Gilgoblin Female Heart of Azeroth animation Datamined! +9 new animations

[Maxilian]

Get real. There's no way they're going to add in Gilgoblins before they even update the Goblin models. Nobody wants a low-poly allied race.

Well... the Goblin model update are coming soon, so i imagine that when the Goblins get their updated model, so will the Gilgoblins (regardless if they plan on making them AR or not)

- - - Updated - - -

2. Quotes suggesting interest in the horde by all kelfin bodyguards and Atolia.

https://imgur.com/a/48EUBAf

As well as an expressive statement of interest in the horde by Neri in one quest.

This is nice, this alone push me to think that, even if the Gilgoblins are not the GO TO option for Blizzard, they do have them in mind.

Note: The Vulpera also have some hints just like those -Like the Forsaken Guard near the Throne Room, if you ask them where the Vulpera emissaries is, they ask why the interest? Have the Banshee Queen asked you to bring the Vulpera into the Horde?

[OverFanNisseFrasse]

I'll answer the other stuff at a later time as I am really tired at the time. Also FYI: Please don't take this response as an attack. I am simply giving an honest answer to a question I was asked earlier about how I feel.

I will wait patiently, myself take time to write proper answers, so I am not in a rush to gain an answer. And I will answer to all of yours once you written it all. And I don't take it as an attack, I asked and you answer it's all good. Ofcourse I will make an answer to the "evidence against Vulpera" aswell, but I will wait untile you written all of your answers.

[RayoftheSun]

I've been a bit busy in the past few days so I can finish my responses now.

Thats just silly. Not to worry, and no need to hope, I know I am right about this. No one is that insane to spends so much money, travel around the world, just to wave a angry sign at them. It's useless and inefficiency. I don't see WoW fans would rally up to such Frenzy. Ofcourse hateful and immature things will be thrown across the computer screens, but thats pretty much it. Then the are ALOT of other things I am far more worried about then a angry Warcraft fan not geting the Allied Race they desire.

I'll take your word for it, but the reason I have been lead to believe this is because there has been a lot of statements I've seen made by Vulpera supporters eluding to the fact that are hoping that Vulpera gets added because on popularity and that there will be tremendous backlash if they don't. Its just 1 or 2 people I've seen say this, but dozens of people over the course of a few months. Some of which I am aware are directly associated with the Vulpera Caravan.

Nice to see that the Kelfin got some fans! Keep it up. I been trying to find that poll, but I can't find it, do you perhaps have a link to the poll so I may see it?
And it's understandable that one is worried to have the Allied Race replaced by an other. Myself for example hope for Mok'Nathal Allied Race, due to Kul'tiran and Rexxar model share same rig and animation, If I am lucky I might get to play as one! But at the same time we yet havn't got a Undead Allied Race yet. I am concerned that we might get Light Forged Undead due to Calias development. So I can understand your concerns.

And as you can imagine, there is a lot of people who don't particularly like it when people go around saying that nobody wants Gilgoblins. I can link to you dozens of accounts of people bashing kelfin and saying some things that were flat out on untrue as a means of trying to push a certain agenda with Vulpera. That being said, ifI am to share such things with you, it should probably be done in private. We have had some people in this discord who have actively wanted them since legion dispite how they were prior to BFA. I kid you not. Some people just really love the idea of a fun sized aquatic race.

I believe fans say it more due to the overwhelming evidance and teases which surrounds the Vulpera, rather then they are simple more popular. But of course, they are very popular as a option of an Allied Race. They have a reputation, they have a model, with several different of customisation options and animations, and can equip gear on them(Helm, belt and shoulders are a bit off though). Mounts, Lore, Quests, etc. So it is understandable to believe that they are indeed a Allied Race in process. As I mentioned before, I am still very confident that they will become an Allied Race.
.

Evidence of which for the most part cannot be treated as evidence because of other existing factors in the game when people realize it. As such it is actively promoting an illusion that Vulpera is basically confirmed whereas the true story. I've already explained why in my earlier post that said evidence does not work. The true indicator for why Vulpera could be an allied race is the cutscene thing, but even that is very murky for reasons I will explain later. The only true indicator to me that Gilgoblins could be a playable race is the history of past ARs and the quotes made by the Gilblins about interest in the horde. So far all of them have been the same racial type along with slot pairing. Of course this too isn't certain either because Blizzard said allied races are not sub races. However this also doesn't rule out the possibility of a new goblin race being unveiled in the future.

We were pretty big even before Youtubers decided to make videos about the Vulpera. It most certainly have helped, but the Youtubers arn't a deciding factor for VHC growth. If Youtubers are making videos about Vulpera, it's either due to; they know that they will get views for their video since Vulpera are popular; or they are interested in Vulpera as Allied Race themselves; or that they believe that there is enough evidance for the Vulpera to become an Allied Race.

The Goblin Discord has existed since before the Vulpera discord was created and we have had people from the earliest days in there express interest in Gilblins dispite their state before BFA. Since I've created this thread about 40 new people have joined the discord. It is interesting because this thread is in fact the biggest promotion for Gilblins I have ever seen flat. Now imagine if I went to every major wow youtuber and convinced them to do a video about why Gilblins are basically a surefire allied race(which even myself I don't believe). This would cause a chain reaction that would start getting a lot people to talk about the race and about how likely it is; Especially if framed in such a way that got people to believe these would have some very potentially interesting custom options to them should they get a model update. Just look at what happened when I made this thread. When I made this thread, I heard about people talking about it all over the place.

And this is a tactic that I have noticed used by Vulpera supporters a lot which is why I decided to adapt it and what do you know? It legit yields results. Lets take the brewfest icons thing for example. I can argue that the existence of Halloween masks for every race and some non playable ones plus a tortollan mug icon immediately dispels this right? However someone makes a thread"Vulpera allied race confirmed Brewfest Icons found!" It doesn't matter if it is really evidence or not. All that matters is that enough people think it is and it draws hype. However it is an illusory form of hype. The issue with this hype is that in generating this hype it also kills hype for those who want Gilgoblins because the truth is that more than likely there will only be one race in the goblin slot.

And this is essentially what I meant when I said there is sort of a war between Vulpera and the Gilblin community right now many months ago. It is a hype war. People trying to hype up their desired allied race because each community of supporters is concerned over the thought that their desire AR may replace the other. To cope with this concern each try to hype up their desired allied race using evidence. Those who don't mind either are immune to this concern. This however is why I don't think there can be true peace between the Gilblin and Vulpera community no matter how hard we try at this time because of the inherent conflict of interest.

That being said, I do place a lot more blame on the Vulpera community because of this and many people following them. The reason why is because unlike mechagnome supporters who have just about everything going for them the Vulpera do, these guys aren't going around claiming they are a confirmed allied race, actively pushing for them to happen and talking smack about Sethrak supporters. There is also no central organized effort to promote and a lot of Vulpera supporters in the past have tried to marganize us and put us into this category of furry haters, tell us that it is a race that nobody wants, repeatedly say that Vulpera should happen cause more people want them. If they never ever done this were really just being chill like the Mechagnome supporters were, then we wouldn't have a problem. Now its true not everyone does this and they don't represent the Vulpera community as a whole, but there is enough of them that do it to be a problem. Plus there is the whole constantly going around and saying Vulpera is a confirmed race besided on flawed ideas that actively are untrue. What do you think should happen? I think all discussion over how likely a race should be switched to why I like this race and a general acceptance that we really don't know what the allied races will be without feeling the need to promote and lobby. Along with a general tendency to not get so emotionally attached to in game npcs that may never be playable. This is a much more healthy mindset to take.

1. I don't see how Nazjatar have to do anything with what I asked for. As it is purely speculation that people might get more interested in them.
2. Again, we arn't really putting that much effort into ours either, whatever it is actively promote, datamining and recruiting people. And we certainly don't recruit people, they come to us if they are interested, we don't preach the "common folk" to join our VHC, if they are interested they are welcome, and they are also welcome to leave at any time.
3. There is a change in it that I will agree with. But there is still a big contrast between the numbers of the fan groups.

The link earlier is sufficient, but I asked for if you do have a proof that they are more Kelfin fans then Vulpera fans. Which I havn't got a proper answer to.

