Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[Ghostpanther]

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If by more attractive you mean "won't have your children taken from you and get placed in a concentration camp and you might even get to file your asylum claim within a reasonable timeframe", then I guess guilty as charged.

So she does stand for open borders. And hear I was wondering if that was just anti-Warren rhetoric. Thanks for clarifying.

[shimerra]

So she does stand for open borders. And hear I was wondering if that was just anti-Warren rhetoric. Thanks for clarifying.

Following the Constitution and avoiding cruel and unusual punishment of children is open borders? And also allowing people to legally file for asylum as was their legal right means open borders?

My God you people are sociopaths on top of just not being very smart. These are basic words and your irrational phobia of immigrants is not a moral or appropriate legal stance.

[DarkTZeratul]

Following the Constitution and avoiding cruel and unusual punishment of children is open borders? And also allowing people to legally file for asylum as was their legal right means open borders?

My God you people are sociopaths on top of just not being very smart. These are basic words and your irrational phobia of immigrants is not a moral or appropriate legal stance.

Apparently "open borders" to them means any possible form of "letting immigrants in."

[Gestopft]

Sanders has been on the chopping block since the start. He's offered nothing particularly new since 2016 and doesn't have wide appeal like Warren does. If the progressives want to stand a chance at the nomination, Sanders needs to throw his support and weight behind Warren or the progressives will once again whine about how the establishment centrist won and they got cheated out of a nomination by the DNC in some dumb conspiracy theory.

NYT recently had a map showing the which Democratic candidate was the most donated to all over the country. The map was so overwhelmingly Sanders, that they had to make a second map excluding him to show where the other candidates are getting support from. And look at the map: his donor numbers aren't getting juiced by urban areas that always vote Democratic; he's getting the highest support (amongst Democrats) in a ton of rural areas, and a recent poll showed both him and Biden beating Trump by two points in Texas. Yes, mathematically he and Warren could eat each other and pave Biden's way, but I think you (and to be fair, the beltway press too) greatly underestimate his appeal.

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I expect the 2020 whine to be "winner take all voting is BULLSHIT. The DNC rigged the game*"

The whininess won't actually invalidate the completely valid critiques of our voting and primary systems.

[Edge-]

So she does stand for open borders. And hear I was wondering if that was just anti-Warren rhetoric. Thanks for clarifying.

https://www.vox.com/2019/7/12/206902...-proposal-2020

Migrants who enter the US without papers would still be committing a crime, and they could still be deported. But as Dara Lind explained for Vox earlier this year, making crossing the border without papers a civil offense would have big ramifications, including ending the practice of family separation.

Warren also says she would get rid of government contracts with private detention facilities, and cut down on the use of detention for migrants awaiting their day in court altogether. She cited Vox’s reporting on alternatives to detention facilities, including electronic monitoring and social work monitoring, in identifying programs she’d invest in.

No, not open borders at all. Unless your definition of open borders is, "We don't kidnap kids from their parents and leave them all in squalid, crowded, unhealthy conditions with the very real possibility that the family may never be reunited."

[Gestopft]

Apparently "open borders" to them means any possible form of "letting immigrants in."

It doesn't help that the GoP/Right-wing media strategy is to simply lie about what Democrats believe because the GoP's policies are so unpopular and they can't even defend them with their own voters.

[Ghostpanther]

https://www.vox.com/2019/7/12/206902...-proposal-2020





No, not open borders at all. Unless your definition of open borders is, "We don't kidnap kids from their parents and leave them all in squalid, crowded, unhealthy conditions with the very real possibility that the family may never be reunited."

It appears to be open borders to me if the worse thing they have to worry about is a simple deportation, ( if they are caught ) and then they get to come back again. Which I have read many did under Obama. Unless the borders are secured properly, they will keep trying to come back..illegally. Meanwhile those who are trying to get in here legally, have to wait. Yeah, I am not for that.

[shimerra]

I think the main stumbling block for all these Dems is immigration issue in which all have been pressed into being defacto for Open Borders in all but name.

I mean when people like yourself define not criminally abusing children as open borders there's really not many other places to be. Anything short of not spending 100 trillion dollars to hunt down and deport all illegals using any means necessary morals and ethics be damned seems to be open borders. There's literally no negotiating with people who have positions that out of touch with reality and rigid.


It's only the particularly dense, like need assistance dressing yourself, thinking that open borders is even the stance of the furthest left of all the candidates running now. And considering the usual republican platform is they only have an issue with illegals and the Trump admin had made it massively harder for legal asylum seekers and legal immigrants to come through, on top of deporting/detaining a few American citizens, your analysis couldn't be more off if you were paid to be wrong and had 10 years to research next and exciting ways to fuck up.

