Is a easy/difficult talent spec build a good concept?

[Big Thanks]

When it comes to talent trees and customization
Is having a easy to play spec BUT slightly lower output & (the counter part) a harder to play spec BUT slightly higher output a good way for Talent Tree customization?

Or is bad talent tree design?

I ask this because i recently found a spec for Demon Hunter that allows me to turn off my brain (even further) and i enjoy the concept very much.
Its really good to sit back and turn off your brain for a bit yet knowing you have slightly lower output.

But one might not enjoy this concept of easy/hard and think is bad game design, specially in PvE...what do you guys think?

I would like to hear your opinion for PvE and PvP

The "brain dead" spec for demon hunter i found (in case you ask) is Blind Fury > Demon Blades > Demonic for casual PvP.
Awful initiation and clunky at the start with zero rage.
Really bursty once you manage to Eye Beam and spam Anihilation & Deathsweeps with Demonic...and proceed to do nothing for the entire EyE beam cooldown.

[Wingspan]

When it comes to talent trees and customization
Is having a easy to play spec BUT slightly lower output & (the counter part) a harder to play spec BUT slightly higher output a good way for Talent Tree customization?

Or is bad talent tree design?

I ask this because i recently found a spec for Demon Hunter that allows me to turn off my brain (even further) and i enjoy the concept very much.
Its really good to sit back and turn off your brain for a bit yet knowing you have slightly lower output.

But one might not enjoy this concept of easy/hard and think is bad game design, specially in PvE...what do you guys think?

I would like to hear your opinion for PvE and PvP

The best guideline is probably whatever creates the most fun for the most people. Giving people an easy option is probably a good idea... and a harder option with a bit better output is great for those that really want to max things. The key is to design them to be close enough performance-wise to not make the hard one “mandatory”.

To be honest, unless there is a core ability that I just need to have, I typically try to chose all passives from the talent trees. I think my feral Druid used the Moonfire talent for pulling things, and all passives otherwise (to be fair though, I knew I was only going to be around for the 3-day freebie, so I didn’t care to overthink it).

[Mikazukinoyaiba]

Its actually insane that people consider Demon Hunter have difficult talent spec.

[MechaCThun]

Its actually insane that people consider Demon Hunter have difficult talent spec.

I have never seen or heard this from anybody who plays the class.

[Big Thanks]

Its actually insane that people consider Demon Hunter have difficult talent spec.

There are some intricacies.

For example with Immolation Aura and Demonic Appetite and Demonic

You need to first fill your rage bar
Then use eye beam
Then immolation aura
Deathsweep and Anihilation spam and catch orbs...8 seconds of spam while in Meta form

If you do a eye beam with little to zero rage...congratulations...you just played yourself

[MoanaLisa]

Personally I like it. When I want to be very casual--most of the time--I'll take the talents that are more baked in over procs. The difference is small enough and doesn't really matter a lot in world content if you're paying attention. When I feel more like playing hard, doing mythic+ or want to raid with friends, I'll put in the more active talents and hit the training dummy for half an hour to clean up the muscle memory.

If you're asking if players of different skill levels should have a choice, well of course.

[Mikazukinoyaiba]

There are some intricacies.

For example with Immolation Aura and Demonic Appetite and Demonic

You need to first fill your rage bar
Then use eye beam
Then immolation aura
Deathsweep and Anihilation spam and catch orbs...8 seconds of spam while in Meta form

If you do a eye beam with little to zero rage...congratulations...you just played yourself

Do you consider that hard?

[Niroshi]

I'd prefer complexity to come from the class design itself and not the talents. If someone wants to be lazy they can just slum through whatever is given anyhow since 90% of the game doesn't try to challenge you.

[MechaCThun]

Not to help turn this into yet another thread by Togabito creaming his pants over his love for playing Demon Hunter or all things customization, I'll add to the complexity factor in classes:

I think some specs that are more complex than others -- or at least more complex damage rotations - should perform better than other specs.

But not too much.

Feral spec for Druids have gone through many ups and downs but the spec itself still remains one of the more complex specs to perform. The "risk versus reward" nature should be as rewarding as its punishing but it seems in this patch Feral is more punishing than its rewarding. Hell that's the reason I had to switch to Balance in order to stay somewhat competitive with other specs to get a spot in heroic raids.

And honestly I can't really think of any other spec that has a complex play style.

[Gaidax]

This is a big game for a lot of players with various interests. I think it's good for each class to have a range of options available that are viable enough to leave for the player to decide what to do with it.

This naturally means gameplay difficulty or complexity, which imo is adjusted ok with talents to suit people's tastes. Some classes/specs are inherently more complex and some are easier and talents can be used to adjust that to some extent. That's why there are 36 specs to begin with - some are baseline more complex, that the others and often this complexity is personal too - gameplay that feels natural to a person vs one that feels foreign.

The big issue is balance, unfortunately talent balance is lacking so it hurts that idea.

[Kithelle]

Its actually insane that people consider Demon Hunter have difficult talent spec.