Any community with enough dedication and effort can get thousands of people for their discord regardless of the topic with enough promotional and the right tactics. 1600 is still a tiny faction when set aside hundreds of thousands of players in this mmo. And with the right tactics you can also vastly change the perception of the public. I've always preferred a small niche community with a more tight nit group of people bound as one, but was only until BFA that I felt the need to turn this into a mega discord.

Again, our group is pretty relaxed and chilled aswell, we don't have huge amount of people that actively recruit nor datamine. And alot of the dataminined stuff have been from WoWhead's own Dataminers. Ofcourse as we see anything on MMO or WoWhead we share it in our Discord so people are up to date if something new related to Vulpera have appeard. You make it sounds -again- that we are somehow a huge organized organization with the single purpose to constantly mine in the files for Vulpera.

From an outsiders perspective, it can sure seem that way. There are multiple Vulpera speculation threads on wowhead filled with a lot of this "illusory evidence" yet there are a lot of people speculating Gilgoblins will be an allied race and I don't see any speculation pages about us. Plus often times there evidence may be true in itself, but is presented in a way that makes it false. There is often a lot more to the story we don't realize. Essentially one of the biggest problems is the common place mentality people have to think of many of these illusory evidence as indicators.

Now you just speculate, you don't have any evidance if it would or would not happend. Why would even Vulpera fans be interested in reading a Kelfin thread, unless they are also Kelfins fans. I see no reason for them to actively argue against you about the Kelfin as an Allied Race, unless you make comparison between the Kelfin and Vulpera of who is more or less likely. Also if you disrepute the Vulpera as an Allied Race only to bring up the Kelfin, THEN I can understand if Vulpera fans might do something drastic against you.

It is almost impossible to have a topic about Gilgoblins without someone who supports Vulpera coming in and saying something to the effect of "I hope this doesn't become an allied race" or "Vulpera would be better/more likely" And when stuff like this does happen, people are going to be defensive leading to a vicious cycle. I can link you dozens of situations that this has happened. It happened in this thread already dozens of times which resulted in lots of back and forth debating. And this is why I am so defensive as I am. I have a reason for making a lot of these claims I have. There is truth to them.

Oh c'mon, you start to sound like a propaganda teller with Vulpera mods brainwash people into one thing and one thing only, people act on their own accord, not due to any one told them so. Myself for example, I got tired seeing you putting Vulpera in bad Light and arguing that Vulpera fans are horrible people. Thuse i chose to finally respond. Not to mention that you can't downvote in forum threads any longer, they took it away for a year ago or so due to the toxcity it brought. Now you can only upvote.

I am just going to end this one on a positive note to true and keep things from getting further negative. You do seem like one of the really good ones as mentioned and I highly respect that. There are some folk I am friends with from there who I know are really nice.

We can always hope. But honestly it's just you that believe this is some sort of a conflict, you are creating this conflict by uplifting Kelfins as the obvious AR option compare to Vulpera which you often downplay as, and arguing that Vulpera community is bunch of evil people. But we don't need to be dicks about the opinions. I am not entierly sure what I am supposedly to imagen, if someone kept making threads about "Playable Kelfin" or "Playable Gilgoblins confirmed", I would most likely not give much of a thought about them, since I don't really care for Kelfins, playable or not. People make threads all the time about "This is confirmed" or "That is confirmed", not to mention all the stupid leaks we got right now before Blizzcon(Some looks interesting though, not gonna deny that).

And yes, I believe any Allied Race fan are worried not to get -their- Allied Race, it's only natural.

No. This is where I draw the line.

-Who saying Vulpera was a 100% confirmed allied race in beta bfa?
-Who the people claiming Vulpera was a confirmed allied race because HOA animations then suddenly changed their mind when they showed up on Gilgoblins?
-Who were the people claiming left and right anytime something Vulpera related showed up in game it was a 100% confirmed allied race?


Vulpera supporters and I have tons of sources I can prove this with too. My actions have been completely reactionary to what the Vulpera fanbase has been doing all along. You want to know the truth? If it wasn't for all the heavy Vulpera promotion, people incessantly saying Vulpera is an allied race, putting down kelfin supporters and repeatedly telling us that we are just a fringe group of people and nobody wants this race. This is what sparked my drive to campaign for Gilgoblins to begin with trying to push aside and put us in this corner. In the early days when I tried to just simply talk about Gilblins people were very hostile to me. This tension and conflict that was jumpstarted by the actions of Vulpera supporters promoting these illusory ideas. Plain and simple. And it is because so many Vulpera supporters are not willing to just sit back, chill and talk about their love for Vulpera. They have to tell you how likely it is to happen as an AR, drill it into your head and try to get blizzard to cave to their requests and they also have to push aside Gilblin supporters as this fringe group of people.


Now I do want to reiterate. Some of you guys are very nice and I get that. To those of you who aren't like this I highly respect you. Now try to look at things from my perspective and see these fundamental problems:


1. Promoting Vulpera based on illusory evidence that isn't actually true evidence of Vulpera being playable? The only reason I actually did this in this thread was to fight fire with fire.
2. The tendancy to incessantly insist that Vulpera is an allied race based on these false ideas for hype purposes.
3. While also putting down Kelfin. Like I said it is nearly impossible to have a Gilgoblin thread without something like this happening.
4. Using mob mentality to shut down, downvote and dissuade people supporting Kelfin. People shouldn't be getting downvoted and marginalized for saying they like Gilgoblins. And I have sources to back up this happening dozens of times.
5. Conflict of interest combined with the element of seemingly needed competition. There is the feeling that one doesn't participate in such a fan group, their desired AR has less a chance of happening, but the immediate issue is hyping. A lot of people getting together under one banner can generate hype and change public perception of many things.

___________________________________________________________________

This is the source of what courses the existing conflict and this why I don't believe there can truly be peace between Vulpera/gilblin supporters until a decision has been made on allied races. This leads me to another big issue which is this.

If either Vulpera or Gilblin are made playable, each community will likely have a great deal of hate to the other for a long time. "

However lets ask ourselves. How could this have been prevented to begin with? The simple answer is that nobody should have ever gotten so emotionally attached to npcs always treated the matter as though allied races are completely uncertain and never every try to lobby, force or put down another community. And it was the Vulpera folk who did this from the very beginning and essentially started this whole thing. I admit. I have played a part in making it worse in many ways, but after reading of this can you really blame how I act after all of these things have happened and continue to happen? Maybe you can understand how I feel and why.


FYI: I don't give much heed* to those supposed leaks.

[OverFanNisseFrasse]

I feel I outta respond to this before the thread goes to rest since specifically asked for here. I am going to try to keep it as positive as possible now, but the nature of debates tends to draw some tension at times.

This so called evidence that people have for Vulpera as an allied race. I have evidence that just about nullifies all of it. Lets go through it 1 by 1.

Okey, lets view it.

1. Geosets, rigs, the brewfest icons, animations the cutscene data, model specific geo set armor, and HD models are not evidence nor hints that Vulpera will be playable.

-Geosets, rigs, HD models, geoset armor, animations:

Thin humans exist in the wow modelviewer races tab that have unique rigs, working geosets, armor seemingly designed specially for that model, HD quality, and there are dozens of models with player specific animations. Now we know that these aren't playable. Many other models also have HD models and aren't playable. Many races did not get HD models until they become playable. Many npcs also have unique dances and animations. None of this can be used as an evidence or an indicator of Vulpera being playable and that is already a huge bulk of the Vulpera argument down the drain.

Kultiran model(fatty one) existed in modelviewer before they were announced as a playable race, and hade then considerable less options on them. The Thin Human model is straight up the Female Forsaken rig, idle, walk, swimming and more, ofcourse they have gained a few more animations, but thats due to Blizzard can now start to share animations between the rigs, effectively saving alot of work. So ofcourse it's easier to get armor on them since they are the very same model with the Female Forsaken. The job is practical already done.

