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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Alteiry View Post
    Nope, you are 100% wrong.
    No I'm not and you should learn what subsidiary is and means. Feel free to actually look this stuff up before speaking about it.

    Acitivision lay's off 800 people (most within blizzard) and yet for some reason you think Activision doesn't own them.


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  2. #202
    Some idiots attacked a Youngblood LEVEL DESIGNER on twitter about the microstransactions in the game. What. Complete. Morons. As I've said elsewhere in the current EPIC Store thread, thats ridiculous. Its like screaming at a retail shop worker about Nestle's scummy actions. MTX are publisher and corperate level issues. Not random devs who are already suffering under the same people responsible for MTX


    Quote Originally Posted by Alteiry View Post
    Yes but actually no, Activision Blizzard was the merger between Activision and Vivendi, Blizzard's former owners. Activision just took Blizzard's name for the sake of marketing, Blizzard Entertainment is still a separate company owned by the new corporate entity known as Activision Blizzard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alteiry View Post
    Nope, you are 100% wrong.

    Activision merged with Vivendi, which transferred Vivendi's ownership of Blizzard Entertainment over to the new merger entity Activision-Vivendi which then promptly changed name to Activision-Blizzard because Blizzard is a better known brand name than Vivendi. Blizzard Entertainment still exists, as they always have, as a separate subsidiary company under Activision-Blizzard's umbrella, just as they did before under Vivendi's umbrella.
    This USED to be true... a few years ago. Not anymore. They sank their talons into Blizz bit by bit during that time.

    People within Blizzard have informed us that the environment has completely changed from "making quality games" and "spit and polish" to "maximum cost cutting" and "counting pennies" with a focus on pumping out as many releases as possible in a year while cutting development times, shortening deadlines and increasing crunch to make up for it. All of this starting when two finance people from Activision were put in charge of Blizzard game design and company policy. There is far less control and input considered from the actual blizzard game designers and veterans.

    Members are expected to make reports on short intervals regarding cost cutting measures and procedures.

    Blizzard is Activision wearing its skin. It's meat, magic and skin are rotting in a shallow grave out back.
    Last edited by Tenjen; 2019-08-06 at 04:33 PM.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenjen View Post
    Some idiots attacked a Youngblood LEVEL DESIGNER on twitter about the microstransactions in the game.
    Because the rage for many isn't to effect positive change, it's the cathartic release of telling someone that they should stick their head in a meat grinder for daring to...work on a videogame they didn't like.

    This is far, far from the first time gamers have harassed someone for something they have no control/involvement with beyond working at the same company, and I hate that it won't be the last, either.

  4. #204
    Old God Vash The Stampede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by themaster24 View Post
    It is sad, though, that for some games, MTX is how they make their money. I would rather a more reliable source of revenue for games, since if you push a studio to be dependent on MTX sales, it can be catastrophic not just for the game, but for the studio itself. A hugely popular, well made game, can be hamstrung by some publishers if it's MTX sales aren't good enough for them. This isn't a unilateral case, but it is a risk that I don't like.
    If your game relies on micro-translations then you made a bad game. Back to Wolfenstein Younblood, we can see certain things done in the game to increase sales, because they knew the game was going to be bad. Like SJW'ing and of course micro-transactions.
    I know I advocate that MTX isn't inherently bad, and I genuinely don't believe it is, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't prefer an alternative. I've just accepted it as something that is just going to be for now, and it does me no good to act as if every instance is the devil. As I said, I would like to see MTX done away with in general, and replaced with a better alternative.
    You'd be the minority.

    What makes it a fact is literally math and science. TV (and internet for that matter) being overpriced to being with doesn't matter. Most companies don't choose to just not raise prices because they are still making profits. At the end of the day, a company is there to make profits, and if an increase in labor, supplies, outsourcing, or whatever it may be, cuts too deeply into their profits, prices go up. It's one of what I believe to be the major flaws in old style Capitalism (that revenue/profits are literally the only thing that matter). AT&T and their cohorts are prime examples of old style Capitalism, and I feel no sympathy for them whatsoever.
    The problem with inflation as I've said is that pay isn't going up nearly as fast and that's a problem. Throw in all the math and science you want, but eventually this disaster of an economy will catch up to it's lies, and inflation is the biggest one. I don't see game studios being less profitable.

    While RE 2 has been extremely popular this year, it's only 5th on the list YTD. July hasn't had any results posted yet, but I presume you are talking about June, where Mario Maker 2 took top honors for the month. You can also expect the chart to change since Madden 20 just released, CoD is coming out soon, etc. Their sales, no matter how crack addled their fans may be, are still relevant.
    The thing about those EA Madden games and CoD games is that nobody can take that market away from them. They will always sell well, and nobody can compete against these products. Companies have tried to take away market share but nobody has come close. So to say that games should aspire to become multiplayer like these games, is giving developers an impossible goal to reach.

