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  1. #121
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    What % of US conservatives will secretly nod and approve what this guy did? That's the sad/scary part.
    "Conservatives" won't, not really. That's the problem: we aren't dealing with conservatives anymore. What we have now is something different.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Shon237 View Post
    I mean, this is seems to be some damning evidence.



    https://twitter.com/jackiekcalmes/st...690644992?s=19







    https://twitter.com/jackiekcalmes/st...031873537?s=19

    Trump attacks Democrats as if they are the enemy of the people. He stokes the fear and hate by blatantly lying about the illegal voting.

    This has consequences.
    It's funny because conservatives always screech about "don't demonize conservatives or you'll just push more of them towards Trump" yet they are eerily silent when Trump and his supporters demonize liberals.

    Why the double standard?

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    "Conservatives" won't, not really. That's the problem: we aren't dealing with conservatives anymore. What we have now is something different.
    What we have is essentially a mild taliban.

  4. #124
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    Why the double standard?
    Oh, it's way worse than that.

    Team Trump is taking to the airwaves to deny that Trump is downplaying domestic terrorist racist violence. To give Mulvaney some credit, he managed to dodge the "Trump defended Nazis" question.

    Now Trump is obviously trying to get out from under this, which will take a lot of work for his fat ass, because he buried himself deep. Yes, he tweeted thoughts and prayers. He also said he'd offer the full weight of the federal government, which would have been useful, if either shooter had managed to stay free more than a few minutes (the Dayton shooter was killed by police on patrol, and the El Paso shooter surrendered to local police).

    The day that Trump actually makes a campaign promise to root out, reduce or otherwise attack domestic terrorism, maybe his words will sound less hollow. But until then, there are fine people on many sides who will point out "Trump cut the Countering Violent Extremism programs deliberately set up to handle Nazis on American soil" and they will be correct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    What we have is essentially a mild taliban.
    Which is doubly appropriate, as Trump is negotiating with the actual Taliban. But the details are in another thread.

  5. #125
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by breslin View Post
    So its wrong for White people to be opposed to being replaced?
    The idea that "white people" are being "replaced" is white supremacist fearmongering. No one believes that bullshit without being a white supremacist.

    So yes; it's wrong. Not only is it entirely non-factual in any sense whatsoever, it's also predicated on hateful intolerance of non-whites, and nothing deeper or more complex than that.


  6. #126
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    There have been numerous white supremacists directly praising Trump, claiming that they feel he supports what they support and that they feel validated by him.
    Ofocurse they praise him because it is as close to a political win as they've gotten. I doubt his existence gave rise to their opinions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muzjhath View Post
    Except that when someone who holds extreme views or views that most people see as wrong/sick see others promote them even if implicitly and not explicitly they will see that as "I'm right" and be more likely to act on it.
    It's quite basic group psycology.
    It sounds a bit like arguing that "If not for Trump" I'd have green hair, a premium snapchat and be a hardcore feminist, but I heard Trump talk and am now super right-wing."
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Ofocurse they praise him because it is as close to a political win as they've gotten. I doubt his existence gave rise to their opinions.

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    It sounds a bit like arguing that "If not for Trump" I'd have green hair, a premium snapchat and be a hardcore feminist, but I heard Trump talk and am now super right-wing."
    And remember she totes does not like the GOP and the establishment........except when vehemently defending them. Trump has gone out of his way to coddle extremists see Charlottesville, he also cuts funding and any action against them as well as retweeting them and spouting their rhetoric. You have to be a truly blind person not to see the connection between his actions and this surge in violence but that's what happens when you are a "independent" voter.

  8. #128
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    It’s extremely few, but one is too many. The issue with extreme rhetoric pushed by authority, is that it justifies extreme actions of individuals. The number of these people doesn’t change, they simply are encouraged through what they perceive as approval. They all think they will start a race war... going way back to Charles Manson. If we had leadership during Manson murderers that justified their attempt to start a race war, there might have been more copy cats and those being justified to take action. The same thing with Timothy McVeigh. But, instead of leadership that is clear that these attacks are repugnant, as we had from both RNC and DNC... we have Trump, who is perceived to give approval for such extremes. ‘It’s what they have been saying for years... Trump finally saying it, how it is...’ is not that uncommon...
    It's deeper than this, though. They won't "nod and approve" of the shooter's actions, but they will shake their heads and say they understand why he felt he had to take action, or the like (no quotes used because I'm paraphrasing things others have said, but could easily grab specific examples of if I needed to). They'll agree that his manifesto and motivation for action was "correct", and just try and disagree with the specific action taken.

