Epic Games says enough is enough

[Odintdk]

These are developers, not PR people, and they don't have a PR team supporting them to advise them on things like this.

I don't think it takes professional training as a PR, to learn how to speak to and address other human beings in a proper manner. Let alone those who supported your project via Patreon over (4?) years. Not to mention these devs spoke out that way PREEMPTIVELY and during their initial announcement of their exclusivity deal, and basically told people to go Epic or go fuck themselves. You should look up and read some of their public discord responses to these same supporters.

Also this whole "help the poor devs" thing is beyond annoying at this point. Whether it's indie or triple A devs, it does not matter, the video game industry is built as MUCH on the developers time and effort in making video games, as it is on the consumer's money in supporting it. Both are dependent on one another. This means our convenience and voice as gamers is at the very least, as important as those devs'.

Now seeing some devs fail and are unable to reach finish lines on their projects, is quite normal in Today's gaming industry. Nowadays there are far too many games being released for any single person to play even HALF of them, and if one, two or a few of these indie devs suddenly close shop and stop creating projects because they're incompetent or couldn't find enough funding then tough shit. That's the nature of business everywhere. There's simply far too many OTHER games and other devs who are successful, well funded, know what they're actually doing, for me to care about the few who require this "help" from us the gamer population, in which this asshole spoke down on and described as "entitled babies" and "toxic gamers". Also made sure he generalized very well in doing do. I genuinely don't give a fuck if he was financially struggling or whatever as a result. Not is it upon gamers to take responsibility in supporting them, nor support Epic's decision in funding them either. They could both fuck right off, permanently.

And based on what I've seen, it isn't their community that's pissed about this. It seems more that it was people outside of their community that were pissed.

Again, when he used this "Gamers™" thing, and generalized while directing his several insulting statements, he basically addressed the entire community, and not just his own game's supported/fans. The backlash from EVERYBODY was very well warranted. I don't feel a single drop of empathy for that asshole nor his partner.

I also personally could care less about how much you and a few others here like to "Defend" Epic's BS, anti consumer practices. I will vote with my hard earned money. Yet it's every single one of us so called "Gamers™" right to voice our feedback in any way, shape or form we deem appropriate. We're not getting these games for free, nor are these devs a fucking charity. It's about time they started acting like it.

[Xath]

And yet they really want to force themselves into this toxic environment with all those horrible people. I wonder why...

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I was not talking about humble bundle.

Then what are you talking about because I have never seen straight up free games on steam outside of the f2p stuff with microtransactions which is free everywhere.

[Jester Joe]

Also this whole "help the poor devs" thing is beyond annoying at this point. Whether it's indie or triple A devs, it does not matter, the video game industry is built as MUCH on the developers time and effort in making video games, as it is on the consumer's money in supporting it. Both are dependent on one another. This means our convenience and voice as gamers is at the very least, as important as those devs'.

You're truly overstating your value here as the customer.

Yes, money is important to the company as they have to make something back to make the investment worth it.

But no, as far as the industry goes, you're not even coming close to how much effort and work the devs are putting into it.

[Odintdk]

You're truly overstating your value here as the customer.

Yes, money is important to the company as they have to make something back to make the investment worth it.

But no, as far as the industry goes, you're not even coming close to how much effort and work the devs are putting into it.

The money they OPERATE on (and every business operates with money), comes directly or indirectly from the people who consume the product. It does not really take a discussion to figure that out. Video game developers do not operate without money. They don't do this for the sheer passion of it.

Again, if the devs aren't able to put in the effort to create the product we as consumers want, then they're not cut out for this field of production, and can rightfully and sincerely fuck off. Plenty of other games, from proper devs who respect their audience out there. Plenty of fish in the sea.

[Jester Joe]

The money they OPERATE on (and every business operates with money), comes directly or indirectly from the people who consume the product. It does not really take a discussion to figure that out. Video game developers do not operate without money. They don't do this for the sheer passion of it.

Again, if the devs aren't able to put in the effort to create the product we as consumers want, then they're not cut out for this field of production, and can rightfully and sincerely fuck off. Plenty of other games, from proper devs who respect their audience out there. Plenty of fish in the sea.

Except we have a company here who just had their entire game funded basically by another game company.

So try again. There's a point you have to realize they have shareholders, investors, and so on and so forth.

All people that are helping to get the game out. Only once the game is actually done do you come into play.

This would be like claiming you're as important as a farmer to agriculture, because you buy their milk.
It's just an inflated value of self worth, which made people mad to hear from the dev even despite the fact that it's the truth.

[Rogalicus]

Then what are you talking about because I have never seen straight up free games on steam outside of the f2p stuff with microtransactions which is free everywhere.

Age of Wonders 3
For Honor
GRID 2
Stories: The Path of Destinies
A Story About My Uncle
Kholat

Do I need to continue?

