Are the Val'kyrs and Varlarjars of the Hall of Valor are lightforged are theyundead?

[Jekyll]

Are they the same as Calia?

[Schattenlied]

No. Odyn's valkyr are not undead, they never died, they are simply magically enhanced Vrykul women... They aren't "lightforged" either, lightforging is a thing specifically Naaru do.

The Valajar are kinda undead, I guess... They are spirits of those who die in combat that have been transplanted into new titan construct-like bodies made of metal called "Stormforged".

[Shelly]

No.

The Valarjar are thunderforged vrykul, the curse of flesh removed from them and their bodies returned to metal.

The Val'kyr are a bit weirder, I'm not sure if it ever really gets into it but they are created Odyn to move between the shadowlands and the regular world of Azeroth. It's sort of told in the Helya story in Storm Peaks.

No lightforging was involved.

[Aucald]

The Valarjar are essentially Light-based constructs inhabited by the souls of former Vrykul who Odyn deemed worthy. The Val'kyr are undead, though; as a requirement of their jobs as psychopomps is being able to access the Shadowlands to be able to transit the dead to Odyn's Halls of Valor. I don't know if Odyn's Val'kyr are Lightforged, so to speak, but they do seem to have been infused with or otherwise created by Light energies in some fashion - as opposed to Scourge Val'kyr who incarnate Shadow energy like you'd expect of spectral undead. They're not the same as Calia, though; you might call them "cousins" in a sense that the Light was involved in their creation or basic substance - but either way Calia is an physical undead being whereas the Val'kyr are undead spirit-beings with the ability to manifest physically to a degree.

[Jekyll]

The Valarjar are essentially Light-based constructs inhabited by the souls of former Vrykul who Odyn deemed worthy. The Val'kyr are undead, though; as a requirement of their jobs as psychopomps is being able to access the Shadowlands to be able to transit the dead to Odyn's Halls of Valor. I don't know if Odyn's Val'kyr are Lightforged, so to speak, but they do seem to have been infused with or otherwise created by Light energies in some fashion - as opposed to Scourge Val'kyr who incarnate Shadow energy like you'd expect of spectral undead. They're not the same as Calia, though; you might call them "cousins" in a sense that the Light was involved in their creation or basic substance - but either way Calia is an physical undead being whereas the Val'kyr are undead spirit-beings with the ability to manifest physically to a degree.

So, Light based undead isn't something new introduced in BTS then and isn't really an asspull lore that people keep raging on about, right?

[Aucald]

So, Light based undead isn't something new introduced in BTS then and isn't really an asspull lore that people keep raging on about, right?

Depends on how you want to approach the Val'kyr of Valarjar, really. We don't know a lot about how they're made - and if they're undead beings infused with the Light after they've been created, then they don't share much in common with Calia Menethil in BTS. But if the Light is an intrinsic part of their creation, then they would.

[mickybrighteyes]

So, Light based undead isn't something new introduced in BTS then and isn't really an asspull lore that people keep raging on about, right?

It's an area of lore that isn't explored...

out right resurrection of a character after their explicit death as a canon act perpetrated by known characters who are not god/demigod level existences is still a bit of an asspull.

[Felrane]

Mueh'zala Loa of Death or some God of Death who rules over the shadowlands made a deal to give Odyn access to Azeroths shadowrealm. We dont know what he promised but he traded one of his eyes. He then forcefully changed Heyla into the first Val'kyr. His Death magic does seem more light based but it could be just aspected to his Fire and Lightning titan construct nature.

Almost every school of magic can create undead in some way. The first necromancers were using fel based magics but its far to destructive. The Nathrazim worked their way into death magics later laying the foundation of the scourge 10,000 years before the Lich King was created. Warlocks could also transplant souls into corpes. The first Azeroth necromancer Kel'thuzad started with Arcane magics that had limited success till he made contact with the Lich King who was forged with pure Death magics by Kil'J. We have also seen Void undead in WoD(shadowmoon clan) and BFA(void elves). Life based undead which was more like infestation in WoD(genesaur). The only Undead we haven't seen are Light based UN-natural undead till Calia.

