[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Pann]

Not my fault you still think they're sane and not as much a danger to us through politics than anything else this country has faced.

And just how are you any different to these people you constantly denigrate?

[Kallisto]

And just how are you any different to these people you constantly denigrate?

Because I at least attempted to make peace over the years and they threw away the olive branch. I read what the experts say. I take in their lessons. I don't go around treating Europeans as an enemy like they do..

Tell me something how much trying to be civil to these people have changed their minds to the point they're willing to actually realise they are wrong. Because all you seem to be doing is bending over to them and having some kind of smugness about it.

[Crispin]

It's never going to work. Procurement will favour those nations who grease the EU Reichs palm the most. Again deployment will favour pet vanity projects e.g. French adventurism in Africa.

And that's all before pan-EU communication issues can be resolved. Forgetting language, some places in the EU you shake your head to mean yes, in others no, can you imagine the potential confusion on the battlefield?

Nah better off out of the EU army, in fact better off out of the corrupt EU as a whole.

You do realise that military cooperation across borders, language and cultures isnt exatcly new right?

The fact that you think differences between what headshaking means is a complication in regards to communication is fucking hilarious. The majority of EU members are already members of NATO, who according to your logic can't even agree on how to communicate yes/no. I seriously hope you're high when you post.

[Fuiking]

He isnt high Crispin, however hes a troll at worse.

[Pann]

Because I at least attempted to make peace over the years and they threw away the olive branch. I read what the experts say. I take in their lessons. I don't go around treating Europeans as an enemy like they do..

Tell me something how much trying to be civil to these people have changed their minds to the point they're willing to actually realise they are wrong. Because all you seem to be doing is bending over to them and having some kind of smugness about it.

Why would you even need to make peace with anyone? Because they voted differently to you?

Once again you attempt to stereotype leave voters in an attempt to attack them.

It seems to me, from your posts, that you occupy the flip side of the same shitty coin as the stereotypical Brexiteers you rage against.

[Pann]

Germany is re-arming? This is the Germany who does not meet NATO spending commitments? The same Germany that had to use broomsticks on exercises in place of guns? In 2017 all six German submarines were not operational and under half their Tornado Jets and CH-53 helicopters are ready.

In short the German military is in a mess (hence the Germans being none too keen on Ursula von der Leyen becoming EU president) and, even if Germany desired do so (just to be clear - it doesn't), it could not take over the world any more than Pinky and the Brain could.

So burner your paranoid xenophobia is entirely misplaced.

[Kronik85]

Earlier I said I wasn't sure what Labour's election strategy would be. Well my apologies, they've smashed it out of the park. Whilst BoJo promises to be tougher on crime and doling out money left and right Labour have found where he is weakest. Grouse shooting. Take that BoJo!

[Thekri]

Germany is re-arming? This is the Germany who does not meet NATO spending commitments? The same Germany that had to use broomsticks on exercises in place of guns? In 2017 all six German submarines were not operational and under half their Tornado Jets and CH-53 helicopters are ready.

In short the German military is in a mess (hence the Germans being none too keen on Ursula von der Leyen becoming EU president) and, even if Germany desired do so (just to be clear - it doesn't), it could not take over the world any more than Pinky and the Brain could.

So burner your paranoid xenophobia is entirely misplaced.

Ah, but so these are just facts. Those aren't relevant to their emotional arguments. In their world the EU is both skimping on their spending to screw the UK or US, and also rearming to install an evil new world order. These are somehow not contradictory, because logic is not involved in the first place.

The truth is that the UK is going to have to do its best to try to get back into a lot of these agreements anyway, and that is going to be pretty hard without the package deal. The UK simply doesn't have a military or an economy that can stand on its own, and changing that would take a seismic shift in national priorities.

[Slant]

Why would you even need to make peace with anyone? Because they voted differently to you?

Once again you attempt to stereotype leave voters in an attempt to attack them.

It seems to me, from your posts, that you occupy the flip side of the same shitty coin as the stereotypical Brexiteers you rage against.

I've realized what's so annoying about these posts of yours. You're positively trying to normalize insanity. Brexiteers are not normal. The are traitors to their nation. They are actively harming the livelihood of their fellow citizens, they are actively damaging the UK. And you think that is a valid standpoint. You think it's absolutely alright for them to burn the country to the ground as long as they get to say "but ze germans!"

I'm not saying that is your opinion. But the fact that you think it's a valid point of view really speaks volumes about you and your lack of perspective. This isn't merely a stupid discussion on a forum, we have at least one poster who already left her fucking country because of this mess. This is happening. People are affected by it massively. And most of them against their will, too. That you keep defending that and try to normalize it is despicable, especially since you can't seem to get off your high horse and judge other people for actually having an opinion...

Also, considering how you are pretty much planted right on top of the fence, how about we call you forum Corbyn from now on? Because that's what you are.