    I mean, I never said no one ever played them without someone else. I simply said they were made to be playable with a player 2. These games were huge multiplayer games back in the day. But back then, you were limited to having someone with you to play multiplayer, hence why single player components were so dense in early shooters. Just because a game has the ability to play by yourself doesn't inherently make it a single player game. I can go buy Madden 20 and play only play career mode, but that doesn't mean the game isn't a multiplayer game at its heart.
    Wolfenstein Youngblood did something that Dead Space did years ago, and that's take a single player franchise and made it multiplayer co-op. That failed horribly, and probably killed the franchise. Shoe horning multi-player into a single player game doesn't usually work, and it certainly didn't in Wolfenstein.
    That's just changing goal posts though. You can't just ignore that the impact of CoD's and Madden's of the world. They are just as much a part of the gaming world as something as obscure as Doki Doki Literature Club. The point about all this was sales, and those are the games that bring in insane sales numbers. It's just an unfortunate fact that SP no longer bring in the share of the gaming world they once did. If a major publisher was forced to choose between funding a CoD or a new Bioshock today, they would almost always choose CoD.
    I would choose CoD because I know that people won't stop buying that game. But most game studios aren't EA and Activision and therefore have to make other games. You can't make a CoD clone, because people have tried and failed. Same goes for EA's sports games as no other sports game even comes close in sales. Technically Wii Sports did sell better than any individual EA sports game but Nintendo isn't exactly releasing these once a year to maximize profits. At one point World of Warcraft made a ton of money and many game studios made clones and nearly all of them failed because there is only one World of Warcraft. Success is hard to clone. Ultimately the best selling games of all time are dominated by single player. Duck Hunt outsold any single CoD game ever. New Super Mario Bros. outsold any CoD game. Tetris outsold any one CoD game.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tenjen View Post
    Some idiots attacked a Youngblood LEVEL DESIGNER on twitter about the microstransactions in the game. What. Complete. Morons. As I've said elsewhere in the current EPIC Store thread, thats ridiculous. Its like screaming at a retail shop worker about Nestle's scummy actions. MTX are publisher and corperate level issues. Not random devs who are already suffering under the same people responsible for MTX
    Then who should the people go to complain about it? The person who decided to go with micro-transactions in Youngblood isn't exactly making himself known to the public, and probably doesn't have a Twitter account. If developers involved in games remove themselves from Twitter due to the shame of putting micro-transactions in games, then I consider that a win.
    Last edited by Vash The Stampede; 2019-08-07 at 12:51 PM.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    If your game relies on micro-translations then you made a bad game. Back to Wolfenstein Younblood, we can see certain things done in the game to increase sales, because they knew the game was going to be bad. Like SJW'ing and of course micro-transactions.

    You'd be the minority.


    The problem with inflation as I've said is that pay isn't going up nearly as fast and that's a problem. Throw in all the math and science you want, but eventually this disaster of an economy will catch up to it's lies, and inflation is the biggest one. I don't see game studios being less profitable.


    The thing about those EA Madden games and CoD games is that nobody can take that market away from them. They will always sell well, and nobody can compete against these products. Companies have tried to take away market share but nobody has come close. So to say that games should aspire to become multiplayer like these games, is giving developers an impossible goal to reach.


    Wolfenstein Youngblood did something that Dead Space did years ago, and that's take a single player franchise and made it multiplayer co-op. That failed horribly, and probably killed the franchise. Shoe horning multi-player into a single player game doesn't usually work, and it certainly didn't in Wolfenstein.

    I would choose CoD because I know that people won't stop buying that game. But most game studios aren't EA and Activision and therefore have to make other games. You can't make a CoD clone, because people have tried and failed. Same goes for EA's sports games as no other sports game even comes close in sales. Technically Wii Sports did sell better than any individual EA sports game but Nintendo isn't exactly releasing these once a year to maximize profits. At one point World of Warcraft made a ton of money and many game studios made clones and nearly all of them failed because there is only one World of Warcraft. Success is hard to clone. Ultimately the best selling games of all time are dominated by single player. Duck Hunt outsold any single CoD game ever. New Super Mario Bros. outsold any CoD game. Tetris outsold any one CoD game.



    Then who should the people go to complain about it? The person who decided to go with micro-transactions in Youngblood isn't exactly making himself known to the public, and probably doesn't have a Twitter account. If developers involved in games remove themselves from Twitter due to the shame of putting micro-transactions in games, then I consider that a win.
    It's not out of shame, it's because a loud minority of gamers are unbearable arseholes who think it's acceptable behaviour to harass and behave terribly to another human being because a video game disappointed them. The cherry on top is the fact they're blaming someone who has nothing to do with MTX. Think about that if you ever think games development looks like it lacks creative talent.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    If your game relies on micro-translations then you made a bad game. Back to Wolfenstein Younblood, we can see certain things done in the game to increase sales, because they knew the game was going to be bad. Like SJW'ing and of course micro-transactions.