    Often, while also muttering that there's a civil war coming because the oppressed right wing (that's currently in power, natch) isn't gonna take this forever. Which is just a promise that they're going to start murdering people in the future, and a lot of others will, too. Really, anyone making this argument is just arguing about timing, not whether or not it's okay to murder for this cause.


  9. #129
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    As an aside Mexico really should have not trusted white people.

    They essentially allowed white people to resettle in Tejas because of an Indian Empire that was raiding deep into Mexico as far as Mexico city at times. They figured the buffer of racist white people should help with that, in the end, all that ended up happening as they decided they didn't want to be under icky Mexican rule as superior white people, and America wanted to annex them during a period where the south was advocating for slavery expansionism, they even had plans to take Cuba and other countries and turn them into slave states to make sure the North would never have power.
    Are you telling me that the magic soil of Mexico didn't transform the newcomers into Mexicans? How could that be?
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  10. #130
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    White folks aren't being replaced, white folks due to failing economic policies among others often by right wing but not exclusively although republicans have been historically time and time again the worst for the working and middle class, they simply are having less kids.

    Want white folks to have more white babies again? Offer incentives, get decent parental leave and not an US culture that punishes people for having kids, get decent healthcare for yourself and your family, get a decent income at the cost of corporate profits.

    But instead the republicans prefer to blame coloured people, what is normal considering that's what they have been doing the last 50 years or so, create campaigns based on fear and anger.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    And remember she totes does not like the GOP and the establishment........except when vehemently defending them. Trump has gone out of his way to coddle extremists see Charlottesville, he also cuts funding and any action against them as well as retweeting them and spouting their rhetoric. You have to be a truly blind person not to see the connection between his actions and this surge in violence but that's what happens when you are a "independent" voter.
    Man it is so strange that all these independent voters always seem to agree and defend Trump and the Republicans while always arguing against and denouncing the Democrats. Also whenever it is something bad Trump or the GOP does then they always come out and cry about both sides but whenever Democrats or a single Democrat does something bad then they gleefully come out say to look at the Democrats failure or look at how bad the Democrats are. It is almost like they are nothing but Trumpsters who fail miserably at pretending to be fair minded.

  12. #132
    Kevin McCarthy, the GOP House minority leader, also tells Fox News that video games are the problem following the mass shootings in El Paso and Dayton. https://t.co/w7DmlJ9O1K
    https://twitter.com/existentialfish/...125572102?s=19

    They already deflecting. I guess Texas Lt. Governor stated the same.

    Governor of Texas gave the obligatory 'This is no time for politics'.
    Democrats are the best! I will never ever question a Democrat again. I LOVE the Democrats!

  13. #133
    Herald of the Titans D Luniz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pathora44 View Post
    Man it is so strange that all these independent voters always seem to agree and defend Trump and the Republicans while always arguing against and denouncing the Democrats. Also whenever it is something bad Trump or the GOP does then they always come out and cry about both sides but whenever Democrats or a single Democrat does something bad then they gleefully come out say to look at the Democrats failure or look at how bad the Democrats are. It is almost like they are nothing but Trumpsters who fail miserably at pretending to be fair minded.
    no different than the last time they did it
    just Bush was at least in the end of his 2nd term
    they jumped to the "Im an *independent*" claims barely a year into Trump's admin

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Shon237 View Post
    https://twitter.com/existentialfish/...125572102?s=19

    They already deflecting. I guess Texas Lt. Governor stated the same.

