Blood of the Enemy

[rohoz]

Your obsession with the BiS is your own undoing.

BotE isn't even the BiS major for any class

[FrostyK]

Pvpers complain about pve
Pvers complain about pvp

meanwhile on rational isle, i don't do shit i don't want to do.


meanwhile, CLF and COF beat 90% of other essences (outliers exist, like ret), and if you don't have r3 of both by now you're slacking off.

you got that info off Icy Vein? lmao.

[Big Thanks]

you got that info off Icy Vein? lmao.

2 things:

Now you know how "we" (pvp'ers) feel like when PvE'ers abuse PvE items in PvP.

Welcome to the club

And its quite great having azerite essenses all over the content in the game to make you step out of your box.
I had tons of fun farming the PvE items as a PvP'er.

Have a nice journey, i know i did.

by: a person with rank 4 blood of the enemy

[f4ncybear]

Interesting how the overwhelming majority of bote dk users are from Asia. If you disable Asia, everyone is using clf+crucible. Europe and NA must be doing a silent protest

[SirCowdog]

2 things:

Now you know how "we" (pvp'ers) feel like when PvE'ers abuse PvE items in PvP.

Welcome to the club

And its quite great having azerite essenses all over the content in the game to make you step out of your box.
I had tons of fun farming the PvE items as a PvP'er.

Have a nice journey, i know i did.

by: a person with rank 4 blood of the enemy

You know what would be better? Letting people obtain the items through more than one means. If Blood of the Enemy is meant to be the primary PVP essence, then make the PVP requirements fairly easy and straightforward to obtain. But also maybe let it drop out of Honorbound/7th legion paragon rewards, or random BG boxes, or only drops after 20 Warfronts(talk about a grueling grind). Make it a pain in the ass to obtain in the ways other than the primary method of that one stupid island pre-made group run.

Because the way it's set up now, it's pretty damn obvious that Blizz is trying to direct people to their failed Island feature. Blood of the Enemy is VERY good for some PVE specs. Do you think it's done that way by mistake? This isn't a case of "we think it's ok for people to have to play all parts of the game to maximize", it's more along the lines of "Shit, our islands aren't being played. How do we bump up those participation figures?"

The problem is that people immediately polarize about these kinds of issues instead of looking at them objectively. Their clique/tribe/group is getting hooked up, so fuck everyone else, right? It's a stupid way to approach these kinds of design issues.

[valky94]

Why is this "locked" behind PVP when it is a perfectly viable if not required for some spec in PVE?

Why have blizzard not learn anything from the past? Nobody wins from this. PVEer hates doing pvp stuffs. PVPers hate random clueless PVEer ruining their Arena/BGs.

Blizzard have no understanding of their player demographic.

If they want a PVP essence, make it only work in PVP.

Why is condensed life force "locked" behind PvE?

[Prime92]

Why is this "locked" behind PVP when it is a perfectly viable if not required for some spec in PVE?

Why have blizzard not learn anything from the past? Nobody wins from this. PVEer hates doing pvp stuffs. PVPers hate random clueless PVEer ruining their Arena/BGs.

Blizzard have no understanding of their player demographic.

If they want a PVP essence, make it only work in PVP.

So why are also BiS azerite pieces locked behind rated pvp AND RNG? Why are PvP trinkets locked behind rated PvP AND RNG? Why are BiS PvP trinkets locked behind PvE content AND RNG? Also why are arguably best looking mounts locked behind high rated PvP and available just to few people? Why are world boss mounts locked behind stupendous RNG? Why we can't buy most things for $$? Why isn't everything for free? Why can't we get everything in the game just by submiting a ticket? Why? WHY? WHY?!

Every such thread can be ridiculoud easily and answer to every single thread of that type is one and simple - because blizz executives do NOT care at all about ingame balance or gamplay itself. All they care about is throwing as much pseudo content as they can with as small cost/resources as possible to feed all the players whose ingame goals are - "story" and collecting pixels. They need those people to stay subbed consistently, which is why we've got stupid shit like recent ridiculous "promotion".

One could also argue they're scared of keeping ideas in the game for too long and repeating systems that existed in the game in the past, which is why for example they refuse to go back to resilience and pvp trinket sets like they used to be in WotLK for example but then again we're playing Legion 2.0 slot machine at the moment, so I've got mixed feelings about that.

[Big Thanks]

You know what would be better? Letting people obtain the items through more than one means. If Blood of the Enemy is meant to be the primary PVP essence, then make the PVP requirements fairly easy and straightforward to obtain. But also maybe let it drop out of Honorbound/7th legion paragon rewards, or random BG boxes, or only drops after 20 Warfronts(talk about a grueling grind). Make it a pain in the ass to obtain in the ways other than the primary method of that one stupid island pre-made group run.