    You can't say I'm in the minority anymore than I can say you are. There is no statistical figure that has determined how people fall on the issue. Just because a bunch of loud people on the internet decided to be toxic doesn't mean that they are the majority. They are just the loudest.

    The problem with inflation as I've said is that pay isn't going up nearly as fast and that's a problem. Throw in all the math and science you want, but eventually this disaster of an economy will catch up to it's lies, and inflation is the biggest one. I don't see game studios being less profitable.
    Inflation is not contingent on pay going up. Inflation is simply the buying power of a given currency decreasing by proxy of increased costs of goods and services. If, generally speaking, things are 10% more expensive, your $1 now buys 10% less than it did before. That's inflation in it's purest, simplest form. Inflation isn't a lie that gets caught up with, but it is a part of the economic cycle that typically is a part of any given recession. It's why governments make efforts to step in and try to control the rate of inflation, as to prevent really bad recessions.

    The thing about those EA Madden games and CoD games is that nobody can take that market away from them. They will always sell well, and nobody can compete against these products. Companies have tried to take away market share but nobody has come close. So to say that games should aspire to become multiplayer like these games, is giving developers an impossible goal to reach.
    I don't think many players are clamoring for more devs to make CoD/Madden-esque games, but publishers will almost always be keen on the addition of things that are making those, and other games like Fortnite, successful, both critically and financially. Some publishers are extremely heavy handed, some are hands off, then you have those in the middle. It's the nature of the beast, and studios have to follow any demands that their publisher gives, generally speaking, since the publisher is paying for the game.

    Destiny 2 is a prime example of this situation. Bungie, as well as many players, were ok with the original version of the Eververse store in Destiny 1. It was really small in scope and wasn't too wild. With Destiny 2, though, Activision told Bungie that they needed to put more stuff behind the store, push more sales of Silver. Bungie obliged, while at the same time slowly making the system throw more free stuff at the players as a slight act of rebellion. Eventually, Activision decided Destiny wasn't bringing them the kind of revenue they wanted and gave Bungie the option to dissolve their publishing agreement, allowing Bungie to move forward with Destiny 2 and any future games as their own publisher. If you watch Devs from Bungie speak about this, you can see their relief that they are now in charge of all those kinds of Decisions.

    Wolfenstein Youngblood did something that Dead Space did years ago, and that's take a single player franchise and made it multiplayer co-op. That failed horribly, and probably killed the franchise. Shoe horning multi-player into a single player game doesn't usually work, and it certainly didn't in Wolfenstein.
    I never played Dead Space 3, but IIRC, it received generally good reviews, including it's coop. I'll give you, though, that just adding multiplayer or co-op doesn't suddenly make the game better. It can easily have a negative impact on any given game.

    I would choose CoD because I know that people won't stop buying that game. But most game studios aren't EA and Activision and therefore have to make other games. You can't make a CoD clone, because people have tried and failed. Same goes for EA's sports games as no other sports game even comes close in sales. Technically Wii Sports did sell better than any individual EA sports game but Nintendo isn't exactly releasing these once a year to maximize profits. At one point World of Warcraft made a ton of money and many game studios made clones and nearly all of them failed because there is only one World of Warcraft. Success is hard to clone. Ultimately the best selling games of all time are dominated by single player. Duck Hunt outsold any single CoD game ever. New Super Mario Bros. outsold any CoD game. Tetris outsold any one CoD game.
    As far as Nintendo sales, Nintendo has very skewed sales figures since a lot of their games that are in the top of all time, such as Wii Sports, Tetris, Duck Hunt and Super Mario World, were bundled with a console. They then added those bundled sales onto the games total sales figures.

    Other than Nintendo games, your part about copying success is what I'm talking about. Some publishers strive to replicate the things the see in widely successful games like CoD, Fortnite, WoW, etc. They just want to make surefire bets with their money instead of taking gambles, although they don't necessarily realize it's sometimes a bigger risk to try and copy than be original.

    Then who should the people go to complain about it? The person who decided to go with micro-transactions in Youngblood isn't exactly making himself known to the public, and probably doesn't have a Twitter account. If developers involved in games remove themselves from Twitter due to the shame of putting micro-transactions in games, then I consider that a win.
    What does being vitriolic to these people accomplish? They had literally nothing to do with MTX being put into the game. You would be cool if you got death threats because your place of employment made a decision you had nothing to do with? You have a right to be upset and complain, but you do not have a right to act the way people are acting right now to these people. It accomplishes nothing except further fuel the argument that gamers as a whole are violent and toxic. No ones mind will change because people spewed hatred at them like they are now. In fact, any good PR team will spin the living hell out of this and make it into positive publicity for their company. So in reality, doing this could likely have the opposite affect and cause this game to sell even more that it would have originally.