And no, the only NPC with unique dance for the momment are Ogres, which share the very same dance with Druids Moonkin form. Unless you are a Zandalari Druid, then you get the Arakkoa model/rig, which also didn't have a dance which was just recently added. No other race have a unique dance, unless they are copy of rig/model from an actully playable race, aka Taunka, Ice Trolls, Fel Orcs etc. And sure, Vulpera doesn't have a unique dance, heck the female Vulpera doesn't have a fully jump mid air yet. But the male Vulpera have a jump, even a special jump which is to make a Front Flip in mid air and the tailed is animated to it, why spend so much time to make a Front Flip Jump with animated Tail to not use it is beyond me. Then I think Blizz is seriously wasting their resources.

-Vulpera have unique animations to them to include the tail, customisations option that are as following; 8 Skin color options, 6 Face options, 16 Ears options(males only got 12), 6 Snout options and 3 tattoo options.
-Having possibility to equip player armor. Helmets, Shoulders and Belts are still iffy, but the same was for the Kul'tiran Human before they where playable.
-It would be very dumb move from Blizzard to not use a model which they have putted alot of different aspects in to it, which can very much qualified it as a playable race.
-And sure they could just be cooler NPC models, but why didn't they do it to Tortollans, Sethrek(I am so sorry Sethrek!), Quilboar, K'thir among others? Fair enough, Blood trolls got some more varation, but I do believe it's cause they got an completely zone with quests dedicated to them soley.

Brewfest Icons:

There is also Tortollan mug icon for one and there has also been Halloween Mask icons for every race+some non playable ones like ogres, murlocs and some other creatures. Brewfest icons is most likely indicative of a holiday event that happens in Voldun.

Before Catalystem, Worgen and Goblin halloween masked were datamined before the announcment of Catalystem Expansion. And people went nuts with that this is possibal new playable races. Just a few hours later or a day later, Ogre and Murloc halloween masked were added datamined aswell. And no I am not misspelling, Blizz litterly added NPC halloween masks in order to draw away attention to the Worgen and Goblin masks.

Cutscene data:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...age=6#post-106

Take note of the blue post in this thread.

we’ve found that setting up certain races as though they were player characters can be highly advantageous for NPC customization in story content. While those races did become Allied Races later, we still intend to use this approach for non-playable races.

Please don’t take a race being datamined in this way as an indication that it will become playable in the future!


And since they prefer setting up npcs as playeful characters with many approaches, even though they are alongside allied races, this could very well actually be a setup for them as something actually none playable of what if they were literally just meant for a non playable cutscene. There could be many explanations to it.

They have yet to say no to the Vulpera, that have said no to Blood Trolls, High Elves(No for this expansion at least), Wild Hammer Dwarfs(No for this expansion at least) and Mogu. But Sure, same could go for the Kelfin/Gilgoblins. What are we refering to them again? Keep jumping between, Gilgoblins, Giblins and Kelfins.

Now for reasons that actually point in favor of Gilgoblins which don't apply to Vulpera.


1. The history of allied races.


Even if you argue that blizzard said that allied races aren't sub races, one still cannot deny there is a pattern and there is no guantee that Vulpera would be playable even if this pattern isn't true. One thing that people often forget is that there is almost surely going to be new races introduced next expansion and the races may be something we haven't seen yet. Now Vulpera aren't goblins and them using a similar rig does not put them into the share similarity critical between all allied races

Perhaps, but also; Zandalari is not a sub race to Darkspear, then it is the other way around. That Darkspear is a sub race to Zandalari. Same goes for Void Elves to Night Elves, they are elves, but they are on such extrem end to an other, that Vulpera and Goblins could be the extrem end to each other aswell.

And myself believe that after BFA, we won't get as much race or allied races, this is the expansion when they take the opportunity to add races. However in this I am not certain. Suddnly we might even get more races in the next expansion, but I think it's very unlikely.

2. Quotes suggesting interest in the horde by all kelfin bodyguards and Atolia.

https://imgur.com/a/48EUBAf

As well as an expressive statement of interest in the horde by Neri in one quest.

The are several occasions that the Vulpera say the same about the Horde. And then there is alot of other things which point towards that Vulpera is a very good candidate to become a Allied Race.

If overwhelming stuff about Vulpera is not enough, but the two things about Gilgoblins is enough. One which is speculation and the other a neat hint which Vulpera also have, I don't know what more to say.

I've been a bit busy in the past few days so I can finish my responses now.

No worry, I am in no rush.

I'll take your word for it, but the reason I have been lead to believe this is because there has been a lot of statements I've seen made by Vulpera supporters eluding to the fact that are hoping that Vulpera gets added because on popularity and that there will be tremendous backlash if they don't. Its just 1 or 2 people I've seen say this, but dozens of people over the course of a few months. Some of which I am aware are directly associated with the Vulpera Caravan.

A tremendous backlash if they don't? As I understood before that there wasn't that many supporters for the Vulpera as you stated it? Or I am mixing this up now or something? And even if it happends, I don't think there will be a tremendous backlash, then it's was much, much worse with the Azerit System that Blizz havn't been listning to the fans about, again, nothing to worry about.

And as you can imagine, there is a lot of people who don't particularly like it when people go around saying that nobody wants Gilgoblins. I can link to you dozens of accounts of people bashing kelfin and saying some things that were flat out on untrue as a means of trying to push a certain agenda with Vulpera. That being said, ifI am to share such things with you, it should probably be done in private. We have had some people in this discord who have actively wanted them since legion dispite how they were prior to BFA. I kid you not. Some people just really love the idea of a fun sized aquatic race.

And there alot of people who don't particularly like it when people go around saying that nobody wants Vulpera. Or even better, that they want the people who like the Vulpera to go and die in fire, geting cancer, and among other "nice things" the internet can conjure up since Furries are the worst thing ever. Don't give a lick about them and move on, don't waste your time on them, they will write that in less then 10 seconds and never think on it ever again, there is no reason for you to spend more then 10 seconds on it. And we have already discussed this, I don't see how this is relevant. But sure you are welcome to link them if you want in Private.

And I am still waiting for that Link from Twitter with the Poll.

Evidence of which for the most part cannot be treated as evidence because of other existing factors in the game when people realize it. As such it is actively promoting an illusion that Vulpera is basically confirmed whereas the true story. I've already explained why in my earlier post that said evidence does not work. The true indicator for why Vulpera could be an allied race is the cutscene thing, but even that is very murky for reasons I will explain later. The only true indicator to me that Gilgoblins could be a playable race is the history of past ARs and the quotes made by the Gilblins about interest in the horde. So far all of them have been the same racial type along with slot pairing. Of course this too isn't certain either because Blizzard said allied races are not sub races. However this also doesn't rule out the possibility of a new goblin race being unveiled in the future.

Which are very strong evidences to be honest. But again, the past Allied Races doesn't work either, Void Elves and Night elves are not the same, beside that they are elves, and which again can be used for Vulpera and Goblins, both are short races that trade alot. And that Vulpera also show interest in the Horde, moreso than the Gilgoblins I would say.

The Goblin Discord has existed since before the Vulpera discord was created and we have had people from the earliest days in there express interest in Gilblins dispite their state before BFA. Since I've created this thread about 40 new people have joined the discord. It is interesting because this thread is in fact the biggest promotion for Gilblins I have ever seen flat. Now imagine if I went to every major wow youtuber and convinced them to do a video about why Gilblins are basically a surefire allied race(which even myself I don't believe). This would cause a chain reaction that would start getting a lot people to talk about the race and about how likely it is; Especially if framed in such a way that got people to believe these would have some very potentially interesting custom options to them should they get a model update. Just look at what happened when I made this thread. When I made this thread, I heard about people talking about it all over the place.

Sure, our Discord was created early spring of 2018, the realse of Discord was 2015. So the Goblin Discord would probely be 1-3 years older, this is purely speculations. But to amass almost eight times the population in a shorter time certainly says something about Vulpera popularity. And good for you guys geting some exposure, keep it up! But we never went to talk to any youtuber about this, themselves chose to make a video about the Vulpera. And "Framed in such way that people would believe these would have custom options"? .. But, it's entirely different scenarios. Vulpera videos does have clear and logic evidance in them, tons of customizations options, there are things to see in them. Gilgoblins currently have nothing beside different skin colors. it would be an very speculative video with nothing concret in it, we can't compare between them. You keep making it seems that it's easy to gain alot of people, but it takes alot of time and effort to make an Youtube video. (Alright, it can vary due to the quality of the video, but still). Which often leads to which race are people more interested in.

