them, so I use 3 main resources: 1) class/spec, 2) raider.io info, 3) item lvl. You choose people with a lot of dungeons completed, best classes that are available in que with highest ilvl and R.io rating. Do I need two rogues windwalker prot warrior and resto druid to complete +8? No I dont. But why I would ever invite someone who is less experienced? It takes up to five minutes to make a group even if you are very picky.

[Chemii]

Pugging M+ just isn't reasonable full stop, so don't expect the community to be.

Rogues are an outlier as far as I can see, everything else seems to be pretty good.

[xStevooo]

I think it's been a good couple of expansions since i saw a Ret queue for a dungeon with me, don't even get them apply. It's like inviting a shadow priest to your group before their rework xD Sad really, former Pally main the class is dogshit now.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Please be reasonable. As someone who makes groups I can tell you. Most of the time I have 8-10 dps and 2-3 healers in like a minute after joining group finder. You get to choose who you are playing with. I dont personally know any of them, so I use 3 main resources: 1) class/spec, 2) raider.io info, 3) item lvl. You choose people with a lot of dungeons completed, best classes that are available in que with highest ilvl and R.io rating. Do I need two rogues windwalker prot warrior and resto druid to complete +8? No I dont. But why I would ever invite someone who is less experienced? It takes up to five minutes to make a group even if you are very picky.

Okay, I came back for patch 8.2 after I quit BfA after a month, I'm geared up well beyond the requirements of doing +6 and I grinded the shit out of all the m+ dungeons at launch. The mechanics of them hasn't changed- they're tuned up (season 3) to match our current gear levels.
There's no mechanic, difficulty or gear requirement that stops me from being able to do M+6 well in time. Raider.io is just as cancerous as ilvl score and other filters people use.

"But why I would ever invite someone who is less experienced? It takes up to five minutes to make a group even if you are very picky."
How do you know if someone is good based on R.io? They could've been the worst in their group every single time, doesn't push or min/max, they could've been boosted or they could've done M+ runs they outgear to oblivion and gotten a higher score from that.
How are people who are starting the expansion late or coming back to it going to get "experience" or higher R.io score if nobody that uses the tool will ever take them?

[Marrilaife]

How are people who are starting the expansion late or coming back to it going to get "experience" or higher R.io score if nobody that uses the tool will ever take them?

By making groups with people in similar situation to them (new / returning players) and learning together thus gaining experience that way.

[Lenis]

Okay, I came back for patch 8.2 after I quit BfA after a month, I'm geared up well beyond the requirements of doing +6 and I grinded the shit out of all the m+ dungeons at launch. The mechanics of them hasn't changed- they're tuned up (season 3) to match our current gear levels.
There's no mechanic, difficulty or gear requirement that stops me from being able to do M+6 well in time. Raider.io is just as cancerous as ilvl score and other filters people use.

"But why I would ever invite someone who is less experienced? It takes up to five minutes to make a group even if you are very picky."
How do you know if someone is good based on R.io? They could've been the worst in their group every single time, doesn't push or min/max, they could've been boosted or they could've done M+ runs they outgear to oblivion and gotten a higher score from that.
How are people who are starting the expansion late or coming back to it going to get "experience" or higher R.io score if nobody that uses the tool will ever take them?

I dont know whether they are good based on R.io. I know that it is more likely that they are good based on R.io. You cannot get high R.io from running low keys. +10 timed +1 gives you ~104 points doesnt matter whether you done it once or billion times. R.io score is ladder system. The lower you go the more people there are. Last season I did 19s-20s. I started this season by pugging every single dungeon +12-13 in time. Now I am queing to 14-16s for every dungeon. I am not expecting to be invited to 17 because I did one 12.

About boosted people. As I mentioned before, one of the criteria I always use is "people with a lot of dungeons completed". It shows in the tooltip. Right now I would expect people with 25 +10 and more timed for my +14-16 keys. Preferably even some +15 or more timed.

What to do for new people? Start for the bottom. Time all 10 different keys at +6-7, then go to +8-9, then +10-11 and so on. You will get gear and experience on your way.

[Kaver]

I still don't know why people aren't making groups themselves... I'm always making my own group. I get 20-30 dps applications in the first min and healers + tanks also come pretty quickly.

Once there was only a few groups in the premade group finder so I thought it must be because only a few players were doing dungeons at that moment. However I decided to make my own group anyway and I to my surprise I got 50+ many applications in a few minutes with players of all roles.

Why are there so many people who want to do dungeons but only so few who actually want to make groups? It is so easy and effortless to make a group. The only excuse I can think of is if a person want to farm a specific dungeon and don't got that exact key. But if people just want to do a random dungeon then take the easy option and make your own group. That is my recommendation. Currently you'll find players very fast especially if you don't set very high requirements.

As I general rule, I'm always using my own key until I have a R.io of 1400+... It normally takes me 2-3 weeks by casually playing m+. After that I sometimes join other peoples keys IF I need to farm a specific dungeon. Otherwise I'll just keep using my own key.

If you start making your own groups you will also start to understand why you are not always chosen for other people's groups... There are SOOOO many applicants... it's hard to even choose.

[xxcloud417xx]

Only a moron would take a 300 RIO rogue over a 1300 RIO ret paladin. Experienced players don't do that, and the morons that do quickly learn better. Your attempt at hyperbole has failed.

Or maybe there's just a lot of morons out there?

It's also not hyperbole, I have a 1300+ Ret Main and a 300ish Rogue alt, shit's actually happening. lol

[Mardux]

Okay, I came back for patch 8.2 after I quit BfA after a month, I'm geared up well beyond the requirements of doing +6 and I grinded the shit out of all the m+ dungeons at launch. The mechanics of them hasn't changed- they're tuned up (season 3) to match our current gear levels.
There's no mechanic, difficulty or gear requirement that stops me from being able to do M+6 well in time. Raider.io is just as cancerous as ilvl score and other filters people use.

"But why I would ever invite someone who is less experienced? It takes up to five minutes to make a group even if you are very picky."
How do you know if someone is good based on R.io? They could've been the worst in their group every single time, doesn't push or min/max, they could've been boosted or they could've done M+ runs they outgear to oblivion and gotten a higher score from that.
How are people who are starting the expansion late or coming back to it going to get "experience" or higher R.io score if nobody that uses the tool will ever take them?

Its easy if you follow what the people who depend on r.io to build their groups for them want you to do. Make your own groups, invite the scrubs (because those with 1200+ io think they're too good for you), probably fail the key because scrubs, then maybe by next season you'll be able to get invites to 10s (unlikely though, even if playing a "meta" class that isnt a rogue).

[Bonkura]

Don't PUG mythic+. There may be a scene for such, but it's clearly not intended. If you don't have friends to run with, there's SO MUCH other content you could do.

Agreed. Unless you enjoy pushing high keys and make friends that way. But then you'll play the Fotm class anyway.