[8.2] Eternal Palace - World First Thread

[Relapses]

Also I think they had the biggest impact on how modern raiding developed and shaped up to be, which ironically probably also killed their guild
in the end?

From what I understand it was general pickiness on Paragon's part. They recruited almost exclusively Finnish players which greatly restricted their pool of candidates. (IIRC comms were in Finnish not English?) That was the reason they went 10M and I'm sure it contributed to their disbanding.

[Hawthorne Wipes]

So they talked about the meme regarding all the breaks and apparently most of the time it was to deal with weakauras not working properly/adding new stuff, etc.. and that they'll probably put someone outside the raid team to check all the auras during progression so they don't have to stop that much next race.

[Ellger]

Don't forget to include that Method exploited a bug to get their fist Court kill instead of waiting for it to be fixed

As did everyone else that killed it first week ?

[Draxia]

I still think Paragon in Firelands is the most dominant a guild has been basically ever though, unless I'm forgetting something obvious. Maybe Paragon's Lich King kill was on the same level. Really explosive and dominant but ultimately rather short reign.

Also I think they had the biggest impact on how modern raiding developed and shaped up to be, which ironically probably also killed their guild
in the end?

Agreed. People who wank the Method "world first and world second" kills should go check
https://www.wowprogress.com/achievement/5803

Paragon basically died because lots of people left and they couldn't get 20 people anymore who would meet the high standards that they had set themselves. There was the discussion if they should go "international" (not just Finnish) but decided no. Eventually their guild leader Seita got his standard of Finnish teams in pro Overwatch (contenders wins and I think now in Paris OWL?)

[Keysta99]

Paragon > Method

Paragon got world first Lich King during WOTLK which had the highest sub count in WoW history. Which means Paragon had the highest number of competiton.

Do the math idiots.

[stevenho]

Also I think they had the biggest impact on how modern raiding developed and shaped up to be, which ironically probably also killed their guild
in the end?

^^Truth.
They came with a new level of prep that allowed them to dominate for a short while, but soon others caught up and things went back to how they were.

[Draxia]

From what I understand it was general pickiness on Paragon's part. They recruited almost exclusively Finnish players which greatly restricted their pool of candidates. (IIRC comms were in Finnish not English?) That was the reason they went 10M and I'm sure it contributed to their disbanding.

Yeah It wasn't about being picky or nationalistic or anything like that, just a 100% Finnish guild with 100% Finnish voice comms. There are bunch of other such guilds in Europe (some language other than English), they just aren't close to world firsts.

[WhatIsLegion]

As did everyone else that killed it first week ?

Uhh no, it was fixed before then.

[Kor]

^^Truth.
They came with a new level of prep that allowed them to dominate for a short while, but soon others caught up and things went back to how they were.

Others didn't "catch up" with Paragon. Paragon simply was forced to bow out due to being a Finnish language guild and the limited recruitment pool that came with it.

[WhatIsLegion]

^^Truth.
They came with a new level of prep that allowed them to dominate for a short while, but soon others caught up and things went back to how they were.

It wasn't that they caught up, they just didn't want to go international. I have no doubt that Paragon would have continued dominating with their leadership had they gone international.

[Mardux]

Paragon > Method

Paragon got world first Lich King during WOTLK which had the highest sub count in WoW history. Which means Paragon had the highest number of competiton.

Do the math idiots.

Sub count doesnt equal difficulty. Lol.

[Woobels]

From what I understand it was general pickiness on Paragon's part. They recruited almost exclusively Finnish players which greatly restricted their pool of candidates. (IIRC comms were in Finnish not English?) That was the reason they went 10M and I'm sure it contributed to their disbanding.

They did, which is rough when raid times keep going up and up. I think they put "split raiding" on the map too by utilizing alts in WotLK (though other guilds had done I believe just not as high profile with pay off)

Also not trying to devalue Method or anything.

[stevenho]

Others didn't "catch up" with Paragon. Paragon simply was forced to bow out due to being a Finnish language guild and the limited recruitment pool that came with it.