I've never seen anyone say it's hard, just that unlike with many specs you sometimes actually have a choice that affects your play style. Where as with most other specs it's typically cookie cutter...

[arkanon]

There are some intricacies.

For example with Immolation Aura and Demonic Appetite and Demonic

You need to first fill your rage bar
Then use eye beam
Then immolation aura
Deathsweep and Anihilation spam and catch orbs...8 seconds of spam while in Meta form

If you do a eye beam with little to zero rage...congratulations...you just played yourself

"eye beam with zero rage"

First off, its called Fury, not Rage. Second off, you cannot do it with zero, it has a cost.

And lastly, what you described is class 101 stuff - there is nothing intricate or difficult about it. It is literally just "wait for X fury (not rage, remember, wrong class) before pressing buttons"

[Big Thanks]

"eye beam with zero rage"

First off, its called Fury, not Rage. Second off, you cannot do it with zero, it has a cost.

And lastly, what you described is class 101 stuff - there is nothing intricate or difficult about it. It is literally just "wait for X fury (not rage, remember, wrong class) before pressing buttons"

Thats was some intense nitpicking that almost gave me an aneurism because my eyes were rolling so far back into my brain

My point is that DH requires a brain to play.

[arkanon]

Thats was some intense nitpicking that almost gave me an aneurism because my eyes were rolling so far back into my brain

My point is that DH requires a brain to play.

Nitpicking? You are trying to talk about the "intricacies" of playing a Demon Hunter. You got the name of the resource wrong, and tried to claim it could be used with zero fury, which is wrong. Roll you eyes all you want, if you are going claim to understand the "intricacies" of playing a class, you have to get the absolute basics right or you just look like a fool.

[Big Thanks]

Nitpicking? You are trying to talk about the "intricacies" of playing a Demon Hunter. You got the name of the resource wrong, and tried to claim it could be used with zero fury, which is wrong. Roll you eyes all you want, if you are going claim to understand the "intricacies" of playing a class, you have to get the absolute basics right or you just look like a fool.

I meant using Eye Beam and ending up with zero rage.
Ofcourse eye beam cant be used with zero rage.
I said in the OP the spec was clunky as hell at start because of it.

[Freighter]

Not to help turn this into yet another thread by Togabito creaming his pants over his love for playing Demon Hunter or all things customization, I'll add to the complexity factor in classes:

I think some specs that are more complex than others -- or at least more complex damage rotations - should perform better than other specs.

But not too much.

Feral spec for Druids have gone through many ups and downs but the spec itself still remains one of the more complex specs to perform. The "risk versus reward" nature should be as rewarding as its punishing but it seems in this patch Feral is more punishing than its rewarding. Hell that's the reason I had to switch to Balance in order to stay somewhat competitive with other specs to get a spot in heroic raids.

And honestly I can't really think of any other spec that has a complex play style.

Huh? I've checked what I should do as feral in sims and winged it and I'm pulling like 2k less than a sim. Doesn't really seem complex.

[arkanon]

I meant using Eye Beam and ending up with zero rage.
Ofcourse eye beam cant be used with zero rage.
I said in the OP the spec was clunky as hell at start because of it.

this is your quote "If you do a eye beam with little to zero rage...congratulations...you just played yourself"

In no way are you talking bout "ending up with zero rage (lol, FURY)"
You are still calling it RAGE.

Just stop - leave the class advice to the people who actually have even a rough idea of how to play the class. Its fine to not know a class inside out, its fine to be as casual as you want, and its fine to not even care if you know how to play the class optimally or not. But i do think its important that we leave the advice to the people who know what they are talking about.

[Big Thanks]

this is your quote "If you do a eye beam with little to zero rage...congratulations...you just played yourself"

In no way are you talking bout "ending up with zero rage (lol, FURY)"
You are still calling it RAGE.

Just stop - leave the class advice to the people who actually have even a rough idea of how to play the class. Its fine to not know a class inside out, its fine to be as casual as you want, and its fine to not even care if you know how to play the class optimally or not. But i do think its important that we leave the advice to the people who know what they are talking about.

You are nitpicking
I meant using eye beam and ending with zero FURY.

If you you do eye beam with LITTLE..................(pause)
To zero...................(pause)
FURY

Everyone understood what i said, but you had to nitpick.

[arkanon]

You are nitpicking
I meant using eye beam and ending with zero FURY.

If you you do eye beam with LITTLE..................(pause)
To zero...................(pause)
FURY

Everyone understood what i said, but you had to nitpick.

Again, you cannot "do" eye beam with ZERO fury. It requires 30 Fury. This new......PAUSE.......explanation doesnt help to clarify anything, only that you have no clue.

[Calfredd]

There are some intricacies.

For example with Immolation Aura and Demonic Appetite and Demonic

You need to first fill your rage bar
Then use eye beam
Then immolation aura
Deathsweep and Anihilation spam and catch orbs...8 seconds of spam while in Meta form

If you do a eye beam with little to zero rage...congratulations...you just played yourself

You didn't really describe how DH is hard just some basic rotational stuff.