4 dead, 2 wounded in Southern California stabbings

[pathora44]

It's a great comparison, if a tool is unavailable, people will find other tools, it doesn't stop the root problem. Sorry that you narrow viewpoint can't see that.

With that kind of thinking better to not have any laws then because people will find ways around them. Outlawing murder doesn't stop somebody who wants to murder somebody so better just abolish that law. This is why everyone sees you for the dishonest crap you pull. No one calling for common sense gun laws thinks it will stop all gun violence because we aren't stupid and know people will break the law. You talk in absolutes that if it doesn't stop 100 percent of all gun violence then you shouldn't have it and that is dishonest bullshit you pull to derail topics. The problem is pretty much every one of these mass shootings are committed with legally obtained weapons these guys purchased and people want national databases for gun purchases with a federal standard for all gun purchases. Waiting periods on all guns with registration for the guns to keep track of the guns and so on.

[Ghostpanther]

It's a great comparison, if a tool is unavailable, people will find other tools, it doesn't stop the root problem. Sorry that you narrow viewpoint can't see that.

You are absolutely right. Carry on.

[pathora44]

This kinda goes to show that you can ban every gun in the country there will still be mass killings. If not by a gun by homemade bombs, bladed weapons like knives or swords or axes, blunt weapons like hammers or crowbars. If a psychopath wants to kill a bunch of people he/she will find a way to do it either with a gun or not.

What are you gonna do? Ban everything that could be used as a weapon?

So a person with a sword with a 2 foot range is the same level of danger as somebody with a full automatic rifle with multiple ammo cartridges and a range of 100's of feet? Which one is going to cause more deaths? Which one is far easier to operate and use to efficiently kill multiple people? That is why this comparison is stupid, disingenuous, and always an argument in bad faith. With that kind of thinking, that a person who really wants to kill will still find someway to kill somebody, why not just abolish all laws because laws against murder hasn't stopped people from ever murdering other people so better get rid of that law.

[zenkai]

With that kind of thinking better to not have any laws then because people will find ways around them. Outlawing murder doesn't stop somebody who wants to murder somebody so better just abolish that law. This is why everyone sees you for the dishonest crap you pull. No one calling for common sense gun laws thinks it will stop all gun violence because we aren't stupid and know people will break the law. You talk in absolutes that if it doesn't stop 100 percent of all gun violence then you shouldn't have it and that is dishonest bullshit you pull to derail topics. The problem is pretty much every one of these mass shootings are committed with legally obtained weapons these guys purchased and people want national databases for gun purchases with a federal standard for all gun purchases. Waiting periods on all guns with registration for the guns to keep track of the guns and so on.

I am not against common sense gun laws, I am pointing out that you don't need guns to murder lots of people. Sorry if facts bother you.

[pathora44]

I am not against common sense gun laws, I am pointing out that you don't need guns to murder lots of people. Sorry if facts bother you.

So again, by your standards all laws should be abolished because if they don't stop 100 percent of crimes then they shouldn't be there. Sorry if your horribly flawed disingenuous arguments bothers your so much.

[zenkai]

So again, by your standards all laws should be abolished because if they don't stop 100 percent of crimes then they shouldn't be there. Sorry if your horribly flawed disingenuous arguments bothers your so much.

Where did I say that? You can't win an argument so you make shit up?

By the way do you support the war on drugs?

[omeomorfismo]

Guess we should ban cars, airplanes, propane tanks, etc then.

you can consider to have a test and license for guns maybe...

[united]

time to ban assault knives?

All of the right wingers giddy about this news so they can make this stupid point fail to realize that the number dead could’ve easily reached 10, 15, 20 or more if the guy had an assault weapon.

[Themius]

4 dead, 2 wounded over 2 hours

vs

59 dead, 422 wounded over 10 minutes

Totally the same scope / scale of issue...

/facepalm

4 dead 2 wounded over 2 hours.

vs 9 dead 20 wounded in 32 seconds.

I think people look at this and go "see knives can be bad!" like yeah they can be... but a 2 hour killing spree with a gun is far far far worse. hell a 32 second spree like Dayton is worse.

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So it bothers you that a law-abiding citizen carries a gun? How does the law-abiding citizen carrying a gun have absolutely any bearing on your safety?

Now, if you want to go down a rabbit hole and say if a criminal with a gun gets into a shoot-out with the law-abiding citizen and the law-abiding citizen could accidently shoot you, then sure. But the chance of not only having a criminal start shooting around you *and* a gun carrying law-abiding citizen interacting with them is infinitesimal.

You literally have a *much* higher chance of dying in an airplane while traveling here to visit the nice landscapes and interesting sites, let alone a *much, MUCH* higher chance than that, dying in a crash with the rental car getting to these sites.

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So it's not the deaths themselves, it's the amount of deaths that bother you? That's some sound logic.

The comparison points out time it took to kill that many people less about the number.

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This kinda goes to show that you can ban every gun in the country there will still be mass killings. If not by a gun by homemade bombs, bladed weapons like knives or swords or axes, blunt weapons like hammers or crowbars. If a psychopath wants to kill a bunch of people he/she will find a way to do it either with a gun or not.

What are you gonna do? Ban everything that could be used as a weapon?

Um... can we not agree that a 2 hour gun spree would likely have been worse? Dayton was 32 seconds knife attacks happen China had a mass knife attack where no one died and 36 were injured. If they had guns in place of knives it would have been worse.

The thing is, we know things like this happen, less try to minimize the damage first.

[Daelak]

It's a great comparison, if a tool is unavailable, people will find other tools, it doesn't stop the root problem. Sorry that you narrow viewpoint can't see that.