Val'kyr kind of remind me of Naruu in a way. Perhaps they are releated while Naruu were created by Elune(God of Life?). The spirit healers/val'kyrs were created by some other God(of Death?). They can use both Light/shadow depending on who they are aspected toward.

Overall Blizzard hasn't really expanded on the Life/Death lore all that much. We know that there are only a handful of actual resurrections. Anduin saving Varian and the Thunderking, Thalipedes in blasted lands(blood magic). Guess Whitemane are the only ones I can even think of. Zul tried on Dazar but it didn't seem to work correctly he was more like a Deathknight. Hopefully blizzard will keep expanding the Lore. I would like to see more god like entities in every school of magic start to play their cards now that the overwhelming Legion is out of the picture for awhile.

[chrisisvacant]

Mueh'zala Loa of Death or some God of Death who rules over the shadowlands made a deal to give Odyn access to Azeroths shadowrealm. We dont know what he promised but he traded one of his eyes. He then forcefully changed Heyla into the first Val'kyr. His Death magic does seem more light based but it could be just aspected to his Fire and Lightning titan construct nature.

Almost every school of magic can create undead in some way. The first necromancers were using fel based magics but its far to destructive. The Nathrazim worked their way into death magics later laying the foundation of the scourge 10,000 years before the Lich King was created. Warlocks could also transplant souls into corpes. The first Azeroth necromancer Kel'thuzad started with Arcane magics that had limited success till he made contact with the Lich King who was forged with pure Death magics by Kil'J. We have also seen Void undead in WoD(shadowmoon clan) and BFA(void elves). Life based undead which was more like infestation in WoD(genesaur). The only Undead we haven't seen are Light based UN-natural undead till Calia.

Val'kyr kind of remind me of Naruu in a way. Perhaps they are releated while Naruu were created by Elune(God of Life?). The spirit healers/val'kyrs were created by some other God(of Death?). They can use both Light/shadow depending on who they are aspected toward.

Overall Blizzard hasn't really expanded on the Life/Death lore all that much. We know that there are only a handful of actual resurrections. Anduin saving Varian and the Thunderking, Thalipedes in blasted lands(blood magic). Guess Whitemane are the only ones I can even think of. Zul tried on Dazar but it didn't seem to work correctly he was more like a Deathknight. Hopefully blizzard will keep expanding the Lore. I would like to see more god like entities in every school of magic start to play their cards now that the overwhelming Legion is out of the picture for awhile.

Genesaur are not undead. Void elves are not undead.

Eredar warlocks and Nathrezim were studying this art long before (over 10,000 years) Kel'thuzad was even born and, on Azeroth, necromancy was a common practice among the various troll tribes (taught to them by Hakkar).

[mickybrighteyes]

Void elves are not undead.

I think that poster was referring to the voidcrafted dinosaurs we see the void elves producing using freshly killed ravasaur.

[chrisisvacant]

I think that poster was referring to the voidcrafted dinosaurs we see the void elves producing using freshly killed ravasaur.

Ah, gotcha. That makes sense.

[Rozz]

Essentially yes, they are undead by the nature of having to ascend to their position through death. But until we know for certain how the process is done, we can't be sure what they're made of.

[Piamonte]

Mueh'zala Loa of Death or some God of Death who rules over the shadowlands made a deal to give Odyn access to Azeroths shadowrealm. We dont know what he promised but he traded one of his eyes. He then forcefully changed Heyla into the first Val'kyr. His Death magic does seem more light based but it could be just aspected to his Fire and Lightning titan construct nature.

