Whats with Requiring Engineering?

[Cruor]

I cleared Naxx world 4th in Vanilla. I don't think many of us at all were engineering. Keep in mind, people were mostly new to raiding in Vanilla (a few EQ people, I was from DAoC but WoW was very different) so people sucked... a lot of people clicked abilities, didn't use macros, didn't have programmable 12 button mice, etc, and we beat it. Vanilla raiding is very easy vs Mythic Wralords/Legion etc. I am all for min maxing - When it's needed. It is not needed for Vanilla content. People are going to blow through raids like a .50 rounds thought cardboard. NOBODY cares if you kill a boss in 90 seconds, or 95 seconds. Your time to get world firsts was 15-14 years ago... you missed the boat.

Engineering gives: Goblin Sapper Charge: 450-700 damage in fire, 5 min CD, and puts other explosives on CD. So yeah, if 40 people use it, 18k-28k damage. Do you really NEED to cheese Vanilla? Its like requiring people to to this in Normal/Heroic difficulty in live... why? If you can't beat it without little tricks you are the problem. Battle Chicken: Gives Battle Squak, 5% increased attack speed... but here is the thing: It takes up a trinket slot. There are some really nice trinkets out there already. Lastly, I have to go off memory of 14 years ago vs private server videos. In the videos I watched bosses drop in like 30 seconds. That doesn't look fun to me... like a warrior barely even gets to execute. You want it to be FASTER than that? If anything, bosses need like a 20% HP buff over Vanilla just because people know how to play now.

So to sum up:

Min maxing on Mythic difficulty for a tiny bonus on content that is not already widely understood going for a world first? - Yes, 100% understand.

Min maxing on content that is 1) Easy to begin with 2) Already beaten by 2006 3) Rebeaten 100's of times by people on private servers 4) People are much better overall now. - LoL No. You are trying to kill a mouse with a MOAB, it isn't needed.

Edit: Yeah you can equip the chicken trinket, use it right before the pull then put on a better trinket but again its just a pain that isn't needed for easy content.

[Fistfighter]

You are forgetting that a huge amount of tbe playerbase LOVES collecting BiS and min maxing and scoring highest/fastest log scores.

[Cruor]

You are forgetting that a huge amount of tbe playerbase LOVES collecting BiS and min maxing and scoring highest/fastest log scores.

Right, I do too but 450-700 damage on a 5 min CD isn't going to put you over the top. That's like 1 white hit. Plus anyone can see if its just meter padding.

[cface]

These people are a bunch of extreme tryhards, and that is not what most people loved about vanilla, or why at least me, is attracted to vanilla. (I'm not bashing people min/maxing to the extreme in retail.)

One of the criteria for me joining a vanilla guild, is that it's playerbase is not a bunch of logging whores.
Having a beer, relaxing and feeling the atmosphere of being in a community slaying dragons, is all it takes to actually plow through the content at a decent pace.

And I would say a rather small amount of the playerbase loves min/maxing. Me quickly simming something for both m+ and bossfights doesn't really put me in that category, I'm ok with purple logs as well.

[klaps_05]

What you did back then is irrelevant. Today is about min/maxing and being efficient with your playtime.

[Thunderball]

Why require engineering? A lot of resources in vanilla are situated in the open world and you have to fight for them. Also, engineering is the only profession that actually affects your performance, outside of tailoring for casters. At last, it's pretty cheap to level.

If you think that engineering is some tiny bonus that you wont ever notice - you're mistaken. Imagine being unable to enter raid without dying and losing world buffs? That's the reality of people having engineering vs not.

[Gavll]

The thing is people do care who gets the new "world first". People cared enough on PServers to get the server first that they practiced on other PServers! Think about that.

"World first" race will be a thing for AQ40 and Naxx, even if it's "who can down all bosses within 4 hours of release".

[taishar68]

Some care, some don't. More power to both.

[mmocfd1b0ab5a3]

It's all about the people you are playing with. In vanilla if you played with min/maxers you probably min/maxed as well.
You said you were bad so it's understandable you didn't care about that stuff.

It's same nowadays, I have many friends who are casual and new to this game and they don't care about min/maxing and no one is forcing them, they are still doing HC just fine. They are on the same boat as you were in vanilla.