  7. #207
    Old God Vash The Stampede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    It's not out of shame, it's because a loud minority of gamers are unbearable arseholes who think it's acceptable behaviour to harass and behave terribly to another human being because a video game disappointed them. The cherry on top is the fact they're blaming someone who has nothing to do with MTX. Think about that if you ever think games development looks like it lacks creative talent.
    Clearly there's a group of people who want to vent their frustration on someone, that that person got hit with it. Even though that person wasn't involved with the micro-transactions, he certainly agreed to it and facilitated micro-transactions with his involvement. People are legitimately upset and need to vent, and they'll find anyone they can to dump their frustration on. Calling them a minority is just down playing the situation.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    Even though that person wasn't involved with the micro-transactions, he certainly agreed to it and facilitated micro-transactions with his involvement.
    This is the level designer, right? Because folks like that have no involvement with monetization at all, they're building the levels and not working on anything directly related to monetization.

    Where did he "agree" to it beyond working for the company? Because that's hardly an excuse to direct anger at him for something he had no control or involvement with, much less harass him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    People are legitimately upset and need to vent, and they'll find anyone they can to dump their frustration on. Calling them a minority is just down playing the situation.
    They are a minority, like it or not, and they always will be. And if they want to vent, they can vent to each other. They can direct their frustration to official feedback channels rather than individual developers. They can go shout at the clouds, too.

    "Venting" to in-the-trenches developers accomplishes nothing other than harassing someone that works to build the games we enjoy, even if this particular one isn't popular.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Because the rage for many isn't to effect positive change, it's the cathartic release of telling someone that they should stick their head in a meat grinder for daring to...work on a videogame they didn't like.

    This is far, far from the first time gamers have harassed someone for something they have no control/involvement with beyond working at the same company, and I hate that it won't be the last, either.
    There isn't anything that can really be done about that. There are millions if not billions of gamers now. Of course you are going to have the mentally ill and worthless shit stains play games and do/say terrible shit. And even then the real problem isn't with the gamers it's with social media you can't even be sure the people saying shit online even play games/the games they are bitching about. Unless we remove social media this shit will continue and even then you will still have the occasional mentally ill person or d-bag that sends a letter to a company or worse.

  10. #210
    Old God endersblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vineri View Post
    All good, thanks for the PSA. I won't buy this game, or any Bethesda games, actually.

    They might not have realized it yet but they lost me as a customer when they tried to sue that EBay person for selling their unwanted brand new copy of one of their games.

    They need to keep their games and never sell them.
    Whoa, are you fucking serious? I mean, I'm already on the Bethesda hater bandwagon, but that just takes the fucking cake.
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  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by endersblade View Post
    Whoa, are you fucking serious? I mean, I'm already on the Bethesda hater bandwagon, but that just takes the fucking cake.
    It's a technicality, but Bethesda went after him because he was selling it as a "new" game.

    Bethesda's comment:
    Bethesda does not and will not block the sale of pre-owned games. The issue in this case is that the seller offered a pre-owned game as “new” on the Amazon Marketplace.

    We do not allow non-authorized resellers to represent what they sell as “new” because we can’t verify that the game hasn’t been opened and repackaged. This is how we help protect buyers from fraud and ensure our customers always receive authentic new product, with all enclosed materials and warranty intact.

    In this case, if the game had been listed as “Pre-Owned,” this would not have been an issue.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post

    Then who should the people go to complain about it? The person who decided to go with micro-transactions in Youngblood isn't exactly making himself known to the public, and probably doesn't have a Twitter account. If developers involved in games remove themselves from Twitter due to the shame of putting micro-transactions in games, then I consider that a win.
    Dude no. Its not a win. Its a setback. Its an excuse to ignore reasonable complaints and rational statements by gamers. Attacks on developers only hurt the industry and future game development even further. Especially as it drives away new talent from game development.

    Developers do not have a say in this. Especially not a level designer. He designs levels for gods sake. Publishers and executives do that. Target them, not the stressed overworked developers who have had all decision making power stripped from them.

    Again its like shouting at a cashier in a grocery store about Nestle's policies over water and nursing formula substitutes.

    This is a lose lose foe everyone except the people at fault.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenjen View Post
    Again its like shouting at a cashier in a grocery store about Nestle's policies over water and nursing formula substitutes.
    You have no idea how real this speaks to me after recent events with customers I have had.

