Trying Outlaw, looking for non stealth Rogue gameplay

[ymirsson]

We're done here. You've been proven wrong, no one needs to see any further shitposting. Ignored.

Your ignore list must be almost as big as your ego by now.

[Kaver]

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=51690/killing-spree

Here's a video of some guy demonstrating single target Outlaw burst https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huoZQmverRk

Like, just stop posting.

First of all, he is starting his burst with the Crit buff and 3 stacks of Alacrity. You need to start from scratch to show burst.

Secondly, this video is a year old. He even call dancing steel for trash xD. Nobody is using Killing Spree anymore.

Are you really still playing the game? Be honest

- - - Updated - - -

For the record, Outlaw is only marginally better at AoE than Assassination until you're talking 6-7+ targets

As baseline, Outlaw is much better. Assassination does not have good AOE if you don't have any azerite traits.

[shoegazing]

I main a Fury Warrior, and my other 2 characters I play most are Ret Paladin, and Havoc DH.

This is who we are attracting now. #ClassFantasy

Thanks Blizzard. Thank you so much for taking a big giant dump on our class. /s

[Zorachus]

So I did my first m+ an outlaw spec last night. Mythic 0. and it actually felt pretty good very smooth rotation always had enough energy mostly. I asked the other players and the random group and they said I held my own did pretty good.

this morning I went back to assassin just doing some world quests around Naz and I'm killing singles easily but the mobs I still kind of that close to being killed I have to be very careful.

Let me try a Mythic 0 tonight in Assassin spec

[therealstegblob]

First of all, he is starting his burst with the Crit buff and 3 stacks of Alacrity. You need to start from scratch to show burst.

Lolwhat.

Secondly, this video is a year old. He even call dancing steel for trash xD. Nobody is using Killing Spree anymore.

And this changes that Killing Spree is burst... how, exactly?

Are you really still playing the game? Be honest

If by "playing the game" you mean "talking to a troll", then yes I guess I've been dumb enough to keep feeding you.

As baseline, Outlaw is much better. Assassination does not have good AOE if you don't have any azerite traits.

Subterfuge wants a word with you.

[Kaver]

Lolwhat.



And this changes that Killing Spree is burst... how, exactly?



If by "playing the game" you mean "talking to a troll", then yes I guess I've been dumb enough to keep feeding you.



Subterfuge wants a word with you.

You can't start with the crit buff and 3 stacks of Alacrity in a raid fight for example. You need to measure burst as you would in an actually encounter. You can't start with 5 combo points neither for example.

Killing spree doesn't do very much damage currently. It might have done in the past, but not now. You would know that if you still played the game.

Subterfuge doesn't do very much AOE damage compared unless you have the SS trait. Outlaw is currently has much better baseline AOE. You would know that if you still played the game.

- - - Updated - - -

So let me get this straight: Killing Spree does not do burst damage because... facts?

Currently, on my 440 ilvl Rogue, Killing Spree does 49 k damage which is very little damage for a long CD with channeling time.

[therealstegblob]

You would know that if you still played the game..

Apparently I'm not standing in Eternal Palace right now. My computer and raid group will be shocked to hear that.

Subterfuge doesn't do very much AOE damage compared unless you have the SS trait.

Lol okay.

Currently, on my 440 ilvl Rogue, Killing Spree does 49 k damage

50k for a single CD sounds pretty bursty to me.

[Biomega]

So I did my first m+ an outlaw spec last night. Mythic 0. and it actually felt pretty good very smooth rotation always had enough energy mostly. I asked the other players and the random group and they said I held my own did pretty good.

this morning I went back to assassin just doing some world quests around Naz and I'm killing singles easily but the mobs I still kind of that close to being killed I have to be very careful.

Let me try a Mythic 0 tonight in Assassin spec

Just be aware that due to things like Azerite traits, it's harder than it has ever been to maintain two specs at equal level. Azerite gear is hard enough to get as it is, getting two sets with the right traits is a challenge and a half to put it mildly. And since reforge costs double each time you reforge even a single piece, it's not a feasible solution for everyday switching either. This is exacerbated in the Outlaw + Assassination case by the need to have extra weapons - off-hands are fine to share (Outlaw doesn't care if it's a dagger in the OH) but main hands you will need the right one for your spec.

You'll be fine at the start where neither spec is optimized anyway, but there will come a point soon where you will need to make a decision about which spec to focus on.

[Kaver]

50k for a single CD sounds pretty bursty to me.

It's is not. It takes 2 seconds to cast which gives you 25k dps which is very little currently even for sustained damage.

[therealstegblob]

It's is not. It takes 2 seconds to cast which gives you 25k dps which is very little currently even for sustained damage.

Funny because just to test this, I swapped to Combat and, at 436 ilvl in complete assassination gear including azerite traits and stats, my Killing Spree just hit for 62k damage and my tooltip reports 55k damage.

Maybe you're just bad at Rogue?

[Kaver]

my Killing Spree just hit for 62k damage and my tooltip reports 55k damage.

62k is still not very much damage for a long CD that takes 2 seconds to cast. It's not good burst.