Nah, they came back to the real WF race (20m), got beat multiple times, then they quit.

[Ellger]

Uhh no, it was fixed before then.

It was fixed on wednesday of second week

[Life-Binder]

Paragon > Method

Paragon got world first Lich King during WOTLK which had the highest sub count in WoW history. Which means Paragon had the highest number of competiton.

Do the math idiots.

award for dumbest post of the week goes to ...



Method > Paragon - more WFs (including beating Paragon themselves in WoD), longer "reign", end of story


Method can win 10 more tiers and paragon fanboys will still claim Paragon numba wan

[Relapses]

Yeah It wasn't about being picky or nationalistic or anything like that, just a 100% Finnish guild with 100% Finnish voice comms. There are bunch of other such guilds in Europe (some language other than English), they just aren't close to world firsts.

Gotcha. I'm American but of Finnish heritage so I always rooted for Paragon.

[TJ]

Doubtful, the game was easier when Paragon were on top

Game was harder before, it's easier now. Doesn't matter regardless, Paragon would beat Method no matter how hard it is/was because that's how much better they were.

Different guilds for different times. Paragon was awesome, but they would have a very hard time building a roster with the time requirements that exist in world first raiding right now.

Paragon's reign was also very short lived, basically 4 tiers. They took over in TOC, cemented it by ICC, lost in in Dragon Soul when they got banned, and disbanded.

How is the requirements different today than before? They always raided for a ridiculous amount of hours and pulls.

They were at the top in the game's peak, though, in terms of playerbase and competition, there were so many good guilds that were getting world firsts in say tier 11 and right behind others. Just have to look at how much quicker they killed Lich King and Ragnaros, complete unrivaled dominance. They also didn't disband in Cata and didn't become number 1 until tier 10 ICC.

Lmao no, and Methods continued longass domination is > Paragon or any other guilds WoW accomplishments overall

Facts


Method also got WFs on the bosses, that are hardest mechanically/in execution in WoW raiding history

Lmao yes. Method win at a dead game in comparison, big grats. Put this Method back in Cata and you'd see them getting their ass handed to them. Remember that this Method is a merger with Rapid Eye Movement who were a top 25 (?) guild. The game is way easier in comparison, my nan could play the game now because everything is easier and simplified for you.

Method can never get near to the domination shown by Paragon. Facts.

- - - Updated - - -

award for dumbest post of the week goes to ...



Method > Paragon - more WFs (including beating Paragon themselves in WoD), longer "reign", end of story


Method can win 10 more tiers and paragon fanboys will still claim Paragon numba wan

It goes to your posts. More WF's because a guild disbanded and no longer competes, solid logic.

[Bakis]

For once NA had a shot and then do what they do best. They choke by making bad deicisions.
Tnnx Limit for having the shot at winning and making the next race actually interesting from the start.

And choke

That being said, I would love to see LIMIT again next time and actually claim the end boss or someone else.
I'm tired of Methods superior support organization and top notch players. Time they get to taste a loss so they come back with fire in their eyes.

/signed a Method fan

[TJ]

Agreed. People who wank the Method "world first and world second" kills should go check
https://www.wowprogress.com/achievement/5803

Paragon basically died because lots of people left and they couldn't get 20 people anymore who would meet the high standards that they had set themselves. There was the discussion if they should go "international" (not just Finnish) but decided no. Eventually their guild leader Seita got his standard of Finnish teams in pro Overwatch (contenders wins and I think now in Paris OWL?)

Also https://www.wowprogress.com/achievement/4584

No one comes close

[cherb]

Game was harder before, it's easier now. Doesn't matter regardless, Paragon would beat Method no matter how hard it is/was because that's how much better they were.



How is the requirements different today than before? They always raided for a ridiculous amount of hours and pulls.

The game was definitely not harder before. Every final boss of this expansion, G'huun, Jaina, Uunat, Azshara, are all harder than any final boss was during Wotlk or cata or MoP. The requirements are also way different now. Raiding requirements go way beyond just raiding insane hours. The prep that is put in during split raids, or AP farming, is so much more of a time sink than back then.