    But ya anyone bitching at Developers over this needs to fuck off, Developers have no say in the matter.
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  14. #214
    Old God Vash The Stampede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by themaster24 View Post
    I don't think many players are clamoring for more devs to make CoD/Madden-esque games, but publishers will almost always be keen on the addition of things that are making those, and other games like Fortnite, successful, both critically and financially. Some publishers are extremely heavy handed, some are hands off, then you have those in the middle. It's the nature of the beast, and studios have to follow any demands that their publisher gives, generally speaking, since the publisher is paying for the game.
    Yea, I know. That's why every multi-player games is adding Battle-Royal. That's why every single player game has a multi-player feature. And why every game today has micro-transactions. Whatever it takes to satisfy the check mark ✔ for the studio.
    Destiny 2 is a prime example of this situation. Bungie, as well as many players, were ok with the original version of the Eververse store in Destiny 1. It was really small in scope and wasn't too wild. With Destiny 2, though, Activision told Bungie that they needed to put more stuff behind the store, push more sales of Silver. Bungie obliged, while at the same time slowly making the system throw more free stuff at the players as a slight act of rebellion. Eventually, Activision decided Destiny wasn't bringing them the kind of revenue they wanted and gave Bungie the option to dissolve their publishing agreement, allowing Bungie to move forward with Destiny 2 and any future games as their own publisher. If you watch Devs from Bungie speak about this, you can see their relief that they are now in charge of all those kinds of Decisions.
    Gamers were so happy with Destiny that people discovered the "loot cave" and Bungie quickly "fixed it". Players are so OK with the original, they gave it a MetaCritic user score of 5.5 out of 10.
    I never played Dead Space 3, but IIRC, it received generally good reviews, including it's coop. I'll give you, though, that just adding multiplayer or co-op doesn't suddenly make the game better. It can easily have a negative impact on any given game.
    Dead Space 3 got a user score of 6.1, while Dead Space 1 got 8.1, and Dead Space 2 got 8.6.

    What does being vitriolic to these people accomplish? They had literally nothing to do with MTX being put into the game. You would be cool if you got death threats because your place of employment made a decision you had nothing to do with? You have a right to be upset and complain, but you do not have a right to act the way people are acting right now to these people. It accomplishes nothing except further fuel the argument that gamers as a whole are violent and toxic. No ones mind will change because people spewed hatred at them like they are now. In fact, any good PR team will spin the living hell out of this and make it into positive publicity for their company. So in reality, doing this could likely have the opposite affect and cause this game to sell even more that it would have originally.
    One things for sure is that people aren't generally OK with micro-transactions in games they bought. Just look at the disaster that is World of Warcraft with Blizzard constantly releasing micro-transaction mounts in a game that people bought and pay a monthly fee for. The downvotes are going after the wrong guy because the person who uploaded the video doesn't deserve this criticism. It's very easy to distance yourself from this when you look at it as a cog in the wheel of game making, but then who do you go after for this decision? Not the level designer, because he didn't make the micro-transactions. Not the graphics designers, not the programmer, or the sound team. At this point the consumer might as well scream at a wall, but they shouldn't because the wall didn't implement the micro-transaction system.

    The blame needs to be directed to someone, and no names are being given.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    They are a minority, like it or not, and they always will be.
    Wanna do a poll to see how many people on MMO-Champion are OK with micro-transactions in the games they paid for? Because I'm sure more than 50% aren't. The vocal minority are only a minority because they're the only ones who will take time to complain about it.
    And if they want to vent, they can vent to each other. They can direct their frustration to official feedback channels rather than individual developers. They can go shout at the clouds, too.
    That will accomplish nothing. How will the gaming industry learn when they want to direct all the constructive criticism to the cloud? Lets all laugh at an industry that never learns anything tee hee hee

    "Venting" to in-the-trenches developers accomplishes nothing other than harassing someone that works to build the games we enjoy, even if this particular one isn't popular.
    That's a lie because nobody enjoyed Wolfenstein Youngblood.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenjen View Post
    Dude no. Its not a win. Its a setback. Its an excuse to ignore reasonable complaints and rational statements by gamers. Attacks on developers only hurt the industry and future game development even further. Especially as it drives away new talent from game development.
    Good, then maybe we can avoid terrible games that need to be buried underground like E.T. Better no games than shitty games.
    Developers do not have a say in this. Especially not a level designer. He designs levels for gods sake. Publishers and executives do that. Target them, not the stressed overworked developers who have had all decision making power stripped from them.
    Do you know their names and Twitter accounts?

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    Yea, I know. That's why every multi-player games is adding Battle-Royal. That's why every single player game has a multi-player feature. And why every game today has micro-transactions. Whatever it takes to satisfy the check mark ✔ for the studio.
    It just comes down to how the publisher pushes stuff, the type of game and the development studios clout. A game like CoD is going to, from here on out least, be filled to the brim with every possible Fortnite-esque MTX they can think of, including stuff that actually unlocks gameplay elements in the game (from how I understand it in the most recent CoD). Then you have other games where the MTX is infinitely less intrusive and acceptable, at least to enough of a majority that they stick around. To me it's all about how the MTX is implemented and how it can impact the game itself. While it would be cool for a WoW shop mount to be obtainable in-game, it also doesn't detract anything from the game itself.