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It appears to be open borders to me if the worse thing they have to worry about is a simple deportation, ( if they are caught ) and then they get to come back again. Which I have read many did under Obama. Unless the borders are secured properly, they will keep trying to come back..illegally. Meanwhile those who are trying to get in here legally, have to wait. Yeah, I am not for that.

Where are you reading this? Project veritas or some blaze blog? You are aware crack downs on immigration on bush actually increased the numbers of illegals in America because rather than moving in a cyclical fashion for economic reasons the difficulties of going back just caused them to choose to stay? Obama again was known as the deporter in chief and it wasn't this magical walk in the park you lie about to cross either.

Also your god-king is clogging up immigration courts, which were backed up to begin with, with stupid policy changes like removing interpreters for immigration judges and has made policy changes that are difficult for your lauded legal immigrants as well as perfectly legal asylum seekers.

[Gestopft]

I mean when people like yourself define not criminally abusing children as open borders there's really not many other places to be.


It's only the particularly dense, like need assistance dressing yourself, thinking that open borders is even the stance of the furthest left of all the candidates running now. And considering the usual republican platform is they only have an issue with illegals and the Trump admin had made it massively harder for legal asylum seekers and legal immigrants to come through, on top of deporting/detaining a few American citizens, your analysis couldn't be more off if you were paid to be wrong and had 10 years to research next and exciting ways to fuck up.

Despite being utterly wrong about what Democrats' actual plans for immigration are, she is right that immigration is the biggest stumbling block for Democratic candidates in much of the country.

[shimerra]

Despite being utterly wrong about what Democrats' actual plans for immigration are, she is right that immigration is the biggest stumbling block for Democratic candidates in much of the country.

I mean she's technically right which counts for something I guess. But I was always taught that understanding the why and the how are as important as the result because if you don't understand how or why you can't repeat it. It's why even though we have computer programs for everything I still needed to to the various economics and statistical proofs to understand how SAS or STATA were outputting their numbers. She was half right in that it was a stumbling block for Democrats, but wrong in the why and a lot of that has to do with her own extremism. Which extremists never think they are they always think they're moderates.

I had an economics professor who had probably my favorite way of testing, but that may just be because I always did well under it. He did multiple choice and while there were A,B,C,D,E there could be multiple right answers each worth a point. Obviously you got said point for picking it but what you also did is you lost a point any time you "guessed" a wrong answer. His argument being that it was far more honest in the job market to acknowledge you didn't know something than to double down on your ignorance. The way he balanced that out was he took the average "wrong" guesses for the class and added it to everyone's score. So if you consistently picked right answers but didn't randomly guess wrong answers you got a nice boost. If you were just selecting crap and didn't know the material the extra points didn't save you and you were at the bottom of the class. It was a clever way in my opinion of balancing out the guessing nature that always makes multiple choice weak.

Theo is the person who thinks they know and guesses constantly. Making it so that the constant random answering even if she got a lot of right answers drags her scores back down into the F range. I mean with that much literal verbal diarrhea you're bound to get something partially right.

[Endus]

It appears to be open borders to me if the worse thing they have to worry about is a simple deportation, ( if they are caught ) and then they get to come back again.

Then you're misusing the term.

I backpacked through Europe before the EU became a thing; I crossed something like 13 or 14 international borders in that time. Those checks were almost entirely taken care of on trains, with a customs official walking down and checking passports. That was the entire thing, it wasn't much different from when the conductor checked tickets.

Those weren't "open" borders. You can tell, because they were checking documentation to determine if you'd be allowed entry.

You folks have no clue what "open borders" mean. Anything short of the New Berlin Wall is going to be argued to be "open borders" by you folks. It's asinine.

[Felya]

Warren is beating sanders in new polling. Tick tock.

Unfortunately, saying... as expected... is just spam. So... let me sing a little tune... doom... doom... doom...

I think that was predictable from the debates. Warren showed passion, Bernie tried... but, seemed to fall asleep at times. Not as as bad as Biden... but... Biden... Just sayin’... see ya in 3030...

[tyrlaan]

Sanders has been on the chopping block since the start. He's offered nothing particularly new since 2016 and doesn't have wide appeal like Warren does. If the progressives want to stand a chance at the nomination, Sanders needs to throw his support and weight behind Warren or the progressives will once again whine about how the establishment centrist won and they got cheated out of a nomination by the DNC in some dumb conspiracy theory.

As a huge Bernie supporter, I completely agree with this.

So she does stand for open borders. And hear I was wondering if that was just anti-Warren rhetoric. Thanks for clarifying.

Ah, so you just don't know what "open borders" means. Thanks for clarifying.

[Dextroden]

Then you're misusing the term.