Almost every school of magic can create undead in some way. The first necromancers were using fel based magics but its far to destructive. The Nathrazim worked their way into death magics later laying the foundation of the scourge 10,000 years before the Lich King was created. Warlocks could also transplant souls into corpes. The first Azeroth necromancer Kel'thuzad started with Arcane magics that had limited success till he made contact with the Lich King who was forged with pure Death magics by Kil'J. We have also seen Void undead in WoD(shadowmoon clan) and BFA(void elves). Life based undead which was more like infestation in WoD(genesaur). The only Undead we haven't seen are Light based UN-natural undead till Calia.

Val'kyr kind of remind me of Naruu in a way. Perhaps they are releated while Naruu were created by Elune(God of Life?). The spirit healers/val'kyrs were created by some other God(of Death?). They can use both Light/shadow depending on who they are aspected toward.

Overall Blizzard hasn't really expanded on the Life/Death lore all that much. We know that there are only a handful of actual resurrections. Anduin saving Varian and the Thunderking, Thalipedes in blasted lands(blood magic). Guess Whitemane are the only ones I can even think of. Zul tried on Dazar but it didn't seem to work correctly he was more like a Deathknight. Hopefully blizzard will keep expanding the Lore. I would like to see more god like entities in every school of magic start to play their cards now that the overwhelming Legion is out of the picture for awhile.

thats outdated lore from when arcane, death and fel magic were one and the same. By today´s lore kelthuzad never used arcane magic to resurrect th dead, he did it by using necromantic magic from the start.

As for Odyn´s valkyr, we dont really know how they are made.

[shuubu]

Do you guys know where Odyn keeps all his valor?

In his Valorjar.

[cparle87]

It's an area of lore that isn't explored...

out right resurrection of a character after their explicit death as a canon act perpetrated by known characters who are not god/demigod level existences is still a bit of an asspull.

You don't consider powerful naaru to be demi-god level? And Aegwynn was definitely not at the time she resurrected Medivh, but it might have been him being remarkable that made it possible, not her spell.

[mickybrighteyes]

You don't consider powerful naaru to be demi-god level? And Aegwynn was definitely not at the time she resurrected Medivh, but it might have been him being remarkable that made it possible, not her spell.

Saa'ra isn't credited with raising Calia. The conclave is.


Naa'ru haven't exactly been credited with such feats as raising people.... I mean Birdenbrad is an example of defying death by direct Naa'ru intervention, but that was still death.

Also had to look into Medivh cause I wasn't aware Medivh was raised by another character and not simply continuing to exist somehow as an echo/shadow of himself (it wasn't exactly a point of interest in wc3)

[cparle87]

Saa'ra isn't credited with raising Calia. The conclave is.


Naa'ru haven't exactly been credited with such feats as raising people.... I mean Birdenbrad is an example of defying death by direct Naa'ru intervention, but that was still death.

Also had to look into Medivh cause I wasn't aware Medivh was raised by another character and not simply continuing to exist somehow as an echo/shadow of himself (it wasn't exactly a point of interest in wc3)

It was added later. Aegwynn pooled her remaining power for years, even draining her immortality spell, to fully and truly resurrect Medivh from the dead.

[Syegfryed]

the horse the paladins have from their class hall isn't basically an undead of light?

And im pretty sure odin valkyr are also dead

[mickybrighteyes]

It was added later. Aegwynn pooled her remaining power for years, even draining her immortality spell, to fully and truly resurrect Medivh from the dead.

Yes, cited from Cycle of Hatred. Though I don't recall his presence in the book. I guess it was a foot note on Aegwynn discussing past events?

[Aucald]

the horse the paladins have from their class hall isn't basically an undead of light?

And im pretty sure odin valkyr are also dead

The Highlord's Charger mount seems to be something altogether different - as it appears to be a resurrected skeletal steed (that taken from the Death Knight Raemien the Soultaker) infused with Light energies. It may or may not be undead, but it is certainly reconstituted as it appears to have flesh and sinew restored to it. It is more likely fully resurrected and further empowered to serve the Highlord's mount.

Odyn's Val'kyr are indeed undead, as are all Val'kyr.