    Gamers were so happy with Destiny that people discovered the "loot cave" and Bungie quickly "fixed it". Players are so OK with the original, they gave it a MetaCritic user score of 5.5 out of 10.
    Something like the loot cave cannot exist in a game with a competitive scene. Destiny had a similar problem that Anthem currently has, Bungie just fixed it in a much better way. Metacritic for user scores is a terrible metric. Any person can go on there and be petty for the sake of being petty. People gave Mass Effect 3 a 0 or 1 rating only because they didn't like the ending, while even saying the considered the rest of the game to be the best the Mass Effect series had offered thus far. Clearly that's not 0 or 1 worthy, but that person was so upset by the original ending (which was later updated), that they wanted to dumpster it. These players don't care about critical reasoning for their score, which is what, generally speaking, critics do. As we see with this incident, Youngblood could have been a fantastic game, but there would still be people calling it the scum of the earth because it does this "SJW" thing, or it added the gold bars.

    I was referring to critical reception, which it did receive generally favorable reviews. I've already talked about how user scores can be incredibly skewed. Even a game with a highly positive score can be skewed to the positive. While critic scores aren't everything, neither are user scores. Honestly, one of the most reliable systems I've seen in recent times (generally speaking), is Steam's recent/overall user rating. It gives a pretty good metric of the trajectory of a given game over time, it evens out "review bomb" type people, as well as fan/hype boys.

    One things for sure is that people aren't generally OK with micro-transactions in games they bought. Just look at the disaster that is World of Warcraft with Blizzard constantly releasing micro-transaction mounts in a game that people bought and pay a monthly fee for. The downvotes are going after the wrong guy because the person who uploaded the video doesn't deserve this criticism. It's very easy to distance yourself from this when you look at it as a cog in the wheel of game making, but then who do you go after for this decision? Not the level designer, because he didn't make the micro-transactions. Not the graphics designers, not the programmer, or the sound team. At this point the consumer might as well scream at a wall, but they shouldn't because the wall didn't implement the micro-transaction system.
    For the sake of being pedantic, those specific mounts are collectors mounts, also included in the physical 15th Anniversary collectors edition. Them including them here is actually a change of course for those kinds of mounts.

    Back to the point at hand, though. Yes, there are a lot of people that do not like the in-game shop for mounts. We hear about it every single time another mount comes out. People also ignore the fact that Blizzard only averages 1.7 mounts a year. When Blizz first started all this in 2010, there were a lot of people exclaiming how Blizz was going to start selling gear, reputation, as well as all other sorts of things. Blizz has rarely stepped away from their pets and mounts in the 9 years the store has been around. 2 of the 3 times they did, it was for services people had been asking for, Level boost and the ability to safely buy gold (since it was clear gold farmers would never cease to exist).

    The blame needs to be directed to someone, and no names are being given.
    The blame doesn't need to be directed at anyone, that's a fallacy. The truth is, people WANT someone to yell at. It's not out of desire to be constructive either, it's out of a desire act out aggression that they otherwise could not. It's why this has become so prevalent as the internet grows. Nothing beneficial ever comes from this kind of action.

    That will accomplish nothing. How will the gaming industry learn when they want to direct all the constructive criticism to the cloud? Lets all laugh at an industry that never learns anything tee hee hee
    How is it that you believe that attacking any individual will accomplish positive change? Making someone leave twitter does nothing but embolden their own community. Makies them rally against the people undertaking the vitriolic attacks. Just because you don't like something doesn't entitle you to act in the manner people have been. You have every right to voice your displeasure of a game, but that doesn't mean you somehow have carte blanche to act as if they murdered a child or committed genocide.

    Once again, the user score is a horrible metric here. A lot of people giving the game a 0 because they don't like that the game is "Woke" or that the game has "MTX" They aren't critically reviewing the game, they are bombing it. The internet public loves to bandwagon and pitchfork, overdoing a lot of stuff. Kind of like when they tracked down someone with the same name as, IIRC, the Boston Marathon Bomber, causing people to send that person death threats. In reality, most of these reviews should be at worst 4-5, not 0. I absolutely hate Fortnite, down to my core, but I would never rate it 0, as that would be an egregious lie.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Myobi View Post
    The MMO-Champion community itself is a minority, most people who play video games are not like you or me, who actually waste time in places like this having this sort of discussion, most people just want to play their games, they don't give a flying fuck about micro-transactions, platform wars, nor about the dumb shit CEO's & Developers spew, and even a lot of the people going around making a fuzz over that sort of shit, ends up by still supporting those companies later down the road.

    A poll would provide you nothing worthwhile, but why don't you try checking sales reports of every games people make a fuzz about, every game that they are going to boycott, go look at EA and for how many years people have been talking shit about it, yet their games keep selling regardless... because most people who play video games, just don't give a damn.
    Like I've been saying. You don't often hear the people who are happy with a product, because they don't typically have anything to say. You will always hear, however, those that are angry. Sometimes that can make it feel like that is the majority, since it's all you hear. Ultimately, numbers speak for yourself. EA will stop pushing FIFA FUT like they do when the sales dry up. As much as anyone might dislike FUT or think it's a bane on gaming, it is still clearly insanely lucrative for EA, which means there are more than enough people enjoying it for them to keep doing it. Some of those things might feel sucky to us, but it's how it works.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Myobi View Post
    A poll would provide you nothing worthwhile, but why don't you try checking sales reports of every games people make a fuzz about, every game that they are going to boycott, go look at EA and for how many years people have been talking shit about it, yet their games keep selling regardless... because most people who play video games, just don't give a damn.
    A poll might provide a glimpse into other peoples minds. Just sayin'.