    Governor of Texas gave the obligatory 'This is no time for politics'.
    We are getting nothing more then usual crap from Republicans and Conservative talking heads. Video games are to blame, it was nothing more then a lone wolf, there is no connection to any current political party or rhetoric of a current Cheetos colored government official, the shooter is clearly mentally unstable, don't politicize the dead, it is too soon, we have tried everything and nothing more can be done, #thoughtsandprayers.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post

    It sounds a bit like arguing that "If not for Trump" I'd have green hair, a premium snapchat and be a hardcore feminist, but I heard Trump talk and am now super right-wing."
    Stop being disengenious. I said group psycology and pointed to how people who hold extreme views will seek confirmation from behavior with others. Say, people who hit their spouces will see comedy about it and take that as acceptance of spousal abuse, and not get that it's an inditement of it.
    So if you have people on the fringe in ideas, and then add authority figures saying things that mirror their beliefs they will take it that "my thoughts are common, if I act on it people will like it". Or "I'll just do what everyone wants to do". Which stems from "I'm just doing what everyone is doing"/"Everyone thinks like this". Which is what I was pointing towards. Trump sprouting the shit Trump's been sprouting for 40 years from the POTUS' podium enables that sort of thinking.
    - Lars

  16. #136
    When I was in Junior High, I read the book called Helter Skelter. It was about Charlie Manson. It described how Charlie Manson tried to start a race war by painting black panther signs at the murder scenes. He thought he could hide the Manson family which consisted of young hippy kids that had run away to San Francisco in a cave while the race war took place. Charlie Manson then thought he could emerge from the cave, that the black people would have won the race war and would want him to lead because he was white. It's funny how the lunacy of Charlie Manson sounds similar to what you see lunatics like the ones in the El Paso and Dayton Ohio shootings.

  17. #137
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muzjhath View Post
    Stop being disengenious. I said group psycology and pointed to how people who hold extreme views will seek confirmation from behavior with others. Say, people who hit their spouces will see comedy about it and take that as acceptance of spousal abuse, and not get that it's an inditement of it.
    So if you have people on the fringe in ideas, and then add authority figures saying things that mirror their beliefs they will take it that "my thoughts are common, if I act on it people will like it". Or "I'll just do what everyone wants to do". Which stems from "I'm just doing what everyone is doing"/"Everyone thinks like this". Which is what I was pointing towards. Trump sprouting the shit Trump's been sprouting for 40 years from the POTUS' podium enables that sort of thinking.
    It sounds a bit like the belief that if kids see their parents smoking they will smoke; as if the endorsement of a vaunted important authority was the key factor, but in reality it was actually just if their friends smoked or not. Kind of how children speak with an accent and dialect akin to the peer group, not akin to their parents.

    Fringe ideas are not really empowered by Trump; they are empowered mainly by people being able to collaborate and discuss them.

    Right-Wing violence is IMHO a frustration because a lot of mainly White Conservatives don't get that electoral wins don't really matter. They think winning an election can get border and immigration policy they want or leaving the EU for that matter. When really the power lay with the Administrative State and in that generic Liberals (Not to be confused with Leftists) intuitively understand this and are better and weilding power.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Shon237 View Post
    https://twitter.com/existentialfish/...125572102?s=19

    They already deflecting. I guess Texas Lt. Governor stated the same.

    Governor of Texas gave the obligatory 'This is no time for politics'.
    I'm going to assume "our thoughts and prayers go out to the families" followed.
    Just don't reply to me. Please. If you can help it.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The idea that "white people" are being "replaced" is white supremacist fearmongering. No one believes that bullshit without being a white supremacist.

    So yes; it's wrong. Not only is it entirely non-factual in any sense whatsoever, it's also predicated on hateful intolerance of non-whites, and nothing deeper or more complex than that.
    So Natives that feared the Europeans would replace them were just the "white nationalists" of their day. Are you a white nationalist Endus, because the country you live in has a far more strict policy on immigration than the US.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by breslin View Post
    So Natives that feared the Europeans would replace them were just the "white nationalists" of their day. Are you a white nationalist Endus, because the country you live in has a far more strict policy on immigration than the US.
    Natives did not fear white people would replace them. They feared them wiping them out.

    Natives often would accept Europeans and mix with them. If we note the first major issue between the Spanish and natives they found, the issue was that the Spanish kept attacking the Natives and the Natives fought back which the Spanish used to wage a "legal war" and under the law allowed them to subjugate natives and make them slaves as they framed it as a "defense" even though they attacked first.

    Up until about the 16th century the idea of race was very different from what it is today, strong ideas around race and classes did not come about until whites and blacks joined together in America, this rebellion made the slavers change things to make whites always superior to blacks even when they were poor and didn't get what they were promised, that cut down on rebellion were both races worked together. That you could consider being the start of white supremacy in America.

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