An Assassination Rogue can for example hit 80-100 k burst dps and an Outlaw Rogue can't hit nowhere close to that.

[therealstegblob]

62k is still not very much damage for a long CD that takes 2 seconds to cast. It's not good burst.

An Assassination Rogue can for example hit 80-100 k burst dps and an Outlaw Rogue can't hit nowhere close to that.

Lol, I'm sure Killing Spree can hit for at least 80k~ if I had a lot more Crit and Vers (the specc's best stats that I'm lower on, I need more Crit for Assassination too). 62k is how much I did not at all specced right, and for a 2 second ability I'd call that pretty decent burst.

We're done here, and this thread has been derailed with your nonsense for more than long enough. I am blocking you. I hope you get better at Rogue some day.

[Kaver]

Lol, I'm sure Killing Spree can hit for at least 80k~ if I had a lot more Crit and Vers (the specc's best stats that I'm lower on, I need more Crit for Assassination too). 62k is how much I did not at all specced right, and for a 2 second ability I'd call that pretty decent burst.

We're done here, and this thread has been derailed with your nonsense for more than long enough. I am blocking you. I hope you get better at Rogue some day.

Burst should also be measure over a period of at least 30 seconds. One ability that does 62k damage cannot be defined as burst if the overall dps only is around 30-40 k dps.

[Zorachus]

Hey guys, this is my thread, lets all keep cool please. Enough with the he says, she said about the specs abilities

[Critical92]

80k burst on a 2 min cd spell when players go well over 300k hp is laughable.
If you ever take KS for ST burst you should quit being a rogue. Using it for burst aoe with bladeflurry is understandable if we had frequent burst aoe needed fights at all, but they are rare. The closest was Opulence add spawn.
One crit envenom hits for well over 100k in assa opener.

And don't forget 3nv buffed eviscerates from sub.

[Zorachus]

Playing both specs last few days, I do like the feel and smooth rotation of Outlaw. It's much better in M+, just feels good.

I like the idea behind Assassin better, and would be my preferred spec, but my biggest beef is energy regen, seems spells use up too much energy, and I'm always trying to rebuild up back to 5 red blips to use a finisher spell. A easy fix would be to have Fan of knives costs less than 35, should be like 25. And M costing 50 energy is way too much, yeah it gives me 2 red blips but drsins a lot of energy.

Outlaw doesn't have this issue nearly as much, seems energy is easy to build up quickly, and once you cast a finisher with all 5 red blips, easy to regain energy again.

[Eazy]

Playing both specs last few days, I do like the feel and smooth rotation of Outlaw. It's much better in M+, just feels good.

I like the idea behind Assassin better, and would be my preferred spec, but my biggest beef is energy regen, seems spells use up too much energy, and I'm always trying to rebuild up back to 5 red blips to use a finisher spell. A easy fix would be to have Fan of knives costs less than 35, should be like 25. And M costing 50 energy is way too much, yeah it gives me 2 red blips but drsins a lot of energy.

Assa isn't actually having any energy starving problem with Subterfuge and Vigor in M+. You can put up Garrotes, up to 4 on the mobs and then FoK+Rupture them. There is point where you gain more energy than you can spend.

[crakerjack]

If all you're doing is PvE, then where does the stealth come into play? I mean I know vanish is part of the rotation for sub/Ass, but you're never really stealthed during a boss fight. Regardless of whatever spec you play as a rogue, when it comes to PvE, you're probably in stealth for less than 1% of the fight. What it really comes down to is what type of playstyle you want. If you like the button mashing of fury, then you'll probably prefer outlaw even though it's getting a significant nerf to blade flurry. Otherwise you could go ass/sub which are more about setup rather than just button mashing. If your CD's are about to be up, you'll have to make sure you've pooled some energy and are ready to dump it during your burst window.

So if stealth is a hindering factor when playing a class, especially if all you plan on doing is low keystones and LFR, just play w/e you feel is most fun. Like as an example for ass, you'd open out of stealth with a garrote or 4-5 combo rupture or 5 point eviscerate. Outside of that and using vanish for 5 point ruptures, you don't use stealth again.

[Garymorilix]

Burst should also be measure over a period of at least 30 seconds. One ability that does 62k damage cannot be defined as burst if the overall dps only is around 30-40 k dps.

Guy is pretty fckin clueless.

And I seriously doubt he did 80k Killing Spree just by swapping from Assa to OUTLAW (not Combat). He's banned, but I don't think he'd provide any evidence either.

I would really wanna see his 'raid group' to check why he is the best burster there with outlaw rogue lol. If an outlaw is the best burst in your raid, your raid fckin sucks donkey dick.

But I guess he'll live out his delusions while he's banned for the next 3 days or so.

Infracted.

[Zorachus]

So I just read that Blizzard nerfed Outlaw big-time, changing Blade Fury spell?

Crap.

I was just getting into my Rogue and getting comfortable with Outlaw. Now everyone saying due to the nerf this week, the spec blows now. Is that true?

Or do I just go Assassin?