Do you want tinkers?

[zlygork]

Yep possibility always there, but lets look at DH+DK ,only Illidan in permanent demon-form, only Arthas can summon real Sindy , its hard to image raid of people and some of them in giant MECH`s it would dwarfed any tauren and obstacle vision for other players (very hard to dodge stills while MECH`s run around you even more so if you play small-body race (gnome,goblin) its already problem with big characters.

So if said Mekkatorque and Gallywix have MECH`s, its isnt translate that playable tinker must have them too (they gonna be just mortals not a mighty HEROES), but all can happen and it would bring not just one meme given time that they were fixing camera position for basic models ... so long)

Assuming for the sake of the argument that tinkers would not be a gnome and goblin only class, in which case the size wouldn't have to be a problem, I could see the mech being a CD or proc not unlike metamorphosis, while the rest of the time the tinker uses some sort of exo-suit, or the afforementioned tinker backpack. How it will differ from veng gameplay? I am sure there are a thousand different ways, but I will acknowledge the limitations of my creativity and leave it to people that are hired for their creative capacities.

[Kithelle]

But you just said everyone has and can, so nope. Glad we agree that the class is stupid as everyone can. GG.

Just because you know how to drive a car decently doesn't mean you're a expert tank driver.

[SirCowdog]

Yep possibility always there, but lets look at DH+DK ,only Illidan in permanent demon-form, only Arthas can summon real Sindy , its hard to image raid of people and some of them in giant MECH`s it would dwarfed any tauren and obstacle vision for other players (very hard to dodge stills while MECH`s run around you even more so if you play small-body race (gnome,goblin) its already problem with big characters.

So if said Mekkatorque and Gallywix have MECH`s, its isnt translate that playable tinker must have them too (they gonna be just mortals not a mighty HEROES), but all can happen and it would bring not just one meme given time that they were fixing camera position for basic models ... so long)

I think you might be trying to hard to associate different things.


Demon Hunters are their own thing. Just because metamorphosis is a cooldown for them doesn't mean another class can't have a completely different ability permanently on.

Should bear form be a temporary cooldown for druids just because meta is for DH?

And who says the mech has to be giant? A goblin/gnome in a shredder is only about the same size as a worgen or tauren. It wouldn't really be that out of place.

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Just because you know how to drive a car decently doesn't mean you're a expert tank driver.

Hell...some people can barely manage an automatic economy car, much less a manual transmission SUV or truck.

[Ielenia]

He is a unit in WC3 and as such is a part of the WC3 universe, which extends to WoW itself. Just like, you know, Illidan.

You mean Illidan, the character that appeared in many of the Night Elf campaign missions, and starred in quite a lot? The same campaigns that set the lore of the Warcraft franchise?

Meanwhile the Goblin Tinker neutral hero unit never once appeared in any campaign. Don't think that just because something is "in the game" it means that it is "part of the lore." What happens and who appears in the story campaigns are part of the franchise lore. What does not... is not part of the lore.

[DotEleven]

You mean Illidan, the character that appeared in many of the Night Elf campaign missions, and starred in quite a lot? The same campaigns that set the lore of the Warcraft franchise?

Meanwhile the Goblin Tinker neutral hero unit never once appeared in any campaign. Don't think that just because something is "in the game" it means that it is "part of the lore." What happens and who appears in the story campaigns are part of the franchise lore. What does not... is not part of the lore.

If they're in the game, they're part of the lore.

Edit: BTW, if you want more proof of them being in the lore, here's the WOW TCG GOBLIN TINKER CARD

http://www.carteblanchehobbies.com/c..._tinker/108943

inb4 "Well, that's just the TCG so it doesn't count"

[Teriz]

Same boat as those who wants Necro or Dark Rangers then, you want a class that satisfy your needs...

Except the difference is that Necromancer fans have a class that does exactly what they want, just not the way they want it done. Its like wanting a Lexus but you get an Acura instead. What makes Necromancer fans request so bizarre is that the available class is actually based on the most powerful Necromancer ever.

Tinker fans have no class that does exactly we want to do. That’s the difference.

No you didn't, you are dancing around it. I sorta can take it as that you are saying yes to the second question? That you do realise people want a new class with new mechanics and new playstyles?