[Odintdk]

Except we have a company here who just had their entire game funded basically by another game company.

So try again. There's a point you have to realize they have shareholders, investors, and so on and so forth.

All people that are helping to get the game out. Only once the game is actually done do you come into play.

This would be like claiming you're as important as a farmer to agriculture, because you buy their milk.
It's just an inflated value of self worth, which made people mad to hear from the dev even despite the fact that it's the truth.

Except 7 million of that (as far as I read), and the original funding in the first place, came from your regular average Joe gamer supporter. Also Epic and their like (investors), wouldn't have even seen this project nor considered it, if the project hadn't been made possible, and brought to the spotlight by said original funding.. So try again.

[Jester Joe]

Except 7 million of that (as far as I read), and the original funding in the first place, came from your regular average Joe gamer supporter. Also Epic and their like (investors), wouldn't have even seen this project nor considered it, if the project hadn't been made possible, and brought to the spotlight by said original funding.. So try again.

You really just ignored half of my post to try to echo back what I said?

How do you think companies made games before Kickstarter?
It's not like they made a game at that point, so they had no income from the "customers that are so important".

Almost as if investors were still around. And again, don't ignore stocks either.

Lastly, your own claim was shot in the foot if you read the actual blog the devs put out for this game because they quite clearly mention several times being already at the limit of breaking even, which isn't good. Epic was the one that came in and helped them out there.

[Katchii]

These are developers, not PR people, and they don't have a PR team supporting them to advise them on things like this.

And based on what I've seen, it isn't their community that's pissed about this. It seems more that it was people outside of their community that were pissed.

Wasn't meaning to imply that a PR team had anything to do with this. I think that may be precisely why it's being received with such mixed reviews.

The message they intended to send with that light hearted joking blog post just didn't seem to go over well with some folks.

The message i got from that post wasn't a positive one, from a consumer perspective. It boiled down to, we made this decision because it makes sure we get money, if you don't like it, get over it.

I understand from a business perspective why they'd want to or even need to make that decision, because you need money to make a game for a variety of reasons. It made it seem like the advantages from getting that money were secondary, and flat out getting paid for their work so far was their primary concern.

Just rubbed me the wrong way.... I get what they were saying, but there are less controversial ways of going about it.

That said, I didn't even know WTF Ooblets was until this whole thing blew up so it's not like I care at all so I'm obviously not their target audience.

[Odintdk]

You really just ignored half of my post to try to echo back what I said?

How do you think companies made games before Kickstarter?
It's not like they made a game at that point, so they had no income from the "customers that are so important".

Almost as if investors were still around. And again, don't ignore stocks either.

Lastly, your own claim was shot in the foot if you read the actual blog the devs put out for this game because they quite clearly mention several times being already at the limit of breaking even, which isn't good. Epic was the one that came in and helped them out there.

I did not ignore anything of substance, because shareholders, investors and the like, all spend money in expectation of MAKING money (from the product selling to consumers. Gamers in this case). It's a business, and creating a new product is almost always a gamble. Epic "saving them" is of very little significance to me, because whether they could or couldn't finish their little game, is not a big deal for me (and most others). Again: plenty of choices from other, infinitely better devs.

[Jester Joe]

I did not ignore anything of substance, because shareholders, investors and the like, all spend money in expectation of MAKING money (from the product selling to consumers. Gamers in this case). It's a business, and creating a new product is almost always a gamble. Epic "saving them" is of very little significance to me, because whether they could or couldn't finish their little game, is not a big deal for me (and most others). Again: plenty of choices from other, infinitely better devs.

So we've come full circle.

To continue the analogy of farming, you are as important to the "gaming industry" as a cow is to agriculture.

The farmer puts in all the work, the farmer manages it all.
Just like the devs and companies do. Our spot is only to pay or don't pay.

Again, as I've said several times now and you avoid it, to think you're on a even field as the devs in importance is just arrogant and extremely naïve to how much work and effort they put into their passion.

[Ahlae]

1% of the gamers say shit like that. But sure, apparently by peoples logic because maybe 1% or less of people are murderers all should be treated like one.

These people antagonized the gaming community with snark and in general being rude and toxic and then played the victim card.

Every person that has said "Gamers are toxic, X and Y" have been found to be exactly those things. Like Evitel.

[Jester Joe]

1% of the gamers say shit like that. But sure, apparently by peoples logic because maybe 1% or less of people are murderers all should be treated like one.

These people antagonized the gaming community with snark and in general being rude and toxic and then played the victim card.

Every person that has said "Gamers are toxic, X and Y" have been found to be exactly those things. Like Evitel.

You quite quickly flipped from saying "it's only 1%" to "but it's justified because they were snarky".