    About the rest, I'd argue that EA's stock downturn of 25% was directly due to people chattering on the internet.

    It is true, that the vast majority don't like internet chats, or don't care about much dealing with said medium.

    It's the ones that do who matter, though. The 25% drop is huge. It doesn't sound like much to just a casual forum browsing gamer, but it was enough for EA to get on the wire and "denounce" microtransactions in "some" of their games. OR re-brand them. It's a concern to them.

    A title they aren't worried about: Probably FIFA. However .. Eventually downward fresh-water cleans even the dirtiest of pools. It's only a matter of time, and bad EA vibes are spreading like wildfire.

    PS / TLDR
    - sure, argue the 25% stock drop was attributed to lackluster games and poor performance ... but I'd argue that it's the people who chatter that gave those lackluster gamers a very delicious bad social revue, cutting their bottom line, enough for EA to suddenly want to make "changes".

    Posters note: While someone brought up EA, the original topic is Bethesda. The two seem to be merging however, imo.
    Last edited by Vineri; 2019-08-08 at 10:43 PM.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post

    Good, then maybe we can avoid terrible games that need to be buried underground like E.T. Better no games than shitty games.

    Do you know their names and Twitter accounts?
    Doenst work that way. The industry itself suffers, good games get thrown aside in such a climate. Companies are even MORE unwilling to invest in anything new except commercialized cash cow mass appeal games. Nothing stops the shitty bland games because shit rolls down hill. Good games take effort, know how and talent but that doenst happen in a toxic environment.

    Targeting people who have nothing to do with the MT's is scummy and cannot be justified. Full stop. It does not accomplish anything, makes everything worse and infact HELPS the agenda of the system actually causing the issue. You have offered zero justification or base reasoning other than "lol no, this" or just repeating the same statement no matter what. Immature vindictiveness and big talk holds zero water.

    Call out the publisher itself. There is no one "person" or twitter account. It is the corperate system of the publisher itself.
    Last edited by Tenjen; 2019-08-08 at 10:52 PM.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Krastyn View Post
    It's a technicality, but Bethesda went after him because he was selling it as a "new" game.

    Bethesda's comment:
    Bethesda does not and will not block the sale of pre-owned games. The issue in this case is that the seller offered a pre-owned game as “new” on the Amazon Marketplace.

    We do not allow non-authorized resellers to represent what they sell as “new” because we can’t verify that the game hasn’t been opened and repackaged. This is how we help protect buyers from fraud and ensure our customers always receive authentic new product, with all enclosed materials and warranty intact.

    In this case, if the game had been listed as “Pre-Owned,” this would not have been an issue.
    I think they need to make retailers eat the loss, every time a customer returns a brand-new, unopened game. Because Bethesda can't guarantee it's authenticity any longer. Bethesda must force the retailer to now sell as "USED" + eat the loss. [as they do with their end-user customers.]

    I don't see them doing this. Their argument is asinine and petty.

    --
    The seller needed to resort to selling as "used", because Bethesda blocks the sale of new games, in order to price fix via online markets.

    Greedy company. The kid gave Bethesda money for a duplicate copy initially .. he/she just wanted to re-coop the loss. Bethesda threatens to sue. Piece of shit company, IM(humble)O.
    Last edited by Vineri; 2019-08-09 at 12:43 AM. Reason: typos, grammar

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myobi View Post
    A poll would provide you nothing worthwhile, but why don't you try checking sales reports of every games people make a fuzz about, every game that they are going to boycott, go look at EA and for how many years people have been talking shit about it, yet their games keep selling regardless... because most people who play video games, just don't give a damn.
    I think most of that has to do with how these franchises didn't originally have micro-transactions and gamers are such huge fans that they will forgive it. New IP's like Anthem, not so much. Wolfenstein gamers aren't alone in their frustration with micro-transactions as nearly every single player game sold with them hasn't sold particularly well. A good deal of them have even removed them like Shadow of War. Even NBA 2k18 shit the bed with micro-transactions and got a user score of only 1.6 on Metacritic. It sold like gangbusters not because the game was good and people accepted the micro-transactions but because those people were huge fans of the previous installments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenjen View Post
    Doenst work that way. The industry itself suffers, good games get thrown aside in such a climate. Companies are even MORE unwilling to invest in anything new except commercialized cash cow mass appeal games. Nothing stops the shitty bland games because shit rolls down hill. Good games take effort, know how and talent but that doenst happen in a toxic environment.
    Just sounds like you're advocating for shitty games.
    Targeting people who have nothing to do with the MT's is scummy and cannot be justified. Full stop. It does not accomplish anything, makes everything worse and infact HELPS the agenda of the system actually causing the issue. You have offered zero justification or base reasoning other than "lol no, this" or just repeating the same statement no matter what. Immature vindictiveness and big talk holds zero water.
    If developers are pulling from Twitter in fear of backlash from games they helped make with micro-transactions then I'd believe that sends a much louder message to developers and studios who choose to partake in making a game with micro-transactions. Talk to your boss or don't get involved in developing games with micro-transactions. You can in fact be like CD Project Red, and not EA.