[Twdft]

Germany is re-arming? This is the Germany who does not meet NATO spending commitments? The same Germany that had to use broomsticks on exercises in place of guns? In 2017 all six German submarines were not operational and under half their Tornado Jets and CH-53 helicopters are ready.

In short the German military is in a mess (hence the Germans being none too keen on Ursula von der Leyen becoming EU president) and, even if Germany desired do so (just to be clear - it doesn't), it could not take over the world any more than Pinky and the Brain could.

So burner your paranoid xenophobia is entirely misplaced.

Germany having a not all that efficient army is a political decision.

Money isn't a problem for the richest country in Europe (since nation states only have to be able to pay interest and that is zero for Germany for a long time now), also there'd be enough unemployed young men who could perhaps be persuaded with some protect the Fatherland shit. Thing is: privates get paid A3 wages (corporal A5, seargant A6, second lieutenant A9). Everywhere else in civil service A6 is starting wages for jobs not requiring A level education, A9 if you have A level.

Germany could re-arm pretty fast just pay the soldiers better and pump money into equipment. Question is... does anyone actually want that? I as a German certainly not and I think our friends all over the world aren't that keen either.

[Kronik85]

I've realized what's so annoying about these posts of yours. You're positively trying to normalize insanity. Brexiteers are not normal. The are traitors to their nation. They are actively harming the livelihood of their fellow citizens, they are actively damaging the UK. And you think that is a valid standpoint. You think it's absolutely alright to burn the country to the ground as long as you get to say "but ze germans!"

I'm not saying that is your opinion. But the fact that you think it's a valid point of view really speaks volumes about you and your lack of perspective. This isn't merely a stupid discussion on a forum, we have at least one poster who already left her fucking country because of this mess. This is happening. People are affected by it massively. And most of them against their will, too. That you keep defending that and try to normalize it is despicable, especially since you can't seem to get off your high horse and judge other people for actually having an opinion...

Also, considering how you are pretty much planted right on top of the fence, how about we call you forum Corbyn from now on? Because that's what you are.

You are right until you are tremendously wrong lol. At no point does blaming the Germans factor into Pann's POV on Brexit. Maybe you are taking a wider approach here and looking at the UK as a whole but again you would be wrong. It's fun to poke at the Germans, maybe it's because we've been "trolling" for as long as we can remember as a nation but poking fun at the Germans is not the cornerstone of Brexit.

I understand your frustrations and fair play if you can't take this comment for what it's worth but, you aren't that important. Whilst we throw a lot of shit in Germany's direction, Germany has fuck all to do with Brexit or the UK's conscience as a whole.

[Kallisto]

Why would you even need to make peace with anyone? Because they voted differently to you?

Once again you attempt to stereotype leave voters in an attempt to attack them.

It seems to me, from your posts, that you occupy the flip side of the same shitty coin as the stereotypical Brexiteers you rage against.

Have you ever been around actual brexiteers? Seriously?

Because quite frankly the average brexiteer is Dribbles on steroids. All you have to do is walk a day down the street of places like Clacton and surrounding towns that is how they are. I have to put up with them every fucking day. You say vote differently? It's more than that. They have an inherent anti foreign sentiment that goes even to those that are born in the UK but have foreign parentage like myself.

You're acting as if Brexit is no big deal when it is a constutional crisis. You act as if playing nice will change their minds when it hasn't. Try it for 20+ years with the same response. Try throwing every fact you can showing it to be bad only to be responded with the same shit daily about how the UK is number 1 or how foreigners are scum. Try it. Maybe you grew up in a better area where people are civil. Until then the cliche is true.

[Pann]

Germany having a not all that efficient army is a political decision.

Money isn't a problem for the richest country in Europe (since nation states only have to be able to pay interest and that is zero for Germany for a long time now), also there'd be enough unemployed young men who could perhaps be persuaded with some protect the Fatherland shit. Thing is: privates get paid A3 wages (corporal A5, seargant A6, second lieutenant A9). Everywhere else in civil service A6 is starting wages for jobs not requiring A level education, A9 if you have A level.

Germany could re-arm pretty fast just pay the soldiers better and pump money into equipment. Question is... does anyone actually want that? I as a German certainly not and I think our friends all over the world aren't that keen either.

Quite obviously Germany's defence spending is a political decision however there are other issues that cannot be easily fixed with just money but all that is by the by and not really for this thread. The point of my post was simply to highlight that the claim that Germany is re-arming itself to take over the world was monumentally stupid.

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You are right until you are tremendously wrong lol. At no point does blaming the Germans factor into Pann's POV on Brexit. Maybe you are taking a wider approach here and looking at the UK as a whole but again you would be wrong. It's fun to poke at the Germans, maybe it's because we've been "trolling" for as long as we can remember as a nation but poking fun at the Germans is not the cornerstone of Brexit.

I understand your frustrations and fair play if you can't take this comment for what it's worth but, you aren't that important. Whilst we throw a lot of shit in Germany's direction, Germany has fuck all to do with Brexit or the UK's conscience as a whole.