And this is a tactic that I have noticed used by Vulpera supporters a lot which is why I decided to adapt it and what do you know? It legit yields results. Lets take the brewfest icons thing for example. I can argue that the existence of Halloween masks for every race and some non playable ones plus a tortollan mug icon immediately dispels this right? However someone makes a thread"Vulpera allied race confirmed Brewfest Icons found!" It doesn't matter if it is really evidence or not. All that matters is that enough people think it is and it draws hype. However it is an illusory form of hype. The issue with this hype is that in generating this hype it also kills hype for those who want Gilgoblins because the truth is that more than likely there will only be one race in the goblin slot.

Ehum, okey? Good for you I guess. But seriously, there have been a Ogre Mug there for years, yet we havn't got any Playable Ogres. And again the same with the Halloween Masks, they most likely added a pair of other mugs to throw of the evidance of Vulperas Mugs. Also the arn't any Gilgoblin/Giblin/Kelfin mugs.

And I honestly don't believe in those slots, some of the races are either easy to make, such as the LFD and HMT, while others are fans have been asking for years, Mag'har and Zandalari. And again:
It wasn't a Blood Elf that took the "Blood Elf slot", it was a Night Elf. Nightbourne.
It wasn't a Night Elf that took the "Night Elf slot", it was a Blood Elf. Void Elf. How many times will I need to repeat this...

And this is essentially what I meant when I said there is sort of a war between Vulpera and the Gilblin community right now many months ago. It is a hype war. People trying to hype up their desired allied race because each community of supporters is concerned over the thought that their desire AR may replace the other. To cope with this concern each try to hype up their desired allied race using evidence. Those who don't mind either are immune to this concern. This however is why I don't think there can be true peace between the Gilblin and Vulpera community no matter how hard we try at this time because of the inherent conflict of interest.

There isn't any war. I am sorry but the arn't any war(or well not sorry since I do not like war). Stop making this into a war when there isn't, if this was really a war as you say. Vulpera and Gilgoblin fans would constantly be at each others throats and arguing that their allied race is the next one, while downgrading anything of the other. But I rarely see this happening, if at all, it's such on a miniscule level that it's just you and some other that keep raging against one an other on the forums, which might not even be Vulpera fan for all you know.

That being said, I do place a lot more blame on the Vulpera community because of this and many people following them. The reason why is because unlike mechagnome supporters who have just about everything going for them the Vulpera do, these guys aren't going around claiming they are a confirmed allied race, actively pushing for them to happen and talking smack about Sethrak supporters.

Exuse my language now but; What the fucking Sargeras? How bloody dare you to falsely accused Vulpera fans for thrashing Sethrek fans. Vulpera Discord and Sethrek Discord are allies with one an other, we have links to each other channels, we even have a Sethrek channel in our Discord, we even share some mods with each other, for we support each other. We want each of our races to become playable due to they both come from same area, they share the lore, and would work excellent as riverly races to an other. So don't claim that we are thrashing them since we clearly don't, since I am on -both- of the Discords. I start to believe you seriously are just making stuff up.

There is also no central organized effort to promote and a lot of Vulpera supporters in the past have tried to marganize us and put us into this category of furry haters, tell us that it is a race that nobody wants, repeatedly say that Vulpera should happen cause more people want them. If they never ever done this were really just being chill like the Mechagnome supporters were, then we wouldn't have a problem. Now its true not everyone does this and they don't represent the Vulpera community as a whole, but there is enough of them that do it to be a problem. Plus there is the whole constantly going around and saying Vulpera is a confirmed race besided on flawed ideas that actively are untrue. What do you think should happen? I think all discussion over how likely a race should be switched to why I like this race and a general acceptance that we really don't know what the allied races will be without feeling the need to promote and lobby. Along with a general tendency to not get so emotionally attached to in game npcs that may never be playable. This is a much more healthy mindset to take.

Stop playing some sort of a victim card here, people of what ever fandom will hate on stuff you probably like. I love Warlords of Draenor, but I fully understand the flaws it hade, and I will not try to convince anyone that it is a great expansion. I will ofcourse if people ask explain to them why I liked it, but I will not play some sort of a underdog about it and argue that people are just bullying it. The are opinions, and some opinions are more harsh then others. But there is different in hating a object, and brush stroke a group of people for a few individuals wrong doings.

Any community with enough dedication and effort can get thousands of people for their discord regardless of the topic with enough promotional and the right tactics. 1600 is still a tiny faction when set aside hundreds of thousands of players in this mmo. And with the right tactics you can also vastly change the perception of the public. I've always preferred a small niche community with a more tight nit group of people bound as one, but was only until BFA that I felt the need to turn this into a mega discord.

We are 1700+ now btw. And Yet you keep arguing that there are tons of people bullying you and the things you like, like all the members of the Vulpera Discord intent are out for your blood or something, the -1700- of them, which clearly isn't true. And again, I am not denying that are memebers doing it, but considering you are arguing that we are a already on a miniscule level. Then on a miniscule level of a miniscule level there -shouldn't- by that many Vulpera fans bullying. Unless you are refering to the whole World of Warcraft Communitet itself, then it's a different spectrum. But then it is World Of Warcraft Community as whole, and not just the Vulpera Fans as you make it seems to be. And again with going in circles, people want vulpera fans to burn in hell is more common then some one thrashing on Gilgoblins.

From an outsiders perspective, it can sure seem that way. There are multiple Vulpera speculation threads on wowhead filled with a lot of this "illusory evidence" yet there are a lot of people speculating Gilgoblins will be an allied race and I don't see any speculation pages about us. Plus often times there evidence may be true in itself, but is presented in a way that makes it false. There is often a lot more to the story we don't realize. Essentially one of the biggest problems is the common place mentality people have to think of many of these illusory evidence as indicators.

Perhaps that WoWheads people believe that the possibility for playable Vulpera is very high, thats they made that those pages, due to the sheer amount of evidence, they are after all the people that have been data minning most of the Vulpera stuff. Illusionary Evidence? "Plus often times there evidence may be true in itself, but is presented in a way that makes it false."? What? I do not fully understand what you are trying to say here, but there is a thing know as

"Chekhov's gun (Russian: Чеховское ружьё) is a dramatic principle that states that every element in a story must be necessary, and irrelevant elements should be removed; elements should not appear to make "false promises" by never coming into play."

, if now Blizzard chose not to do it with the Vulpera, I would believe that they are pretty dumb and wasted alot of resources for nothing. When they could have keep the earlier model of Vulpera and be done with it. And seriously, in my opinion that if you currently compare Vulpera to Gilgoblins, Vulpera are currently more likely to become Allied race if we look at the evidence that have been presented from both parties.

It is almost impossible to have a topic about Gilgoblins without someone who supports Vulpera coming in and saying something to the effect of "I hope this doesn't become an allied race" or "Vulpera would be better/more likely" And when stuff like this does happen, people are going to be defensive leading to a vicious cycle. I can link you dozens of situations that this has happened. It happened in this thread already dozens of times which resulted in lots of back and forth debating. And this is why I am so defensive as I am. I have a reason for making a lot of these claims I have. There is truth to them.

Well then argue against them about the Gilgoblins, don't bring on the Vulpera about it, show that you can stand on your own and no need to bash other race to uplift your own. The soley reason for why I came into this thread was due to that you started to bad mouthing about the Vulpera Community. I honestly don't care about how much you want to promote Gilgoblins, go ahead and do it, good for you! I have no reasons to argue against it. And again I don't care if they become playable or not. Obviously I do care more for Vulpera then the Gilgoblins, but I have already stated that. But there is no reason to start bashing communities when there is only false accusations to it. And if I am to play the same card, the are alot more people that are constantly bashing Vulpera.

I am just going to end this one on a positive note to true and keep things from getting further negative. You do seem like one of the really good ones as mentioned and I highly respect that. There are some folk I am friends with from there who I know are really nice.