So why then do you always counter with "go play hunter or DK"? When you apparently are saying that you know they want something completely different to how they play? That just doesn't make sense "Go play that class that doesn't satisfy or plays the same as your fantasy to satisfy your needs".

if that's not what you are saying, give a straight answer to either of those questions.

Again DRs and Necromancers are already in the class lineup, you just don’t like how they play or how they’re presented.

[FelPlague]

If a draenei rogue is a gnome priest, then you have a lot of explaining to do. Also, these are engineers at the top of their fields. Deal.with.it. There's a reason why there's not hundreds of thousands of these mechs running around. I'm sorry your hopes and dreams are stupid in this game, find a game that you can live out your gundamn fantasy.

Also, you never answered my question.

there is hundreds of those mechs running aroudn though...
the lgihtforged warframes were ALL OVER THE PLACE in argus and the raid.
shredders have been all over in many expansions, and you pilot them for many quests
there is TONS of fel reavers, many raid bosses, dungeon bosses, world bosses, quest mobs, factories, etc.
the gmod suit while not tons of those cause its gallywixes personal one, there is MANY of the pummlers, go to motherlode, or to the many places in zandalar you see them.

[Teriz]

He's not in the lore of Warcraft 3. Gameplay is not lore. Multiplayer matches are not lore. The Goblin Tinker only exists in multiplayer maps of the game. Never in the campaigns. Never in the lore.

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I fail to see the relevance.

Oh, wait, I remember now: you have this nonsensical and completely illogical belief that lightforged draenei somehow lose the ability to pilot warframes when they arrive on Azeroth, right? I remember because I used to have this little gem in my signature:

And, since I just reminded you of that argument of yours from one year ago, there's also this, in that exact same post of yours:

Well, now we have Warframes in Tiragarde Sound, Arathi Highlands, Drustvar and Nazmir.

okay, so LF Draenei can be Tinkers too. I’m fine with that, since it can add to the theme of using advanced tech vs old gods and void lords.

However, Goblons, Gnomes, and LF Draenei certainly isn’t “everyone”.

Anyways, back to your current post:

Soooooo... according to you, a demon hunter without its most defining feature, changing into a demon, could not be implemented in WoW, according to you. But a tinker without its most defining feature, the "robotic backpack with mechanic arms that turn into a mech", that can happen? I sense a double-standard, here.

That isn't his most defining feature. The most defining feature of the Tinker was a Goblin riding a mech in a fantasy game. That's exactly what we got with Gazlowe.

But mechanical pets, missiles, turrets, fighting in a mech, and walking explosives is a tinker, is it not?

It is, and I'm not aware of any class that offers all of those things.

[Kumorii]

Again DRs and Necromancers are already in the class lineup, you just don’t like how they play or how they’re presented.

Once again my question is relevant.

Do you think people want Dark Ranger or Necro and all it does it plays like a Hunter or DK? Or do you think they want new mechanics and new gameplay accompanied with those new classes?

Other than that you are being about as honest as it's saying that monks shouldn't exist because they could play a Paladin. They have the healing tank and dps spec... Same as with druids.
My guess is that you won't say that and that you will say "they have different abilities and plays differently".

Tinkers are represented through engineering, you just don't like how it's presented to you.

[Ielenia]

If they're in the game, they're part of the lore.

No. That's not how it works. It's only part of the lore if they're shown to be part of the lore. And Goblin Tinkers were never shown to be in the lore.

Edit: BTW, if you want more proof of them being in the lore, here's the WOW TCG GOBLIN TINKER CARD

"While the artwork of some cards was overseen and sometimes edited with Blizzard's Creative Development department input,[2][3] with Chris Metzen suggesting some of the cards[4] and being particularly vigilant about the way named heroes were handled,[5] Blizzard declared that the Trading Card Game is not considered canon, and neither are its cards descriptions. Moreover, contrary to Hearthstone, "there is no tie-in story for the TCG and it is not a mini-game within World of Warcraft".[6][7][8]"

inb4 "Well, that's just the TCG so it doesn't count"

If you knew that already, why did you bother posting information you know is wrong?

[Thage]

I think people get way too invested in arguing over whether or not their hero class of choice should be implemented. Ditto races/allied races.

[DotEleven]

No. That's not how it works. It's only part of the lore if they're shown to be part of the lore. And Goblin Tinkers were never shown to be in the lore.


