[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[ati87]

What does "autistic towards facts" mean? Serious question because in my experience us autistic people are very good with facts.

A Dutch thing really, not taken literally with actual autisme since this guy is trolling.
Factually we know that Ireland and the EU are on the same wavelength in how to handel the Brexit but then you have this trolls arguing the opposite, like if we all said the sky is blue he would argue no it's purple.

[nRes]

And that's where we are then. So we leave with no deal on October 31st, the backstop is gone never to be seen again as we've left the EU without one, then revisit the issue of a FTA. Problem solved.

Let's hope the winter is not a hard one and Irish bellies remain full and there is little disruption to the EU/UK/Irish land bridge.

Who'd have thought the EU would throw the Irish under a bus and act against their best interests. Tsk tsk...the price some EU fanatics are willing to pay.

The UK created this though. We can argue how good or bad the EU is, but the UK started this whole mess. Maybe before voting to leave the EU you should have come up with a solid plan on how to do it and then execute on that plan, instead of just yoloing the whole thing. What is the EU supposed to do exactly, annex Northern Ireland and add it to Ireland? How about the UK fixing this by giving up Northern Ireland and this whole issue is fixed? You wanted to have borders, remember? Well you will now.

[Mayhem]

So is this food shortage stuff comment just trolling? Because the only mentions I could find regarding food shortages and Brexit are going to happen to the British, not the Irish.

[Noradin]

I do wonder, is there any poll that shows how the British feel about the original EU backstop proposal (that is a sea border between NI and the rest of the UK)?

It's not like there aren't already checks between NI and GB, like there isn't already legal and constitutional divergence.

[Noradin]

So is this food shortage stuff comment just trolling? Because the only mentions I could find regarding food shortages and Brexit are going to happen to the British, not the Irish.

No, Priti patel, who was now appointed Home Secretary did propose threathening the Republic of Ireland with food shortages to get them to support the UK's side in Brexit negotiations. She later claimed she was misrepresented and did not mean food in particular but all shortages in gerneral.

She is also in favour of the death penalty.

[Pann]

Actually the latter will be an issue with No Deal beyond the backstop. The GFA guarantees that any UK or RoI citizen of NI has the right to bring issues of human rights to the ECJ. So if the UK tries to claim that the ECJ has no jurisdiction over NI they can be sued by their citizens.

No, it doesn't.

[ati87]

While I cannot comment on food specifically, the RoI's economy WILL suffer more than the UK economy with a No Deal Brexit. Every scenario so far has shown that. There are companies in Ireland that have their supply chain spread across the island, those just cannot work if a border suddenly exists.

The entire European economy has been build around access to the single market, including ofc Ireland and the UK. So whatever short term problem Ireland may face it would be easier to fix then what the UK will face when they lose access to the single market.

That Ireland is importing allot of stuff from the UK is only normal, your best trading partner will always be your neighbors and there is no real substitute regardless of the fairy tells the Brexit camp is telling people.

[Flarelaine]

Nonsense, everyone knows that there will be zero adverse consequences for England and everything will be magical. It's everyone else that'll have all the bad things happen to them!

*cue the 10-hour version of Pink Fluffy Unicorns*

[Slant]

And that's where we are then. So we leave with no deal on October 31st, the backstop is gone never to be seen again as we've left the EU without one, then revisit the issue of a FTA. Problem solved.

Let's hope the winter is not a hard one and Irish bellies remain full and there is little disruption to the EU/UK/Irish land bridge.

Who'd have thought the EU would throw the Irish under a bus and act against their best interests. Tsk tsk...the price some EU fanatics are willing to pay.

The Irish? They will be fine. The Northern Irish, however, are your problem.

[gtempest]

No, it doesn't.

Check out strand 1, section 5. it specifically references the ECHR and its implementation and enforcement in which the ECJ has ultimate jurisdiction.
The withdrawal agreement also specifically has a part covering the ECHR and jurisdiction of the courts.
As it stands on a no-deal brexit there would be no legislation to supercede the belfast agreement so the ECJ would still hold overall jurisdiction, (there is supposed to be north/south co operational through assemblies etc but as we know NI isn't sitting)
This power vacuum is also why dominic raab suggested in a no deal scenario could mean direct rule from westminster be reimplemented.
One thing that is certain is the legal situation is complicated in a no deal scenario as there is a truckload of regulatory alignment etc in the belfast agreement and atm while ROi and NI issues escalate to ECJ, the UK could choose to not recognise the ECJs role in arbitration and undermine the agreement. Politically certainly very risky, legal? Thats for lawyers to squabble over.

[lagiacrux]

That is not a decision for the EU but for Ireland. Now the backstop is dead they face a choice. Ditch the backstop and everything is hunky dory or :-

i STILL dont get it. whats the solution here? open border between the UK and EU through northern ireland?
i thought the UK wants to "take back control" of their borders? is free movement through northern ireland not counter to that?

[Noradin]

i STILL dont get it. whats the solution here? open border between the UK and EU through northern ireland?
i thought the UK wants to "take back control" of their borders? is free movement through northern ireland not counter to that?

The RoI leaving the EU and crawling back to their betters in Westminster begging to become part of the glorious Empire once more.
Obviously.

[zealo]

Regarding the EU throwing Ireland under the bus, that's not quite what's happening when they're preparing multi-billion aid packages to shield RoI against the impacts of a no-deal brexit.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKCN1UG0S8

The ones that will truly get a raw deal in the case of no-deal are the Irish in Northern Ireland, that will then have to rely on Westminster to provide equivalent support for them during it.

[Pann]

https://peacemaker.un.org/sites/peac...0Agreement.pdf
Page 18

And? That does not say what you claim. There is no mention of the ECJ and the European Convention on Human Rights is overseen by the European Court of Human Rights, which is not the ECJ nor is it anything to do with the ECJ.

Although if you want to get technical the GFA enshrining the ECHR into UK law meant that the Human Rights Act 1998 was altered to allow breaches of the human rights act to be remedied in UK courts without the need for the case to be heard in the ECtHR.

- - - Updated - - -

Hmm, this Guardian piece sounds eerily familiar.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...P=share_btn_tw

[dribbles]

Hmm, this Guardian piece sounds eerily familiar.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...P=share_btn_tw

Are you insinuating that the remainist phenomenon is strong on mmo-c? Nice article! Lots of lols. And from the Guardian too, very surprising.

[Pann]

Are you insinuating that the remainist phenomenon is strong on mmo-c?

Of course not!

[sircaw]

Of course not!

You two need to be careful, pitchfork's will be incoming.

[Kallisto]

The RoI leaving the EU and crawling back to their betters in Westminster begging to become part of the glorious Empire once more.
Obviously.

Well a few Tories did do the "Ireland should know their place." viewpoint in many of the debates.

[LeGin Tufnel]

You two need to be careful, pitchfork's will be incoming.

Why? It's a good piece.

The only thing missing is where the author thinks this is going to end.

He concludes:

"I wondered what would happen to these people after Brexit."

Notice the careful use of "would" and not "will".

[Pann]

Corbyn has hatched a plan to stop Brexit (kinda) - make him PM!

https://news.sky.com/story/jeremy-co...ry-pm-11785448

Lib Dems has said that they will not back Corbyn being PM and the SNP are being cagey about it on Newsnight so the question is will Corbyn back a confidence motion without being PM?