I will try to remain the same, neutral as much as possible as the are no need for harsh words for negativity. However, due to that what you said that the Vulpera Fans were bashing the Sethrek Fans, which is all entierly false. Myself -is- a Sethrek fan.

No. This is where I draw the line.

-Who saying Vulpera was a 100% confirmed allied race in beta bfa?
-Who the people claiming Vulpera was a confirmed allied race because HOA animations then suddenly changed their mind when they showed up on Gilgoblins?
-Who were the people claiming left and right anytime something Vulpera related showed up in game it was a 100% confirmed allied race?

-Not us, since we were still -becoming- an Fan Community of the Vulpera by then, but I will not deny that there was some of us surely thinking of it back then.
-I havn't changed my mind, due to it's an unique animation for the Vulpera and even Sethrek, while for the female gilgoblin it's a straight up copy of the actully female goblin model, no wonder it also get the Hearth of Azeroth Animation with it, since it was -already there-.
-Not all of us, some of us, sure.
Stop dragging everyone over the same line.

Vulpera supporters and I have tons of sources I can prove this with too. My actions have been completely reactionary to what the Vulpera fanbase has been doing all along. You want to know the truth? If it wasn't for all the heavy Vulpera promotion, people incessantly saying Vulpera is an allied race, putting down kelfin supporters and repeatedly telling us that we are just a fringe group of people and nobody wants this race. This is what sparked my drive to campaign for Gilgoblins to begin with trying to push aside and put us in this corner. In the early days when I tried to just simply talk about Gilblins people were very hostile to me. This tension and conflict that was jumpstarted by the actions of Vulpera supporters promoting these illusory ideas. Plain and simple. And it is because so many Vulpera supporters are not willing to just sit back, chill and talk about their love for Vulpera. They have to tell you how likely it is to happen as an AR, drill it into your head and try to get blizzard to cave to their requests and they also have to push aside Gilblin supporters as this fringe group of people.

I have read the Forums, and I have often see you mentioning that Vulpera only got 130 animations and can't be an allied race due to it among other things, and keep uplifting the Gilgoblins while downplaying the Vulpera and sure you do it calm and collected. But there have never been any sort of agande against the Gilgoblins, unless you said something that might have made some one upset. Thats why again, I am here arguing against you, no other reason then that. Fringe group of people? Didn't you argue before that you orginally were alot more just not as organized?

Now I do want to reiterate. Some of you guys are very nice and I get that. To those of you who aren't like this I highly respect you. Now try to look at things from my perspective and see these fundamental problems:

Thank you, but my mood have become soured due to early false claims about the Vulpera fandom.

1. Promoting Vulpera based on illusory evidence that isn't actually true evidence of Vulpera being playable? The only reason I actually did this in this thread was to fight fire with fire.
2. The tendancy to incessantly insist that Vulpera is an allied race based on these false ideas for hype purposes.
3. While also putting down Kelfin. Like I said it is nearly impossible to have a Gilgoblin thread without something like this happening.
4. Using mob mentality to shut down, downvote and dissuade people supporting Kelfin. People shouldn't be getting downvoted and marginalized for saying they like Gilgoblins. And I have sources to back up this happening dozens of times.
5. Conflict of interest combined with the element of seemingly needed competition. There is the feeling that one doesn't participate in such a fan group, their desired AR has less a chance of happening, but the immediate issue is hyping. A lot of people getting together under one banner can generate hype and change public perception of many things.

1. "Illusionary evidence", alright, then I do suggest you do the very same. For if the huge amount of "Illusionary evidence" is not enough for you about the Vulpera, and true you are entitled to your very own opinion, then don't become a hypocrite about that Gilgoblins "evidence" is enough for them to become playable.
2. Fans should be entitled to enjoy and speculate what ever might come up in the datamining, what ever it is about Vulpera or Gilgoblins. Ofcourse there is no need to be dicks about it. We can have a constructive discussion about pros and cons for both races. That is at least what I am trying to do currently.
3. It will happend to any thread, what ever it is Ogres, Gilgoblins, High Elves, Vulpera, just move on, don't bother more about them.
4. We already cleared this up, there is no -downvoting system any more-, stop bringing that up, and there is no mob mentality within the Vulpera Fan base, if the truely wase, then there would been more then hundred of people here trying to keep constantly bullying for just bringing up this idea. Don't paint every one as a Vulpera fan just 'cause they dislike Gilgoblins.
5. I am pretty sure Blizzard have already set everything in stone as of what Allied Races or not they have planned next. But sure I could be wrong.

This is the source of what courses the existing conflict and this why I don't believe there can truly be peace between Vulpera/gilblin supporters until a decision has been made on allied races. This leads me to another big issue which is this.

If either Vulpera or Gilblin are made playable, each community will likely have a great deal of hate to the other for a long time."
However lets ask ourselves. How could this have been prevented to begin with? The simple answer is that nobody should have ever gotten so emotionally attached to npcs always treated the matter as though allied races are completely uncertain and never every try to lobby, force or put down another community. And it was the Vulpera folk who did this from the very beginning and essentially started this whole thing. I admit. I have played a part in making it worse in many ways, but after reading of this can you really blame how I act after all of these things have happened and continue to happen? Maybe you can understand how I feel and why.

I would suggest you take your own advice then. I am not emotionally attached to the Vulpera. Will I be sad if we won't get playable Vulpera? Ofcourse I will be sad, perhaps even Angry, but then 1-2 days later I will move on. For Warcraft for me is just one aspect of my life it is not my life. And again I hardly believe it is the Vulpera Fanbase that have cause this "War" you keep saying it is, at this point it's more like a 1vs2 or something as I understand it. It's you and perhaps some one more that really want the Vulpera or something .. ? I don't know, Just-.. just move on and ignore them. And you should act better then them. Simple logic.

To be truely honest(Hopefully I don't sound like a cold bastard here now), I can never fully understand how someone else feel, I might understand the reasons as of how one came to feel as they do. But I can not fully grasp or understand how someone else truely feel. I don't understand how you feel, but I believe I understand as of why you feel, I believe I can not truely related to anyone, as ones feelings are always different to an other. If that make any sense at all...? Semi-relatable(??): I was bummed when I saw the Alpha female Worgen turned into the atrocity we hade now for the last 9 years or something. So I might understand. But luckly we will soon get new gobbos and doggos~!

FYI: I don't give much heed* to those supposed leaks.

Goodi, but they are fun to read though.

[RayoftheSun]

Okay so I want to keep this as short and straight to the point as possible simplicity sake. First thing is I want to apologize for the fingering pointing in the earlier message. I was actually go back and edit it, but you already responded. I am going to carry this conversation on without fingering pointing. Let me address this first:

Exuse my language now but; What the fucking Sargeras? How bloody dare you to falsely accused Vulpera fans for thrashing Sethrek fans. Vulpera Discord and Sethrek Discord are allies with one an other, we have links to each other channels, we even have a Sethrek channel in our Discord, we even share some mods with each other, for we support each other. We want each of our races to become playable due to they both come from same area, they share the lore, and would work excellent as riverly races to an other. So don't claim that we are thrashing them since we clearly don't, since I am on -both- of the Discords. I start to believe you seriously are just making stuff up.

I want to be very clear here. I was saying the Mechagnome supporters in general aren't bashing Sethrak supporters. I no way was trying to imply that you guys were bashing each other. I know you guys are allies already and that was never meant to be an implication either. I hope this is cleared up.

Kultiran model(fatty one) existed in modelviewer before they were announced as a playable race, and hade then considerable less options on them. The Thin Human model is straight up the Female Forsaken rig, idle, walk, swimming and more, ofcourse they have gained a few more animations, but thats due to Blizzard can now start to share animations between the rigs, effectively saving alot of work. So ofcourse it's easier to get armor on them since they are the very same model with the Female Forsaken. The job is practical already done.

https://imgur.com/Y2KdQgK

Naga also have Geosets with 5 skins and these armorpieces specifically designed for their body types. Naga definitely aren't using a play rig. The only geoset pieces that aren't working here for Naga are the capes and head. Check it in wowmodelviewer if you don't believe me. They also have 5 skin options and this time I made sure that skin options weren't just textures being applied. I can also easily reference Orynx's statement about that.

but why didn't they do it to Tortollans

What is interesting though about tortollans is that they have HD models and unique rigs. Same with Sethrak though. This also shows that HD quality in itself can't serve as an indicator something will be playable. Furthermore the goblin npcs you see in Mechagon don't have model updates either.