"While the artwork of some cards was overseen and sometimes edited with Blizzard's Creative Development department input,[2][3] with Chris Metzen suggesting some of the cards[4] and being particularly vigilant about the way named heroes were handled,[5] Blizzard declared that the Trading Card Game is not considered canon, and neither are its cards descriptions. Moreover, contrary to Hearthstone, "there is no tie-in story for the TCG and it is not a mini-game within World of Warcraft".[6][7][8]"


If you knew that already, why did you bother posting information you know is wrong?

Because you're honestly just cherry-picking. Everywhere, in everything. Tinker, Gazlowe, they all have this. There everywhere except not currently explicitly implemented in WoW itself. They're there. The unit is there. They exist in the universe. You're just mad.

And I said that because I knew that would be your argument. "Everything that's not in WoW doesn't exist. Unless I want it too and then it does."

[Paperfox]

I think people get way too invested in arguing over whether or not their hero class of choice should be implemented. Ditto races/allied races.

^ This.

I may never roll a tinker, and if someone out there enjoys playing one, then why not? Their enjoyment does not mean mine is hurt in any way. So why not have them all?

As far as lore goes, gameplay will always beat lore. IMHO we already have undead holy priests.

[Papzer]

No new classes for you, but I guess you will get another race recolor/reskin

[arkanon]

The more classes you add, the more you marginalize.

This would only be true if new classes added more players to the pool - either encouraging more players to start tanking, or, more players to suddenly start playing the game. More people starting to play the game is great, and i certainly dont feel my raid spot is threatened by some new person who just started; they dont have the gear, experience, or ability of a player who is already invested. I think make improvements and undo some of the recent changes to classes before adding more, i just dont think your argument is a good one.

[Thage]

It does hurt you if their class becomes overpowered and takes raid spots from yours. This is less of a problem for dps, but for tanks and healers it is not uncommon for boss strategies to be built around specific utility offered by one class, which then crowds out other classes. Examples: dk grip, spirit link totem, pally bubble, etc. I played a warrior tank in dragon soul and I was ignored like the plague because pally and blood dk could solo madness and ultraxion but warriors couldn’t. The more classes you add, the more you marginalize.

That's more because the designers suck at their jobs than the fault of the class itself, let's be honest here.

[Ielenia]

Because you're honestly just cherry-picking.

Cherry-picking? Where have I ever "cherry-picked"? Do you even know what that means? My arguments regarding "canonicity" of games like Warcraft 3, the TCG, Heroes of the Storm and Hearthstone have always been consistent. The TCG, Heroes of the Storm and Hearthstone are not canon to the Warcraft lore, and for Warcraft 3, only the campaigns are canon to the Warcraft lore.

And I said that because I knew that would be your argument.

Well, yeah, facts are facts. The TCG is not canon. You knowing that I would bring it up to counter your argument does not make that fact any less, well, a fact.

"Everything that's not in WoW doesn't exist. Unless I want it too and then it does."

Prove it. Put your money where your proverbial mouth is. Show me where I used a non-canon game as a lore source for Warcraft.

[arkanon]

You sound like a dps. This is a bigger problem for tanks and healers because there are limited spots. If the encounter requires two spirit links, ta da, half your healers are shammies, and the other 5 healing specs are left to fight over the other two spots - and maybe hpally is op tank healer, so now you’ve got 4 specs fighting for one spot.

Your skill and experience doesn’t help if you don’t have the one thing that trivializes the toughest mechanic in the fight. The more specs they add, the more likely yours becomes marginalized.

There’s ample evidence that this is a problem already btw - there are always specs that are completely missing from mythic (holy priest and mistweaver over the past 5 years say hi).

You sound like someone who lacks any real understanding of the situation, and as such, lashes out with baseless accusations like "you sound like a dps". I tank, not dps. I have all tank classes at max level, and have done since very early on in the expansion, every expansion. This is because for certain fights, yes, certain classes are very strong. But the reality is this only really impacts world first raiders. If you are 2/8M and are getting benched, i really hate to tell you this, but it is NOT because of your class or spec.