Because the way it's set up now, it's pretty damn obvious that Blizz is trying to direct people to their failed Island feature. Blood of the Enemy is VERY good for some PVE specs. Do you think it's done that way by mistake? This isn't a case of "we think it's ok for people to have to play all parts of the game to maximize", it's more along the lines of "Shit, our islands aren't being played. How do we bump up those participation figures?"

The problem is that people immediately polarize about these kinds of issues instead of looking at them objectively. Their clique/tribe/group is getting hooked up, so fuck everyone else, right? It's a stupid way to approach these kinds of design issues.

I mean, sure, if we look at something we can always say is flawed game design.
Literally nothing is perfect.

Blizzard is making players step out of their stupid little box...we all live in boxes where we refuse to step out of.
And i enjoyed the feeling of doing "random stuff" like the ONE PvP Island expedition.
It was tons of fun...and it only required ONE for the quest.

Then i stepped out of my little box again and did rated arena for the other essense

Then i stepped out of my box again to do a warfront

I enjoyed the little adventures out of my little self made box/prison.
Others might not enjoy ofcourse.

[Tyris Flare]

The only problem with the essence is the same as other essences, namely that the unlocks aren't BoA.

[FrostyK]

Why is condensed life force "locked" behind PvE?

Why is my raid consumables stats boosting item locked behind useless "profession" ? See? I can come up with retarded argument too.

[valky94]

Why is my raid consumables stats boosting item locked behind useless "profession" ? See? I can come up with retarded argument too.

you just called your own argument retarded, gz you played yourself

[SirCowdog]

I mean, sure, if we look at something we can always say is flawed game design.
Literally nothing is perfect.

Blizzard is making players step out of their stupid little box...we all live in boxes where we refuse to step out of.
And i enjoyed the feeling of doing "random stuff" like the ONE PvP Island expedition.
It was tons of fun...and it only required ONE for the quest.

Then i stepped out of my little box again and did rated arena for the other essense

Then i stepped out of my box again to do a warfront

I enjoyed the little adventures out of my little self made box/prison.
Others might not enjoy ofcourse.

Yes, obviously they should be offering these opportunities to get people out of their box. That's a very good part about WoW: That it has so many different things for people to do. I absolutely agree with you in that regard.

But at the same time what the Op said is VERY important. This is a 15 year old game. Players don't need to be coerced into trying new things. They know what they like, and what they don't. Islands are, for the most part, not a very good feature. And as I said, putting Blood of the Enemy not only behind PVP(which people have known they don't like since year 1), AND the island system....is an obvious attempt to push players into that failure of a feature.

It's a nuanced difference, but an important one. Offer new things for players to do instead of trying to trick, manipulate, or push them. This is why I suggested what's probably a better system: Make the easiest, most direct way of obtaining it the PVP island. But if people don't want to do that(for whatever reason), give them a different way.

We already see this with gear. You can raid, M+, WQ, benthic gear, or buy off the AH. The "best" gear for raiding, in fact, is in some cases not even obtained from raiding, and vice-versa with PVP.

Do you understand the context of why things like Blood of the Enemy are manipulative now?

[Big Thanks]

Do you understand the context of why things like Blood of the Enemy are manipulative now?

I understand Blood of the Enemy might be the most troublesome out of all the essenses for someone who absolutely despises PvP.
Unfortunately i think its a matter of something you said previously:

The problem is that people immediately polarize about these kinds of issues instead of looking at them objectively. Their clique/tribe/group is getting hooked up, so fuck everyone else, right? It's a stupid way to approach these kinds of design issues.

I THINK this essense was a means to make our "clique/tribe/group" feel validated...im not sure.
I know i felt validated and was extremely happy because of this. (made a post saying exactly that)

You could be correct that it was a manipulation tactic...but i think it was more a "validation" tool....or hell maybe it was both.

[SirCowdog]

I understand Blood of the Enemy might be the most troublesome out of all the essenses for someone who absolutely despises PvP.
Unfortunately i think its a matter of something you said previously:

I THINK this essense was a means to make our "clique/tribe/group" feel validated...im not sure.
I know i felt validated and was extremely happy because of this. (made a post saying exactly that)

You could be correct that it was a manipulation tactic...but i think it was more a "validation" tool....or hell maybe it was both.

When one of the biggest criticisms of WoW is how toxic the community is getting, why would it be a good idea to reinforce cliques and exclusivity like that?

I'm sorry, you might like Blood of the Enemy and how it's obtained because you're getting what you want, but then you'd also be guilty of EXACTLY the reason why I was saying it was a bad way to implement it. Stop and think outside of your box and try to see why other people would be upset about this. And consider careful what I said about having other ways of obtaining it....OBJECTIVELY. As in, without your bias of being a PVP player.