If it's only 1%, then why aren't more people saying the devs didn't deserve rape and murder threats over a bit of snark?

[Ahlae]

You quite quickly flipped from saying "it's only 1%" to "but it's justified because they were snarky".

If it's only 1%, then why aren't more people saying the devs didn't deserve rape and murder threats over a bit of snark?

Mm, actually I didn't say that. But by following your logic, I can report your post for harassment right? Sop, you going to abandon your incorrect words, since it's very incorrect? Curious to see if the mods here are just as bad, or worse than Epic games Tom and all the people writing articles about 'how terrible gamers are'.

They sat there, and punched down on random people multiple times, antagonized people purposefully. Then they were surprised to get punched back harder. Something that wouldn't have occurred if they hadn't punched at all.

[Jester Joe]

Mm, actually I didn't say that. But by following your logic, I can report your post for harassment right? Sop, you going to abandon your incorrect words, since it's very incorrect? Curious to see if the mods here are just as bad, or worse than Epic games Tom and all the people writing articles about 'how terrible gamers are'.

Do you think each of your statements are separate and shouldn't be taken as a single post or something?

You started off saying "it's only 1% who do this, it would be like labeling all people murderers because of 1%"

But then IN THE VERY NEXT LINE, you say "they got this reaction because they agitated the gaming community".

So... Which is it? Is it 1% of people, or are they getting the reaction from the community because of their "snark"?

I'm asking a question, for the second time now.

[Paraka]

There is a staunch, thick line between calling a developer completely useless shitstain and death threats.

But don't be surprised if developers conflate the two (just like anyone else does).

[Ahlae]

Do you think each of your statements are separate and shouldn't be taken as a single post or something?

You started off saying "it's only 1% who do this, it would be like labeling all people murderers because of 1%"

But then IN THE VERY NEXT LINE, you say "they got this reaction because they agitated the gaming community".

So... Which is it? Is it 1% of people, or are they getting the reaction from the community because of their "snark"?

I'm asking a question, for the second time now.

They did get that reaction by attacking an entire community in where that 1% resides. Imagine that, attacking an entire community will cause the 1% crazy part of it to respond. Woah. It's still 1% of the people, and they're getting that reaction from the 1% from having attacked the community in which they reside.

Guess what though? Same thing would happen to really any fanbase of any specific thing. The larger the community, the more you'll get. Even when 1% is still 1%, because numbers.

What they did is basically attacked people, called them names and knew at least a couple online trolls would get whiff and do it just to 'prove them right'.

[Jester Joe]

There is a staunch, thick line between calling a developer completely useless shitstain and death threats.

But don't be surprised if developers conflate the two (just like anyone else does).

The dev posted many messages that he got saying that they'll rape his wife, if they see him in person they'll smash his head into the ground, so on and so forth.

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They did get that reaction by attacking an entire community in where that 1% resides. Imagine that, attacking an entire community will cause the 1% crazy part of it to respond. Woah. It's still 1% of the people, and they're getting that reaction from the 1% from having attacked the community in which they reside.

Guess what though? Same thing would happen to really any fanbase of any specific thing. The larger the community, the more you'll get. Even when 1% is still 1%, because numbers.

And again, that is why I'm saying there's an issue with your logic.

You're saying "it's fine because they were snarky" basically.
"They brought this on themselves".

That's just victim blaming. I'd expect people to be more mature and not think it's "okay" to stoop to death threats

[Ahlae]

The dev posted many messages that he got saying that they'll rape his wife, if they see him in person they'll smash his head into the ground, so on and so forth.

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And again, that is why I'm saying there's an issue with your logic.

You're saying "it's fine because they were snarky" basically.
"They brought this on themselves".

That's just victim blaming. I'd expect people to be more mature and not think it's "okay" to stoop to death threats

I victim blame people playing the victim card after purposefully doing something to evoke the exact response they got, just saying! They said the 'gaming community' is already like that, so they shouldn't be surprised by such a response from the 1% of people that will say anything to evoke a response.

But hey! Even on twitter, I can go under a popular hashtag and find people throwing out death threats getting 50-70+ Likes when they're not gamers and it's not gaming related. But no, gamers are the problem.

[munkeyinorbit]

like, other studios who've done exclusivity deals with epic/ubi/etc have at least had enough honestly to say that they just took the best deal on the table; treat your customers like adults and they may not like the decision but usually they'll understand

ooblets have conducted themselves like dumbshits and deserve 90% of the hate they're getting (not death threats obvs)

They don't deserve any of the hate. Saying they do is the exact opposite of acting like an adult. Why should they treat customers like an adult when they all act like children. The company owes people exactly nothing but noooooooo, gamers are so entitled that it is an outrage when a company doesn't do what they want. How about the gaming community grow the fuck up and act with their wallets. The only thing companies understand.