The REALITY is that the benefits to the game greatly outweigh your concerns. Using extremely generous math, this concern of yours impacts well less than 1% of the players of the game. The other 99% just dont care, and quite rightly. You are attempting to make a mountain out of a molehill. You also grossly exaggerate the MW and Hpriest thing - plenty of hpriests and MW have completed mythic content every tier for the last 5 years - again you confuse the world first race (something i doubt you have anything to do with) with the reality for the other 99% of mythic raiders, and the other 99% of players.

The comment about stacking class regardless of skill is just another example of you having absolutely no clue what you are talking about here, and being grossly misleading with your argument. You dont just grab some LFR hero to come and do Mythic endgame with you because they have one ability that works with one mechanic on one fight. Thats just ludicrous.

[Swnem]

It does hurt you if their class becomes overpowered and takes raid spots from yours. This is less of a problem for dps, but for tanks and healers it is not uncommon for boss strategies to be built around specific utility offered by one class, which then crowds out other classes. Examples: dk grip, spirit link totem, pally bubble, etc. I played a warrior tank in dragon soul and I was ignored like the plague because pally and blood dk could solo madness and ultraxion but warriors couldn’t. The more classes you add, the more you marginalize.

The thought that you are so self centered and think this is because of the classes rather than the raid fights blizz designs is astounding. You do know they do that on purpose? You want to be the only special kid in the block eh? Grow up. You got all the tools for every encounter. You got charges and leaps the other tanks don't and there will surely be utility from other classes that can assist you (you are not raiding alone). But, the grass is always greener in the neighbors lawn eh? If you don't like it, and i don't either, go tell the devs to stop designing such fights.

Or go play classic and don't come back. Warriors are the superstar tanks there. The rest of us want to move into the game's future though.

[arkanon]

I’m not a world first raider but it absolutely affects me because I pug. Far more people pug than raid world first and probably more pug than raid mythic, and pugging is all about finding the right classes unfortunately.

I don’t think you understood my post correctly because you seem to think I suggested bringing lfr raiders to mythic - maybe that was in someone else’s post and you got confused? But yes there have been times when one mechanic completely determines whether I get invites, and it’s entirely luck of the draw based on my class.

The balance problem affects far more than mythic raiders. As a pugger my experience in an expansion was hugely influenced by luck of the draw with my class. As I stated earlier, in dragon soul I played a prot warrior and it was impossible. In early mop I was disc and I was getting random whispers constantly with invites to raids. Legion I was lucky enough to level a resto Druid that I switched to guardian early because they were so obviously op.

But there’s clearly a problem in mythic as well. For tanking, Jains had only 80 demon hunter parses on warcraftlogs for demon hunters, 150 for Druids (king of last expansion). It’s rare to find a mythic or heroic raider who just sticks with one tank class and hopes for the best.

What absolute garbage. You are making excuses for having trouble getting invited to pugs - honestly, you are making shit up. This is NOT an issue. You are talking about low level pug content - and that content can be, and is frequently completed by players on all classes, of all specs. You are creating an issue that just doesnt exist. At no point in wows history have you applied to a pug, and been told "sorry mate, you are not a shaman, we only want shaman because of this one mechanic on this one boss" You know what they say if they do want a shammy? "LF1M Shammy" if you are a priest and you are stupid enough to apply for a group that is looking for a different class, thats 100% on you.

The LFR comment was a direct response to you suggesting that skill and experience are suddenly off the table when you are selecting players, and that the spec is ALL that matters - yet another use of hyperbole and exaggeration on your part. Honestly, take a step back and consider that maybe, just maybe, its YOU that is the issue, not the class / spec.

As someone who runs 2 x pug heroics per week, i have never once, NOT ONCE looked at someones class / spec and said "no, you cant come". I am somewhat conscious of trying to ensure i cover all the buffs, but its only heroic, there is absolutely no encounters in the entire game to this date that have not been comfortably defeated with any class / spec makeup you want.

Are there some fights that have certain mechanics that can be made much easier with a certain spec? absolutely. Does that suddenly invalidate all other classes for all other fights? not a fucking chance - Absolute drivel.

I am going to go out on a limb and say you pug normal and sometimes heroic?

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True story, classic is appealing because you know you’re not gonna get screwed by making a bad choice.

Wait......hang on.................are you trying to suggest that class balance was good in vanilla and all specs where viable in endgame content.......dear god please tell me thats not what you are trying to say - because it certainly looks like it....