[JuanSR]

Engineering is more useful in PvP scenario. Of course you can use grenades or sappling charges to AoE on Dungeons or Raids if u are, for example, a Rogue who has no AoE apart from bladeflurry.

But Engineering shines in a PvP aspect. Eng gives you stuns on range, sprint, charge, even magic reflect with trinkets (frost, fire, shadow), also mind control for fun, roots, etc.

Imagine a Rogue with/without Eng vs a Mage. Without Eng you cant stun him from range when you are frozen, if he is fire he will try to Sheep->Pyro->PoMPyro, imagine reflecting the second Pyro with trinket and make him take 800-1000 dmge instead of you. Reflecting Fears to Warlocks, rooting Hunters with Net, etc.

And ofc, Gnomish Death Ray, so fucking fun in WPvP. Imagine you are at 50% HP in the world when a Rogue ganks you, he CC chains on you till you are at 8% HP, u are going to die if you are not Eng, but hey, you have Eng, you stun him and you cast Gnomish Death Ray and oneshot the Rogue. Now you can /dance on his corpse.

And the most valuable thing with Engineering is that you can't use Eng items without Eng, but you can use other profession's items. You can use elixirs, health/mana potions, Free Action Potion, etc without being Alchemist. You can buy and wear crafteable item like Devilsaur set without being Leatherworking. You can buy and wear bags without being Tailor, etc.

[Teph]

The only really really huge impact engi has in pve is on Viscidous in aq40. Everyone throws a sapper at the adds (when they are close to the middle and you hit them all) = dead boss in 1 phase. Trivializes an otherwise still annoying boss.

[Oozlz]

The game changes as time goes on, as do all games. People always want to do more/better of something.

[Thelxi]

Once people hit the progression wall there will nothing left to do other than min/max the shit out of your character.

[Zalamander]

Don't forget the repair bot for them naxx wipe raids.

[vsb]

"World first" race will be a thing for AQ40 and Naxx, even if it's "who can down all bosses within 4 hours of release".

if it's truly 4 hours of release (or N gated weeks + 4 hours), it won't be a thing. Nobody cares who cleared world first heroic today or completed world first +10 after new patch. World first only counts, when it took a few hundreds of tries at least.

[ssviolett]

The thing is people do care who gets the new "world first". People cared enough on PServers to get the server first that they practiced on other PServers! Think about that.

"World first" race will be a thing for AQ40 and Naxx, even if it's "who can down all bosses within 4 hours of release".

Exactly. Its a bit annoying when people start to say "lol tryhards, all world firsts was 15 years ago" - why do they care? Looks like they got rejected from some top guild and now whine, looks silly and dumb tbh.

[Jurwi]

if it's truly 4 hours of release (or N gated weeks + 4 hours), it won't be a thing. Nobody cares who cleared world first heroic today or completed world first +10 after new patch. World first only counts, when it took a few hundreds of tries at least.

Yea, I also have really hard time believing that there would be any real "world first" races going on in Classic. It's all done before already. It's exactly the same bosses and raids that were already completed bazillion times. If some people still want to race those ( and I'm 100% sure some will ) world firsts, I don't mind, let them go ahead. I doubt nobody will bother reporting those anywhere though. Besides, the fact that dozens of top guilds will be downing those bosses within few minutes of each other kinda takes away the whole point of it.

[Gavll]

Yea, I also have really hard time believing that there would be any real "world first" races going on in Classic. It's all done before already. It's exactly the same bosses and raids that were already completed bazillion times. If some people still want to race those ( and I'm 100% sure some will ) world firsts, I don't mind, let them go ahead. I doubt nobody will bother reporting those anywhere though. Besides, the fact that dozens of top guilds will be downing those bosses within few minutes of each other kinda takes away the whole point of it.

Surely that makes it more of an exciting race, especially if they're all streaming it?

[Whistl3r]

World first will get a post on the front page here and when the post is no longer top, the names will be forgotten forever. Well worth the effort. The rest of us will spend a couple of years reliving classic and having fun.

[bladeXcrasher]

https://www.wowhead.com/item=10725/g...icken#comments

For that attack speed buff. That's why guilds are requiring engineering.