[Big Thanks]

When one of the biggest criticisms of WoW is how toxic the community is getting, why would it be a good idea to reinforce cliques and exclusivity like that?

I'm sorry, you might like Blood of the Enemy and how it's obtained because you're getting what you want, but then you'd also be guilty of EXACTLY the reason why I was saying it was a bad way to implement it. Stop and think outside of your box and try to see why other people would be upset about this. And consider careful what I said about having other ways of obtaining it....OBJECTIVELY. As in, without your bias of being a PVP player.

I just think you are overthinking this.
Sure, a more "perfect" system could be in place...but isnt when we start trying to make WoW a perfect environment for everyone when the game starts feeling...bland? Without charisma?

This all falls into the same old war of "prestige and elitism VS casual and everyone should be happy"

I know WoW nowadays follows a "everyone should be happy" disgn philosophy...but i cant help myself thinking like the old ways of oldschool MMORPG's with "prestige, elitism and tribalism" design choices.
I just think it makes things more interesting IMO

My philosophy is:
"If no one is left out...then its not EPIC content"

In order for something to be "epic" in a videogame, following the rules of logic, it must first be "hard" in some way to obtain...preventing everyone from aquiring it.

You want a "perfect" design where everyone is left IN.
I strongly believe in the opposite. We should avoid "perfect" worlds where everyone is able to aquire everything.

Sorry if i somehow turned our conversation into a different topic. I just thought your ideal "solution" as something ive been fighting against in WoW's design choices.

Yeah, its kinda messed up, tribalism, elitism and prestige...but its the design i fell in love with as a kid and i cant help loving it.

[Shaetha]

Pvpers complain about pve
Pvers complain about pvp

meanwhile on rational isle, i don't do shit i don't want to do.


meanwhile, CLF and COF beat 90% of other essences (outliers exist, like ret), and if you don't have r3 of both by now you're slacking off.

not having rank 3 of condensed life force is far from slacking off. Clearing heroic every week since raid release is above and beyond as well.

[Hittion]

I miss when talents were given out for leveling not as time grinds every patch.

[SirCowdog]

I just think you are overthinking this.
Sure, a more "perfect" system could be in place...but isnt when we start trying to make WoW a perfect environment for everyone when the game starts feeling...bland? Without charisma?

This all falls into the same old war of "prestige and elitism VS casual and everyone should be happy"

I know WoW nowadays follows a "everyone should be happy" disgn philosophy...but i cant help myself thinking like the old ways of oldschool MMORPG's with "prestige, elitism and tribalism" design choices.
I just think it makes things more interesting IMO

My philosophy is:
"If no one is left out...then its not EPIC content"

In order for something to be "epic" in a videogame, following the rules of logic, it must first be "hard" in some way to obtain...preventing everyone from aquiring it.

You want a "perfect" design where everyone is left IN.
I strongly believe in the opposite. We should avoid "perfect" worlds where everyone is able to aquire everything.

Sorry if i somehow turned our conversation into a different topic. I just thought your ideal "solution" as something ive been fighting against in WoW's design choices.

Yeah, its kinda messed up, tribalism, elitism and prestige...but its the design i fell in love with as a kid and i cant help loving it.

No no no. You're making the logical mistake of turning this into a discussion avout absolutes. I never used the phrase "perfect".

Think of it this way: A sandwich doesn't need to be dropped on the ground and covered with mold for it to be bad. It could just be Franz white bread with almost no nutritional value, and a single piece of processed "meat product".

So if I suggest that using whole wheat bread, lettuce or spinach with tomatoes and roast beef, might be better...Im not asking for a "perfect" sandwich. I'm just saying that there are better ways than the bare minimum.

The current system of acquiring essences is....ok. It's not the worst thing ever, but there are PLENTY of ways it could be better.

Also...the EPIC feeling you're talking about promoting is squarely in the realm of those rank 4 special animations and such. That's the entire point of the rank 4. You want exclusive awesome cool rewards to make you feel epic, that exists at the top end. But it has no business being used as an argument or barrier at the entry level.

[rohoz]

not having rank 3 of condensed life force is far from slacking off. Clearing heroic every week since raid release is above and beyond as well.

EP isn't hard.
Do you what, pug everything? You in some beer league guild that can't do H Azshara? If those are your answers, obtaining "bis" isn't something you need to be worried about cus you aint gonna be able to experience any content where you need anything "good"

Just stick to your focusing iris, which you should also have r3 by now.

- - - Updated - - -

you got that info off Icy Vein? lmao.

try logs, and bloodmallet which sims all the essences for every dps spec

But show me a 100 parse with BoTE major, pal.

[Powerogue]

I think it's a necessary component of what makes the system interesting. Are you asking for Legiondaries instead, which you could obtain all of them from anything through pure RNG? Nobody liked that system.