They have yet to say no to the Vulpera, that have said no to Blood Trolls, High Elves(No for this expansion at least), Wild Hammer Dwarfs(No for this expansion at least) and Mogu. But Sure, same could go for the Kelfin/Gilgoblins. What are we refering to them again? Keep jumping between, Gilgoblins, Giblins and Kelfins.

A perfectly valid assumption.

The are several occasions that the Vulpera say the same about the Horde. And then there is alot of other things which point towards that Vulpera is a very good candidate to become a Allied Race.

If overwhelming stuff about Vulpera is not enough, but the two things about Gilgoblins is enough. One which is speculation and the other a neat hint which Vulpera also have, I don't know what more to say.

Ehum, okey? Good for you I guess. But seriously, there have been a Ogre Mug there for years, yet we havn't got any Playable Ogres. And again the same with the Halloween Masks, they most likely added a pair of other mugs to throw of the evidance of Vulperas Mugs. Also the arn't any Gilgoblin/Giblin/Kelfin mugs.

And I honestly don't believe in those slots, some of the races are either easy to make, such as the LFD and HMT, while others are fans have been asking for years, Mag'har and Zandalari. And again:
It wasn't a Blood Elf that took the "Blood Elf slot", it was a Night Elf. Nightbourne.
It wasn't a Night Elf that took the "Night Elf slot", it was a Blood Elf. Void Elf. How many times will I need to repeat this...

Fair enough.

I will revisit the Halloween mask thing later on whilst I am doing research.

Stop playing some sort of a victim card here, people of what ever fandom will hate on stuff you probably like. I love Warlords of Draenor, but I fully understand the flaws it hade, and I will not try to convince anyone that it is a great expansion. I will ofcourse if people ask explain to them why I liked it, but I will not play some sort of a underdog about it and argue that people are just bullying it. The are opinions, and some opinions are more harsh then others. But there is different in hating a object, and brush stroke a group of people for a few individuals wrong doings.

There has been many others who have felt like I do in the Goblin Discord. That being said I do understand what you are saying.

We are 1700+ now btw. And Yet you keep arguing that there are tons of people bullying you and the things you like, like all the members of the Vulpera Discord intent are out for your blood or something, the -1700- of them, which clearly isn't true. And again, I am not denying that are memebers doing it, but considering you are arguing that we are a already on a miniscule level. Then on a miniscule level of a miniscule level there -shouldn't- by that many Vulpera fans bullying. Unless you are refering to the whole World of Warcraft Communitet itself, then it's a different spectrum. But then it is World Of Warcraft Community as whole, and not just the Vulpera Fans as you make it seems to be. And again with going in circles, people want vulpera fans to burn in hell is more common then some one thrashing on Gilgoblins.

Perhaps things are better handled a case by case basis. For example. There a lot of folks who support Gilblins, but they don't approach things as aggressively as I typically do. In fact some of them have even gotten upset at me for how I have approached the situation at times. That being said, if you saw things through my eyes, you may understand a lot more easily why I feel and act as I have done in the past.

Perhaps that WoWheads people believe that the possibility for playable Vulpera is very high, thats they made that those pages, due to the sheer amount of evidence, they are after all the people that have been data minning most of the Vulpera stuff. Illusionary Evidence? "Plus often times there evidence may be true in itself, but is presented in a way that makes it false."? What? I do not fully understand what you are trying to say here, but there is a thing know as

It all has to do with perspective and this is something honestly cannot blame you guys for. It is something that happens in just about any community. However there is the tendancy to seek and find evidence in favor of what we want. I do it, all AR communities tend to do this. No the issue really here is that if there is a specific AR slot and only one race will get it. It is only natural for both sides to be concerned when presented with evidence that threatens the other sides interests. And it is also only natural to try and find evidence in favor or one's said interests.


As for the second part. What I mean that Lets take the whole cutscene editor thing. What if it turns out this actually a placeholder name or there have been other non playable races like this in the past that didn't become playable or what if the reason for its existing was actually for a non player related purpose. When someone presents "evidence" in a certain way that makes it look true, it can often not quite be true without context. These are things to keep in mind.

I will try to remain the same, neutral as much as possible as the are no need for harsh words for negativity. However, due to that what you said that the Vulpera Fans were bashing the Sethrek Fans, which is all entierly false. Myself -is- a Sethrek fan.

Believe or not I actually think Vulpera would be a great race. I just don't want it to come in place of some kind of good goblin AR especially if the counterpart is going to be Mechagnomes. I would rather than be a core race. Of course I know that you guys don't believe there is a difference between core races and allied races. We are just going to have to disagree here. If for it wasn't for my concern of this race replacing a potential goblin AR, then I would have been actively supporting you guys all along.

Thank you, but my mood have become soured due to early false claims about the Vulpera fandom.

Which hopefully been rectified.

1. "Illusionary evidence", alright, then I do suggest you do the very same. For if the huge amount of "Illusionary evidence" is not enough for you about the Vulpera, and true you are entitled to your very own opinion, then don't become a hypocrite about that Gilgoblins "evidence" is enough for them to become playable.

Oh. I am afraid I cannot do that and I expect no less from you guys either. However it isn't your fault honest and it is not something you guys can control. It is just going to happen. That being said, since it is going to happen I see reason for me not to do the same for the purpose of drawing hype.

2. Fans should be entitled to enjoy and speculate what ever might come up in the datamining, what ever it is about Vulpera or Gilgoblins. Ofcourse there is no need to be dicks about it. We can have a constructive discussion about pros and cons for both races. That is at least what I am trying to do currently.

I will judge this on a case by case basis then.

3. It will happend to any thread, what ever it is Ogres, Gilgoblins, High Elves, Vulpera, just move on, don't bother more about them.

4. We already cleared this up, there is no -downvoting system any more-, stop bringing that up, and there is no mob mentality within the Vulpera Fan base, if the truely wase, then there would been more then hundred of people here trying to keep constantly bullying for just bringing up this idea. Don't paint every one as a Vulpera fan just 'cause they dislike Gilgoblins.

Fair enough. Though I was talking about other forums. Not this one.

5. I am pretty sure Blizzard have already set everything in stone as of what Allied Races or not they have planned next. But sure I could be wrong.

Okay.

I would suggest you take your own advice then. I am not emotionally attached to the Vulpera. Will I be sad if we won't get playable Vulpera? Ofcourse I will be sad, perhaps even Angry, but then 1-2 days later I will move on. For Warcraft for me is just one aspect of my life it is not my life. And again I hardly believe it is the Vulpera Fanbase that have cause this "War" you keep saying it is, at this point it's more like a 1vs2 or something as I understand it. It's you and perhaps some one more that really want the Vulpera or something .. ? I don't know, Just-.. just move on and ignore them. And you should act better then them. Simple logic.

There some things I need to contemplate in this regards.

To be truely honest(Hopefully I don't sound like a cold bastard here now), I can never fully understand how someone else feel, I might understand the reasons as of how one came to feel as they do. But I can not fully grasp or understand how someone else truely feel. I don't understand how you feel, but I believe I understand as of why you feel, I believe I can not truely related to anyone, as ones feelings are always different to an other. If that make any sense at all...? Semi-relatable(??): I was bummed when I saw the Alpha female Worgen turned into the atrocity we hade now for the last 9 years or something. So I might understand. But luckly we will soon get new gobbos and doggos~!


Okay so first off I want to clarify something. Admist responding to this there has been two questions you have been trying to ask me. I should answer these before continuing. About the twitter thing.

I saw this poll a month ago and I have no idea where it is. I can understand if you don't believe me. Perhaps another poll may surface in the future.