I backpacked through Europe before the EU became a thing; I crossed something like 13 or 14 international borders in that time. Those checks were almost entirely taken care of on trains, with a customs official walking down and checking passports. That was the entire thing, it wasn't much different from when the conductor checked tickets.

Those weren't "open" borders. You can tell, because they were checking documentation to determine if you'd be allowed entry.

You folks have no clue what "open borders" mean. Anything short of the New Berlin Wall is going to be argued to be "open borders" by you folks. It's asinine.

But checking documents is super racist or people wouldn't compare showing your ID to fascism.

[Cthulhu 2020]

NYT recently had a map showing the which Democratic candidate was the most donated to all over the country. The map was so overwhelmingly Sanders, that they had to make a second map excluding him to show where the other candidates are getting support from. And look at the map: his donor numbers aren't getting juiced by urban areas that always vote Democratic; he's getting the highest support (amongst Democrats) in a ton of rural areas, and a recent poll showed both him and Biden beating Trump by two points in Texas. Yes, mathematically he and Warren could eat each other and pave Biden's way, but I think you (and to be fair, the beltway press too) greatly underestimate his appeal.

His appeal is low in key primary states and low in general election key swing states, that's all that really matters in the end. Sanders isn't going to be flipping any states blue that Warren couldn't flip.

[Flarelaine]

I backpacked through Europe before the EU became a thing; I crossed something like 13 or 14 international borders in that time. Those checks were almost entirely taken care of on trains, with a customs official walking down and checking passports. That was the entire thing, it wasn't much different from when the conductor checked tickets.

I went on a bus trip with a group from my high school.

The Hungarian-Austrian border was like "Do you all have passports? Hold them up! - Thanks."

Austrian-German was "Do you all have passports? - Thanks."

German-Belgian was "Hey, those signs aren't German."

Belgian-French we slept through.

The first proper checks were at Dover.

And that was two years after the Iron Curtain and one year after the Berlin Wall came down.

[Cracked]

I went on a bus trip with a group from my high school.

The Hungarian-Austrian border was like "Do you all have passports? Hold them up! - Thanks."

Austrian-German was "Do you all have passports? - Thanks."

German-Belgian was "Hey, those signs aren't German."

Belgian-French we slept through.

The first proper checks were at Dover.

And that was two years after the Iron Curtain and one year after the Berlin Wall came down.

Sometimes it was smooth and other times it wasn't. My parents were always scared shitless when crossing borders in case there is some problem. And sometimes there was and we took 3 hours instead of 5 minutes. Ultimately it was pretty pointless other than enforcing differing laws between countries, but there also wasn't a ton of immigration, let alone illegal. You know it's not just that. After living in the US for some time, I can see why it's much easier to live here illegally. In Europe, even in the 90s, you would have a hard fucking time being fully undocumented.

[Ghostpanther]

As a huge Bernie supporter, I completely agree with this.



Ah, so you just don't know what "open borders" means. Thanks for clarifying.

Yes I do and you helped to clarify she is basically for them. Bernie and Warren, are two peas in a pot. She, along with Bernie, Harris and Booker, with some others may as well start their own party. Call it the Democratic Socialist Party.

Right now, I can see a Biden/Gabbard ticket as a good choice and they would make a formidable team.

[tyrlaan]

Yes I do and you helped to clarify she is basically for them. Bernie and Warren, are two peas in a pot. She, along with Bernie, Harris and Booker, with some others may as well start their own party. Call it the Democratic Socialist Party.

Right now, I can see a Biden/Gabbard ticket as a good choice and they would make a formidable team.

Your willful ignorance is incredibly strong. Go you!

Also, didn't we already cover how little we care about your "recommendations" for who should win the Dem ticket? They're about as genuine as your use of the words "open borders".

[Ghostpanther]

Your willful ignorance is incredibly strong. Go you!

Also, didn't we already cover how little we care about your "recommendations" for who should win the Dem ticket? They're about as genuine as your use of the words "open borders".

Why is it, too many on here cannot say they simply disagree with someone, rather than first insulting them? I have no issues with someone disagreeing with me. I do with how they do. Anyway, I will make it so there is no issue between us anymore.

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Sometimes it was smooth and other times it wasn't. My parents were always scared shitless when crossing borders in case there is some problem. And sometimes there was and we took 3 hours instead of 5 minutes. Ultimately it was pretty pointless other than enforcing differing laws between countries, but there also wasn't a ton of immigration, let alone illegal. You know it's not just that. After living in the US for some time, I can see why it's much easier to live here illegally. In Europe, even in the 90s, you would have a hard fucking time being fully undocumented.

And this is why, walls do help with illegal immigration. And if Sanders, Warren and other radical Democrats have their way, it will be even easier than it is now to come here illegally.