That was me???

[Kronik85]

That was me???

I'll be honest, I think you are much better placed to know whether or not throwing shit at the Germans is a critical issue for yourself. I could very well be wrong in assuming it wasn't but again, I will cede to you that you probably know your own mind a little better than I do.

[Bakis]

Amusing that Boris is still able to play his voter base and support within parliament the card that "EU will budge" when there is no reason it should.

[Slant]

You are right until you are tremendously wrong lol. At no point does blaming the Germans factor into Pann's POV on Brexit. Maybe you are taking a wider approach here and looking at the UK as a whole but again you would be wrong. It's fun to poke at the Germans, maybe it's because we've been "trolling" for as long as we can remember as a nation but poking fun at the Germans is not the cornerstone of Brexit.

I understand your frustrations and fair play if you can't take this comment for what it's worth but, you aren't that important. Whilst we throw a lot of shit in Germany's direction, Germany has fuck all to do with Brexit or the UK's conscience as a whole.

I'm not saying that is his opinion. I'm saying he thinks that is a valid point of view. That's a subtle, but essential difference for my post. Read it again, see what I am actually talking about. I have rephrased the sentence, maybe that'll make it clearer. Also, "ze Germans" is really just an example, because it came up in the past page. Replace it with <random Brexiteer madness> if that makes you feel better.

[Pann]

Have you ever been around actual brexiteers? Seriously?

Because quite frankly the average brexiteer is Dribbles on steroids. All you have to do is walk a day down the street of places like Clacton and surrounding towns that is how they are. I have to put up with them every fucking day. You say vote differently? It's more than that. They have an inherent anti foreign sentiment that goes even to those that are born in the UK but have foreign parentage like myself.

You're acting as if Brexit is no big deal when it is a constutional crisis. You act as if playing nice will change their minds when it hasn't. Try it for 20+ years with the same response. Try throwing every fact you can showing it to be bad only to be responded with the same shit daily about how the UK is number 1 or how foreigners are scum. Try it. Maybe you grew up in a better area where people are civil. Until then the cliche is true.

Yes, I have and not just on twitter.

No they are not! This is more of your bullshit.

No, I am not although constitutional crisis is rather hyperbolic. Perhaps you should stop trying to change their minds? It's not going to happen. I'm not for one moment saying that racism, xenophobia or bigotry does not exist in the UK but it is far from the issue you try to portray and is certainly not an exclusive trait of leave voters.

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I'll be honest, I think you are much better placed to know whether or not throwing shit at the Germans is a critical issue for yourself. I could very well be wrong in assuming it wasn't but again, I will cede to you that you probably know your own mind a little better than I do.

To be honest this is the first I've heard that I have an issue with the Germans. But I mean what do I know? Or you for that matter? Every day's a school day, huh?!?

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Amusing that Boris is still able to play his voter base and support within parliament the card that "EU will budge" when there is no reason it should.

Johnson is not saying that all.

[Slant]

To be honest this is the first I've heard that I have an issue with the Germans. But I mean what do I know? Or you for that matter? Every day's a school day, huh?!?

Try reading the post again. The point is not you having an issue with Germans, the point is you validating an insane opinion and defending their right to be insane and in the process burn your country to the ground. Big picture, Pann. Big picture.

[Bakis]

Johnson is not saying that all.

No? Have he accomplished anything beside sending envoys to the EU (that does not take Johnson seriously since he has a habit of being a turncoat) and stating that a hard brexit is an option.

What are the odds that the EU would side with a leaving member state above a current member not to mention that it was the UK that started this procedure (which is its right).

None. Hes just another populist with a minimum amount of time to accomplish anything. There is of course the chance that it would suit him to extend domestically, but that begs the question again. Can he be trusted as in trusted by either the EU or his voter base.

[Kronik85]

I'm not saying that is his opinion. I'm saying he thinks that is a valid point of view. That's a subtle, but essential difference for my post. Read it again, see what I am actually talking about. I have rephrased the sentence, maybe that'll make it clearer. Also, "ze Germans" is really just an example, because it came up in the past page. Replace it with <random Brexiteer madness> if that makes you feel better.

I'm not sure they do but a much better place to argue with Pann about Pann's opinions probably involves Pann themselves rather than myself. Personally I think you are over blowing your own (and by that I mean Germany's significance) in Brexit. Yes, most Brexiteers will sing 10 German Bombers when given any opportunity but it's a mistake to think that this is why Brexit gained such traction. Brexit is largely a consequence of Right Wing Papers and Politicians using the EU as a scapegoat for as long as I've been alive coupled with an apathy for educating the masses as to what the EU does. Taking the piss out of the Germans is just a national characteristic, one I will admit is fucking retarded at this point and maybe the Germans should start taking the piss out of us now that we have dropped all pretence to British superiority.