Sure, our Discord was created early spring of 2018, the realse of Discord was 2015. So the Goblin Discord would probely be 1-3 years older, this is purely speculations. But to amass almost eight times the population in a shorter time certainly says something about Vulpera popularity. And good for you guys geting some exposure, keep it up! But we never went to talk to any youtuber about this, themselves chose to make a video about the Vulpera. And "Framed in such way that people would believe these would have custom options"? .. But, it's entirely different scenarios. Vulpera videos does have clear and logic evidance in them, tons of customizations options, there are things to see in them. Gilgoblins currently have nothing beside different skin colors. it would be an very speculative video with nothing concret in it, we can't compare between them. You keep making it seems that it's easy to gain alot of people, but it takes alot of time and effort to make an Youtube video. (Alright, it can vary due to the quality of the video, but still). Which often leads to which race are people more interested in.

Didn't you argue before that you orginally were alot more just not as organized?

Because of the fact this question is gets too easy to get into finger pointing terrority and because I was going to edit out that statement earlier I am just going to simply say this. You have not really heard of us until recently you may have noticed. Until recently I haven't had much interest in growing the community beyond roughly 200 or so people and hasn't been listed and noted too publically.

As for the whole youtube video thing. When take away all the work on models done arguments, brewfest icons thing, take into consider the statement made by blizzard with those cutscene things suddenly Vulpera becomes significantly along with point out some of the things that actually point in favor of Gilblin as an allied race. I can also argue btw that Vulpera have their HOA animation because they got their rig from goblins too. I'll echo a sentinement that I said from earlier. It doesn't necessarily have to be true evidence of the race being playable, but it just has to feel like it is in the eyes of many.

There was a lot to go over here. If I missed one of your questions just let me know and I'll be happy to answer later.

[MrExcelion]

8.2.5: Vulpera (H) and Sethrak (A) - 8.0 content races
8.3.5: Gilgoblin (H) and Mechagnomes (A) - 8.2 content races

Could flip the order of the two, could see it going either way, but I think they planned on putting in Vulpera before Brewfest. Not sure what reputation they'd tie to Sethrak though

[Pigglix]

Unless it's coming with higher resolution normal goblins as well(which I suppose it could) I don't see gilgoblns being allied race.

Vulpera is probably gonna come before both.

So you saying Vulperas will come between 8.2 and 8.2.5?

So..should be anytime by now, right?

[Celista]

People wanted Vrykul, and I can see Blizzard believing that Drust-blooded Human-hybrids could be an acceptable implementation.

That seems like a massive stretch...

Get real. There's no way they're going to add in Gilgoblins before they even update the Goblin models. Nobody wants a low-poly allied race.

Considering that both vulpera and gilgoblins (shudder) are based off of the goblin model, I agree...for both races.

I don't think either are going to happen tbh, the next allied races are either going to be left field or they'll be related to the next expansion.

Did Blizzard say that we were getting more allied races before the end of BfA?

[3vyan]

@Ray of the sun.
You do realise the vulpera discord has a link to the goblin discord for those who are interested in kelfin?
They do this for every potential allied race. I see no hate on kelfin or organised sabotage action whatsoever.

I want both races but the truth is there is actual strong hints in favour of vulpera.
The tortollan brew has a different category than the vulpera brew who follow the same category as playable race brews.

The vulpera express interest in the horde as well.
I see you trying to discredit a lot of these hints but you are not well informed to do so.

[RayoftheSun]

I am simply wrapping up the conversation that me and OverFanNisseFrasse had which started out rather tensious. He asked me some questions and I am giving my honest answers to them. After this conversation is finalized I'll be taking a much less aggressive approach to things. In my last response to him I stated that I want to end the finger pointing. I want to end the tension and fingering pointing isn't going to do anything, but cause extra problems. However at the same time, I do really want Kelfin a lot and I feel compelled to explain my reasons why I think they are likely. And the reasons why I think they are likely require explanation why certain things such as lack of model updates don't work. In my last response I made some active attempts to avoid such finger pointing. It will take me a bit of time to shed this war mentality I have, but I will do it.

Remember. Had it not been for my concern that Vulpera might come in place of Kelfin, I would have been actively supporting you guys from the very beginning. Maybe it was a mistake that I didn't, but perhaps you can understand why I became a bit concerned.

[3vyan]

Just for fun I wanted to list all 'hint's in favour of vulpera and kelfin. Ray I am counting on you to add the kelfin parts.
Correct me if I am wrong here.



Culture
- Vulpera culture is based on survival: scavenging, banding together against common threats, seeking out allies for survival and establishing trade, nomadic culture

In relation to the goblin: a less greedy and tech heavy culture, more cooperation
In relation to the horde: their culture is very hordelike: survival, banding together, nomads, ... their story is a copy of that of the tauren and trolls

Models
- Complete revamp of model during BETA to have more facial rigging, moveable eyeballs and more animations, the same quality as pandaren
- Player unique animations (HoA/Class specific spellcasting)
- Ability to equip all armour (including capes) while the npcs have pasted on armour
- Unique animations not used by npcs (sleep/stand up/ special jump animation)
- Unique animations different from base model, aka different from Goblin (casting / running / stealth / mounting / ... ). These take a lot of effort.
- Lots of customisation options, even options that are currently not used by npcs

Settings
- Database linked to character creation screen horde
- Database info to enable vulpera as playable characters in cinematics

Note: A blizzard employee mentioned that this setting is not a guarantee a race will become playable. This post does not mean it will never be, as kul'tirans followed the same pattern and were comfirmed to become playable after this post.

Quests
- Horde helps out the vulpera in voldun during 8.0 questing
- Horde defend vulpera from alliance during 8.1 world quests
- Vulpera show interest in the horde and thank them on multiple occassions for their help and they mention they will rethink their isolated status due to the alliance attacks
- Alliance WQ show that the vulpera are tradepartner of Zandalar AND the horde
- Vulpera are present at Rastakhan's funeral
- There is a vulpera firekeeper during mid summer festival aligned with the horde (the only non playable race NPC so far)

Various
- Addition of allied races beverages for brewfest on 8.2 PTR including vulpera. In a later build they added non playable beverages such as tortollan but they were categorised differently. This paralels the halloween masks

[Terracresta]

their culture is very hordelike: survival, banding together, nomads, ... their story is a copy of that of the tauren and trolls

The Horde is not more normadic then the Alliance. Tauren and Trolls were forced into havin to leave their home areas and both have settled down, like Draenai or Gilneasians (they twice now) having to move and having settled down now. People that are fleeing an area to save their lives are not nomands, even if they are having to move around for a while before finding a place to settle down again. Both factions have races banding together and both have inner struggles that might force them apart. Also in the world of Warcraft every faction is fighting for survival.

[3vyan]

The Horde is not more normadic then the Alliance. Tauren and Trolls were forced into havin to leave their home areas and both have settled down, like Draenai or Gilneasians (they twice now) having to move and having settled down now. People that are fleeing an area to save their lives are not nomands, even if they are having to move around for a while before finding a place to settle down again. Both factions have races banding together and both have inner struggles that might force them apart. Also in the world of Warcraft every faction is fighting for survival.

To be fair, tauren were nomads. They had no permanent settlements before the quilboar and centaur attacked them and they got help from the horde.
The tauren were all about tents and moving from one place to another, living of the land and hunt and to band together against common threats.
This is what vulpera have as well.

I agree that many of the alliance races lost their homes, but it's not like they were nomads before they lost their homes. Before they joined the alliance they had grand cities and advanced cultures whereas the horde members often had a more primal/tribal way of living.
Again, this is what vulpera (or kelfin) have as well.

Of course there are exceptions such as forsaken, belves, ... but you often see people calling the tauren, orcs, trolls the true heart of the horde and the vulpera or kelfin fit this inner circle quite well.

Also this:



Mind you, I would love vulpera on alliance. But the ones from voldun are really horde material.

[js3915]

8.2.5: Vulpera (H) and Sethrak (A) - 8.0 content races
8.3.5: Gilgoblin (H) and Mechagnomes (A) - 8.2 content races

Could flip the order of the two, could see it going either way, but I think they planned on putting in Vulpera before Brewfest. Not sure what reputation they'd tie to Sethrak though

Honestly, if any race comes before vulpera the likelyhood vulpera is allied race goes to near 0... Only reason i can see their chances go up would be if we return to volduni. If 9.0 releases and no vulpera i doubt they will be ever added... And for the record i would like to see them added.

