Boris Johnson wins race to be Tory leader and PM

[Nihilist74]

Oh goody, we have our own Trump now... except with more incompetence, and more stupidity.

I have a rope and a nearest tree calling...

Was this man elected by the people? Why did they vote for him? Did they think he would put Brexit through and supports xenophobia?

[standparlance]

This is the really scary part. Johnson only cares about his own advancement and will support anything that will achieve this. I am not sure that he has any actual vision for the country, the office of Prime Minister is simply a vehicle for his own career advancement and to satisfy his own sense of entitlement.

Seriously? That's almost everyone in British politics. You have maybe a dozen tories and conservatives who actually believe in anything - the rest are in it to get an executive seat on a bank when they quit.

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Always wonder why people think Corbyn wasn't a hard leaver when he's basically for most of his time in the commons calling the EU an evil empire. I guess the no convidence on Corbyn turned up to be nothing on Monday?

The EU is highly undemocratic and bureaucratic. That says little about whether you are for remain or leave, it just means you aren't a complete idiot.

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Yikes, this was a fun conversation.

Btw Just curious, are you still donating money to Change UK? I don't think they will be forming a government anytime soon somehow.....

[tehealadin]

Seriously? That's almost everyone in British politics. You have maybe a dozen tories and conservatives who actually believe in anything - the rest are in it to get an executive seat on a bank when they quit.

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Your point? It describes Boris, other people trying it doesn't make it ok for Boris, and most certainly don't do it so blatantly, or symbolise class entitlement to the extent that he does. And if you read the rest of my post, the context would be clearer- he is promoting people who do have a clear vision and goal, and that (the vision) in my opinion it is terrifying. The point being that he isn't necessarily setting out to do harm as his main aim, it is simply a means to an end for him.

[Northern Goblin]

Was this man elected by the people? Why did they vote for him? Did they think he would put Brexit through and supports xenophobia?

No, just by party members.

[Kallisto]

The EU is highly undemocratic and bureaucratic. That says little about whether you are for remain or leave, it just means you aren't a complete idiot.

No less Democratic than the UK. Perhaps more Democratic. The President places are figureheads at best. The commission is nothing more than the civil service like we have in the UK. The voting is more PR style than the UK FPTP the latter being undemocratic which along with the heads of governments (all of which are elected) hold all the power in the EU.

[Orby]

Was this man elected by the people? Why did they vote for him? Did they think he would put Brexit through and supports xenophobia?

No we had no say, he was elected by the conservatives themselves. Although maybe I should consider myself lucky considering the other candidatures, it was like choosing between twat 1 and twat 2, either way they would have had chosen a twat.

[Blur4stuff]

Did he really win, though?

[Ghostpanther]

Did he really win, though?

According to how they elect the PM, of course he did. That's why he is the new PM.

[Kronik85]

According to how they elect the PM, of course he did. That's why he is the new PM.

No, not really. Party memberships vote on who is who they want to lead them, this is different in every party. >140,000 Conservative party members voting on who they think is the most detached from reality to meet their own fantasies is not how we usually decide who is PM.

I know you've got an eyeroll in there but I somehow doubt it's about the issue you should be rolling your eyes about.

[Captain N]

Best thing I saw today about this stuff with Boris Johnson....

Britain is about to find out why Willy Wonka didn't turn his chocolate factory over to Augustus Gloop.

[Ghostpanther]

No, not really. Party memberships vote on who is who they want to lead them, this is different in every party. 100,000 Conservative party members voti g on who they think is the most detached from reality to meet their own fantasies is not how we usually decide who is PM.

So some people did vote him as the next PM. So within the party that had the majority, most voted for him. If you say, most people in the UK did not vote for him, then that is true. This is based on the answers I got earlier in this thread from those who ether live in the UK or know how it is done. The one I replied to said, did he really win? Yes he did.

[Kronik85]

So some people did vote him as the next PM. So within the party that had the majority, most voted for him. If you say, most people in the UK did not vote for him, then that is true. This is based on the answers I got earlier in this thread from those who ether live in the UK or know how it is done. The one I replied to said, did he really win? Yes he did.

The Conservative Leadership Contest is not our usual or preferred mechanism for choosing a PM. Technically speaking only 1 constituency in the country directly elects a PM, the rest of us are voting for our chosen MP. If you are after technicalities that is.

[Ghostpanther]

The Conservative Leadership Contest is not our usual or preferred mechanism for choosing a PM. Technically speaking only 1 constituency in the country directly elects a PM, the rest of us are voting for our chosen MP. If you are after technicalities that is.

Normally the President in the US also wins the popular vote. But on 4 occasions down thru our over 200 year history, it was won by electoral votes. But each President who won the presidency did.....win it. Maybe that is why I am saying, he did win the PM position or it would be unlawful, right?

[Kronik85]

Normally the President in the US also wins the popular vote. But on 4 occasions down thru our over 200 year history, it was won by electoral votes. But each President who won the presidency did.....win it. Maybe that is why I am saying, he did win the PM position or it would be unlawful, right?

You guys have a direct contest specifically to pick a President right? Well over here we have a General Election where we break the country up into sperate constituencies (650 of them to be precise), the British electorate are then asked to pick their local MP via a FPTP voting system. At no point, nor are we asked to actually elect our preferred PM (unless you happen to live in the specific constituency of a Party Leader).

So that's the technicals, a PM instead draws...I dunno what to call it, democratic legitimacy? Let's go with that. A PM draws democratic legitimacy from being a party leader during a GE and winning that GE since a parties performance during a GE is heavily influenced by who leads it and victory here is considered a mandate by the people to be a PM. BoJo has not a won a GE so by convention it can be argued that he has no democratic legitimacy and no mandate from the people to pursue his chosen legislative agenda.