Bullshit. Making firearms that can kill 9 people and maim 20 more in less than 25 seconds harder to own, there would be no substitute. None.

[Themius]

Bullshit. Making firearms that can kill 9 people and maim 20 more in less than 25 seconds harder to own, there would be no substitute. None.

But a guy with a knife can kill several over hours!

[pathora44]

Where did I say that? You can't win an argument so you make shit up?

By the way do you support the war on drugs?

Saying we should ban cars and other modes of transportation and trying to compare it to guns is extremely disingenuous and is crap way to try to derail a discussion. Cars are far more regulated and controlled then guns where we have made multiples changes to vehicle laws and regulations through the years as problems have arisen. The same can not be said for guns. Hell you have to take a written and physical test per classification of vehicle to prove you can operate said classification of vehicle. This test can be mandated to be retaken every set number of years. Guns on the other hand have no type of regulation. Most states only require a simple background check that isn't national and then they can buy as many guns as they can in that state of all types that can be legally purchased in that state. It is why the vast majority of guns in say Chicago, the typical anti-gun regulations go to example, are bought legally from outside the city and state specifically Indiana with MUCH looser gun regulations. There should be harsher regulations with a national database for background checks and registration for all guns to track. This is why I say your hyperbolic strawman is a disingenuous bad faith argument de-railer.

Also I am very much against the War on Drugs because it is an absolute failure on what is was publicly suppose to do and a smashing success in what it was suppose to do privately. One of Nixon's top advisors came out and said the War on Drugs was always a way to target Blacks and other minorities. Far too much the War on Drugs has harshly punished petty users with horrible sentences that ruin lives. Some people getting years upon years for a few grams of drugs. It has cost us as a country billions upon billions and ruined millions of lives since the 70's. Plus helped in the U.S. destabilizing South American countries.

[zenkai]

Saying we should ban cars and other modes of transportation and trying to compare it to guns is extremely disingenuous and is crap way to try to derail a discussion. Cars are far more regulated and controlled then guns where we have made multiples changes to vehicle laws and regulations through the years as problems have arisen. The same can not be said for guns. Hell you have to take a written and physical test per classification of vehicle to prove you can operate said classification of vehicle. This test can be mandated to be retaken every set number of years. Guns on the other hand have no type of regulation. Most states only require a simple background check that isn't national and then they can buy as many guns as they can in that state of all types within all types. It is why the vast majority of guns in say Chicago, the typical anti-gun regulations go to example, are bought legally from outside the city and state specifically Indiana with MUCH looser gun regulations. There should be harsher regulations with a national database for background checks and registration for all guns to track. This is why I say your hyperbolic strawman is a disingenuous bad faith argument de-railer.

Also I am very much against the War on Drugs because it is an absolute failure on what is was publicly suppose to do and a smashing success in what it was suppose to do privately. One of Nixon's top advisors came out and said the War on Drugs was always a way to target Blacks and other minorities. Far too much the War on Drugs has harshly punished petty users with horrible sentences that ruin lives. Some people getting years upon years for a few grams of drugs. It has cost us as a country billions upon billions and ruined millions of lives since the 70's. Plus helped in the U.S. destabilizing South American countries.

I never said that, I only pointed out that not fixing the root problem will not stop people from committing mass murder. Not sure why you are struggling to understand such a simple concept. If you made guns illegal today, who would lose guns? People who obey the law? Sounds like a great idea.

[D Luniz]

It's not the tool it's the user.

Dont know any "user" that can kill 9 and wound nearly 30 more in 30 seconds with actual tools.

[zenkai]

Dont know any "user" that can kill 9 and wound nearly 30 more in 30 seconds with actual tools.

Then you have a limited imagination. Maybe you should look up the OK City Bomber, not one shot fired, largest domestic terrorist attack. You where probably 2 when it happened, but it happened.

[Ghostpanther]

Dont know any "user" that can kill 9 and wound nearly 30 more in 30 seconds with actual tools.

9/11 terrorists used a tool to kill far more than that in 30 seconds. And yes, cars, trucks, airplanes can be used a tool to use for a specific purpose. A tool is anything a person uses to accomplish a task. Even computers can be a tool.

[Celista]

Then you have a limited imagination. Maybe you should look up the OK City Bomber, not one shot fired, largest domestic terrorist attack. You where probably 2 when it happened, but it happened.

Yeah we should be talking more about bombings in general. We went through a period where we had more bombings than shootings, outside of gang violence. What changed? Was it limiting access to bomb material? Is it the glorification of the Columbine shooters and other mass shooters that led to copycat crimes? Some combination thereof?

My opinion is that people who want to harm will use any weapon available to them and when you limit/ban something, attacks with other weapon types will increase in its place.

[the game]

Dont know any "user" that can kill 9 and wound nearly 30 more in 30 seconds with actual tools.

Here ya go. Pretty sure a license is needed to fly a plane.





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Yeah we should be talking more about bombings in general. We went through a period where we had more bombings than shootings, outside of gang violence. What changed? Was it limiting access to bomb material? Is it the glorification of the Columbine shooters and other mass shooters that led to copycat crimes? Some combination thereof?

My opinion is that people who want to harm will use any weapon available to them and when you limit/ban something, attacks with other weapon types will increase in its place.

we haven't limited access to bomb materials. You can goto lowes, home depot, and walmart and get everything you need.

[Unholyground]

It's not the tool it's the user.

Power does go to many peoples heads quite easily.

[Celista]

we haven't limited access to bomb materials. You can goto lowes, home depot, and walmart and get everything you need.

IIRC there was some change awhile ago about tracking or limiting purchase of materials that could be used for bomb-making that was obtained via online sales. I would look it up but I'm on a work computer at the moment so probably not a good idea, lol.