Gilgoblins have a good shot too. They also meet blizzard requirements.. Basically a reskin of current goblins (granted vulpera kinda are too but not really). Plus They have what blizzard loves as well and that is a reputation grind.

Not sure what race would be paired with vulpera for alliance side... It would also require a reputation of sorts to grind out

[RayoftheSun]

Ask and ye shall receive. I'll address each of these one by one and explain how I feel. One thing to note that we have some rather different perceptions on what qualifies as hints and evidence.

- Vulpera culture is based on survival: scavenging, banding together against common threats, seeking out allies for survival and establishing trade, nomadic culture

In relation to the goblin: a less greedy and tech heavy culture, more cooperation
In relation to the horde: their culture is very hordelike: survival, banding together, nomads, ... their story is a copy of that of the tauren and trolls

The first one is easy. Lets go through it.


1. Anyone who has done the Nazjatar quests would know that Gilgoblins are very scavenger like. Neri has said that she learned how to reverse engineer naga weaponry(I can source this if needed also). The iconic Gilgoblin is also a survival hunter.

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/...20091013204109

2. Banding together against common threats is very much something you see in Gilgoblins. They are actually greater immediate danger and facing a greater foe than the Vulpera are. Whereas the Sethrak mostly threaten the Vulpera, the Naga threaten all of Azeroth in the grand scheme of things and not all Sethrak are evil.

3. They are less greedy to the point they may actually qualify to be druids if playable.

4. "More cooperation" I think they are both about even here.

Points in favor of Gilgoblins in this regards:

1. I can argue that Gilgoblins have more lore because the Vulpera are mostly confined to Voldun whereas Gilgoblins have an entire zone with encampments all over the place throughout that zone. There also straight up appears to be a lot more of them.

2. Considering that they are fighting and even greater threat and in more immediate danger, the whole working together in hard times thing can easily be more applicate to them.

*Lets not forget also that they are firmly helping the Horde in Nazjatar.

Models

This is one of the places were we don't see quite eye to eye. In my opinion none of this can used as evidence for why Vulpera will be playable for so many reasons. Lets go over it now.

- Complete revamp of model during BETA to have more facial rigging, moveable eyeballs and more animations, the same quality as pandaren
- Player unique animations (HoA/Class specific spellcasting)
- Ability to equip all armour (including capes) while the npcs have pasted on armour
- Unique animations not used by npcs (sleep/stand up/ special jump animation)
- Unique animations different from base model, aka different from Goblin (casting / running / stealth / mounting / ... ). These take a lot of effort.
- Lots of customisation options, even options that are currently not used by npcs

https://imgur.com/a/SZzrqe2

Naga have geosets with specific armor designed armor around them. They hands that remove the fins when you equip certain pieces of armor and these definitely are NOT rig that was copied from an existing playable race. Thin humans also have dozens of unique custom options and although they are using the undead female rig, their facial options would have taken a heck of a lot of extra work to do. Furthermore there are many races with HD models such as tortollans that aren't playable. Another thing to keep in mind is that goblin npcs in Mechagon don't have model updates either. So one cannot use the arguments that Gilgoblins are less likely to happen because of lacking HD models because the Goblin models don't have them either and there are races we know won't be ARs with HD models. Tortollans also have unique rigs.

And as for animations, there are many npcs with unique animations. Now you tried to argue that Gilblins only have the HOA animation because of copy and pasting right? I could argue the same for Vulpera and what about the Sethrak HOA animation?

- Database linked to character creation screen horde
- Database info to enable vulpera as playable characters in cinematics

To me this is the actual strongest point in favor of Vulpera, but there are so many potential things that could explain this. I liken this to our evidence that Gilgoblins will be an allied race because of the history of ARs. This one has a specific statement by blizzard making it less of certainy, but so does the cutscene thing. So lets reflect. You probably already know the statement I am talking about here:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...1686748?page=6

So no need to go into detail. However we can also argue that based the history of past AR, whatever will be an allied race will probably be a goblin. Now Vulpera aren't goblins and them sharing a rig doesn't throw them into that similarity shared by all allied races. But of course blizzard said that allied races aren't sub races. In similar case though, I consider this the biggest indicator that Gilblins could be an AR. Furthermore, it is always possible that the Vulpera name could be a placeholder for something else and one thing to remember. Even if Kelfin don't become an AR, this doesn't bar the possibility that a new goblin race may be introduced next expansion that we haven't see yet if it is true that a variant is what we will be getting.

Quests
- Horde helps out the vulpera in voldun during 8.0 questing
- Horde defend vulpera from alliance during 8.1 world quests
- Vulpera show interest in the horde and thank them on multiple occassions for their help and they mention they will rethink their isolated status due to the alliance attacks
- Alliance WQ show that the vulpera are tradepartner of Zandalar AND the horde
- Vulpera are present at Rastakhan's funeral
- There is a vulpera firekeeper during mid summer festival aligned with the horde (the only non playable race NPC so far)

Similar to Gilgoblins, a lot of these are also applicable. I am going to run through some examples.


1. The Kelfin are definitely helping the Horde and all 3 bodyguards make statements about interests in the horde.
2. Considering that the Kelfin are bodyguards that actively aid and defend you against against the alliance, they definitely count as actively helping you fight the alliance.
3. I am just going to bring this up again.

https://imgur.com/a/d9Uqvic

It stands to solid reason that these guys would do a similar thing after all is said and done here.

4. We been through the whole aligned with the horde part.

I suspect a similar npcs will show for Gilgoblins and Mechagnomes in the future because this npc only showed up when we had progressed through the storyline to the point that Voldun was completed and Gilgoblins represent a major zone we visit. One thing to keep in mind is that there is a lot of interesting questions that are raised by these Gilgoblins in Nazjatar and there is a lot of potential to explore these in a future war campaign.
- Addition of allied races beverages for brewfest on 8.2 PTR including vulpera. In a later build they added non playable beverages such as tortollan but they were categorised differently. This paralels the halloween masks

The big difference there though is that there wasn't any other races that people speculated could be playable with many indicators. We have two races that could potentially be the AR based on an number of factors. What if they are actually trying to throw us off with the Vulpera mug icon to prevent us from suspecting Gilgoblins or some other goblin race as the AR? You see many people speculate that when Blizzard said that allied races aren't sub races, they simply did this to cover up their intentions.

Furthermore, another thing to keep in mind is that these icons and cutscene thing only showed up in 8.2 Approaching 8.3 we may see something for Gilgoblins.

[3vyan]

Thanks for the feedback Ray!

I listed a lot of 'hints' but none of it was meant to be evidence.
Just signs that may be in favour of them being added .

The equipable armor thing for exemple isn't proof since Taunka and naga, like you pointed out, have this as well.
But it's something in favour of them being added as opposed to races such as ankoan who need tons of work in this regard.

[Chronometer]

The Alliance just straight up don't have any datamined Allied races coming that I know of, unless you count thin Kul'Tirans which were data mined, but vanished as an option.

Or is that particular rig/skeleton the basis for the Calia led 'Light Undead'?
This has been my theory since I read Before the Storm.

Interesting to see if I end up being right.

[Thetruth1400]

Or is that particular rig/skeleton the basis for the Calia led 'Light Undead'?
This has been my theory since I read Before the Storm.

Interesting to see if I end up being right.

Potentially, considering the thin Kul Tiran rig was just the undead female rig.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwKUK0HSY7I

Shown at about 4:20 in

[3vyan]

Nobody is asking for Gilgiblins... or whatever they're called. They're dumb and frankly obnoxious.

They better not give this instead of Vulpera or I swear to god I'm going to sell some of my Blizzard stocks to Activision in revenge.

Nobody is asking for them still a discord and this thread exists.

I prefer vulpera as well but dont be so onnoxious. This is why vulpera fans get a bad name.

I want both but prefer vulps

[Grazrug]

Nobody is asking for Gilgiblins... or whatever they're called. They're dumb and frankly obnoxious.

They better not give this instead of Vulpera or I swear to god I'm going to sell some of my Blizzard stocks to Activision in revenge.

I highkey doubt you have market stocks from blizzard.