Does that make sense?

[Shadowferal]

You guys have a direct contest specifically to pick a President right? Well over here we have a General Election where we break the country up into sperate constituencies (650 of them to be precise), the British electorate are then asked to pick their local MP via a FPTP voting system. At no point, nor are we asked to actually elect our preferred PM (unless you happen to live in the specific constituency of a Party Leader).

So that's the technicals, a PM instead draws...I dunno what to call it, democratic legitimacy from being a party leader during a GE and winning that GE since a parties performance during a GE is heavily influenced by who leads it. BoJo has not a won a GE so by convention it can be argued that he has no democratic legitimacy.

Does that make sense?

*sigh*
It's a wonder how a country with such a different system can end up with...well, the similar problem child the US has.

[tehealadin]

You guys have a direct contest specifically to pick a President right? Well over here we have a General Election where we break the country up into sperate constituencies (650 of them to be precise), the British electorate are then asked to pick their local MP via a FPTP voting system. At no point, nor are we asked to actually elect our preferred PM (unless you happen to live in the specific constituency of a Party Leader).

So that's the technicals, a PM instead draws...I dunno what to call it, democratic legitimacy from being a party leader during a GE and winning that GE since a parties performance during a GE is heavily influenced by who leads it. BoJo has not a won a GE so by convention it can be argued that he has no democratic legitimacy.

Does that make sense?

I think that was a good summary of it.

[Ghostpanther]

You guys have a direct contest specifically to pick a President right? Well over here we have a General Election where we break the country up into sperate constituencies (650 of them to be precise), the British electorate are then asked to pick their local MP via a FPTP voting system. At no point, nor are we asked to actually elect our preferred PM (unless you happen to live in the specific constituency of a Party Leader).

So that's the technicals, a PM instead draws...I dunno what to call it, democratic legitimacy? Let's go with that. A PM draws democratic legitimacy from being a party leader during a GE and winning that GE since a parties performance during a GE is heavily influenced by who leads it and victory here is considered a mandate by the people to be a PM. BoJo has not a won a GE so by convention it can be argued that he has no democratic legitimacy and no mandate from the people to pursue his chosen legislative agenda.

Does that make sense?

Yeah. I suppose. lol! So if BoJo did not win the PM leadership, then it is unlawful and you can remove him?

[Kronik85]

Yeah. I suppose. lol! So if BoJo did not win the PM leadership, then it is unlawful and you can remove him?

Well we never actually elect a PM, only our local MP. There is nothing illegal happening here, it just isn't cricket lol. Selecting a PM in this fashion is skipping over the conventions that give a PM legitimacy in the eyes of the electorate, whilst we never elect a PM, we expect a Party Leader to win a GE in order to become one.

Equally it creates problems for his legislative programme because it's vastly different from his predecessors. The British public were not asked their opinion on Reagonomic Boogaloo, defunding the NHS and leaving the EU without a deal yet these are his clear intentions.

BoJo has not been given a mandate from the British people and winning an internal leadership contest should not be considered as a stand in.

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*sigh*
It's a wonder how a country with such a different system can end up with...well, the similar problem child the US has.

FPTP systems create intentional democratic deficits to benefit those already in power? The other options would be Murdoch Media and the abject failure of neo liberalism to work for the nation's poorest channeling them to populists who give simple solutions to complex problems usually by blaming "the other".

That would be my guess lol.

[Ghostpanther]

Well we never actually elect a PM, only our local MP. There is nothing illegal happening here, it just isn't cricket lol. Selecting a PM in this fashion is skipping over the conventions that give a PM legitimacy in the eyes of the electorate, whilst we never elect a PM, we expect a Party Leader to win a GE in order to become one.

Equally it creates problems for his legislative programme because it's vastly different from his predecessors. The British public were not asked their opinion on Reagonomic Boogaloo, defunding the NHS and leaving the EU without a deal yet these are his clear intentions.

BoJo has not been given a mandate from the British people and winning an internal leadership contest should not be considered as a stand in.

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.

I thought you guys voted to leave the EU? And wasn't this the reason the former PM lost confidence? She had failed to get the exit finalized? From the US news perspective, this seems to be the reason. But not saying that is telling the whole truth.

[Kronik85]

I thought you guys voted to leave the EU? And wasn't this the reason the former PM lost confidence? She had failed to get the exit finalized? From the US news perspective, this seems to be the reason. But not saying that is telling the whole truth.

We had a 52/48 split on something we decided was called Brexit but failed to qualify what Brexit actually was. In short the British people were never asked how they wished to leave the EU (which it turns out is the most important part of the whole Brexit thing) and at no point did the Leave campaign say that they wanted to leave without a deal and instead sold people fictions which have not touched reality to this day. Both campaigns were fought so dishonestly that if the result hadn't been non-binding then the results would have been declared invalid by the Electoral Commission.

Theresa May fought a GE on getting a deal (and won...barely), not BoJo's position of Brexit at any cost and she never lost the confidence of the House, if she had then we would still be campaigning in a GE right now (GE campaigning takes 6 week by law), she has simply stepped down as Conservative Leader because she was a lame duck unable to command even her own party, nevermind the Parliament at large.

There is no mandate for No Deal Brexit and the Parliament itself has made it clear it will never allow a No Deal Brexit. BoJo has no mandate from anyone, be it Parliament or the electorate to do what he intends to do.