    Quote Originally Posted by themaster24 View Post
    While it would be cool for a WoW shop mount to be obtainable in-game, it also doesn't detract anything from the game itself.
    That's a common misconception. Firstly because WoW is a game where your effort is rewarded with cool loot. You do cool stuff, you get cool stuff. That is the basis of every MMO-RPG in existence. But when you start charging a fee for a unique item then you completely broke the system. Doing cool things doesn't necessarily mean you get cool rewards. Instead of killing a hard boss with 39 other friends, you pulled out your credit card. You cheapened the experience for everyone else playing the game. This is less of a problem for a single player game like Wolfenstein because... you're the only person who's ever going to see the cosmetic, but a massive problem for online games.

    Metacritic for user scores is a terrible metric.
    Terrible metric for the studio, but also a more accurate one. There's a reason why Destiny 2 isn't meeting expectations, because Destiny 1 also sucked. A lot of the complaints for Destiny 2 was the same for Destiny 1. Someone at Bungie must have been listening to the clouds for constructive criticism because they certainly didn't listen to gamers complaints from Destiny 1 and made the same mistakes for Destiny 2.
    People gave Mass Effect 3 a 0 or 1 rating only because they didn't like the ending, while even saying the considered the rest of the game to be the best the Mass Effect series had offered thus far. Clearly that's not 0 or 1 worthy, but that person was so upset by the original ending (which was later updated), that they wanted to dumpster it.
    I consider it justified personally. The game was either released unfinished or done in a hurry. Take the time to make a proper ending instead of releasing the game early for sales reasons. Fallout 4 can be included in that as well.
    These players don't care about critical reasoning for their score, which is what, generally speaking, critics do. As we see with this incident, Youngblood could have been a fantastic game, but there would still be people calling it the scum of the earth because it does this "SJW" thing, or it added the gold bars.
    You do know that those professional critics never go bellow a 7 on average? What's the point of numbers 1-6? Also, to say that Youngbloood could have been good "IF" you ignore SJW and "IF" you ignore gold bars, is polishing a turd. Those weren't the only things wrong with the game, as the co-op crap ruined the single player experience and you revisited certain areas of the game often. Also enemies are basically bullet sponges. No amount of turd polishing is going to fix that.

    I was referring to critical reception
    You should never, ever, go by professional reviewers. It's just a shit show honestly.

    This game makes you feel like a game journalist.
    9/10 It has a little something for everyone.

    For the sake of being pedantic, those specific mounts are collectors mounts, also included in the physical 15th Anniversary collectors edition. Them including them here is actually a change of course for those kinds of mounts.
    Which I heard you can't get right now if you bought the collectors edition, which is around the 8th of October. Which if you want your crack pipe mount, you'll have to buy the mount again because game companies love it when you double dip.

    You have every right to voice your displeasure of a game, but that doesn't mean you somehow have carte blanche to act as if they murdered a child or committed genocide.
    Make stupid games, you get stupid rewards. Would be nice if people weren't using death threats but that's part of being on the internet.

    In reality, most of these reviews should be at worst 4-5, not 0
    From what I've heard about Youngblood I'd give it a 0. I have no patience for a bad game. Even though Youngblood is a relatively quick game to finish, I still hate the idea of wasting hours of my time to get no enjoyment. Which BTW, is how I felt about the New Colossus, because I have high standards. If you're making a game for a paycheck then please stop. Go work at Walmart or something. A Wolfenstein game is hard to fuck up, on top of it. It's literally the game that invented Run and Gun Shooters. This game has bullet spongy AI that can just sit there and take hundreds of bullets and do nothing. On top of that if you play single player the other sister AI will hold you back because of course the AI is terrible, because every game that has done this has terrible AI.

    Nothing's fun, the game has like 5 maps you constantly revisit, micro-transactions, bullet sponge enemies, bad AI, and cringe bro sisters. And you seriously think this game deserves a 4-5? This game is the modern day Daikatana.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Myobi View Post
    because the majority doesn’t give a shit, and still buy them regardless.
    You really have no idea how true this is. (not to sound insulting).

    Perfect example is the Madden 20 release that just happen, My store almost sold out of it on PS4 in the first 24hrs. I had 5 copies left on PS4 and I think about the same on Xbox.

    I see the average gamer daily and they give ZERO fuck's about any of the details. They just buy a game, Play it and that's it.

    Honestly I'm a bit jealous of that, I wish I could be that ignorant of the gaming industry.
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