No Ret Pallies

[munkeyinorbit]

The point I'm making went completely over your head.

Now, in 2019, people actually KNOW what specific gear pieces to obtain to make these "off" specs not so "off". In 2004, 2005 and even 2006, people had absolutely not a clue. As of now, there are TONS of spreadsheets for BiS pieces. This was never available back in 04, 05 or 06.

It's a pity these sheets are wrong. Everytime one is shared here it is picked apart and then the op is like "but nah, it's close". There is not one single source of bis info that is correct.

[HitRefresh]

Just FYI in case any newbies are coming to classic or returning vanilla people hoping this time "it will be different". It won't be. Ret pallies will still not be allowed in 5 mans and definitely won't get any raid spots. Just be warned if you intent to spec ret be prepared to play solo. You will also not be appreciated Q'ing into BGs, and definitely won't be getting into any premades.

Playing a Ret Pally just filters out people like you.

[bmjclark]

As always, the issue isn't "Can it be done" it's "Will anyone invite a class that does 50% of the damage of a real class". 2 very different issues. If you form a group with friends, you'll be fine. If you try to join a group as a ret paladin, it wont happen in probably 75% of situations because dps are a dime a dozen.

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As I said before, Ret palas are the best Nightfall users, you can keep JoW up, extra blessings (and guarantee salvation on the raid), an extra dispell and have an extra DI. And you might say "oh but you can bring an holy paladin and still have all that except the Nightfall debuff" which is true but you can have more healer diversity and bring more druids can that insta rezz and priests while still retaining all the Paladin blessings and everything that I mentioned earlier. How is that bad?

A warrior gets higher uptime on Nightfall while also doing more damage than a ret paladin. Im not sure the advantage is as clear cut as you think it is.

[Sariengrey]

People wanted Vanilla, they are getting it ….warts and all. Rets stink, that's the way it was in Vanilla that's the way it will, and should, be. Enjoy.

[Frolk]

Gonna need at least 1 Ret for MC, who else is we gonna give Thunder Strike too?

[enigma77]

Best thing about Vanilla is that there's no silly hybrid dpsing. If you can heal, you heal, like you should.

[arkanon]

@arkanon what Ninjaturtle just said.

IN FACT, you can do a better job as a Protection Paladin... using a two handed weapon, blessing of salvation and consecration and then having points on the Protection tree, rather than the Retribution tree.

You can get carried. Yes. But you literally will be leeching. Instead of being usefull and helpfull. Its the same with Druids, Balance druids its not as good as retail (yeah) and feral its just.... a tank. But resto its actually really good... only if you bring 1... 1!!!!! and for some reason, resto its better for pvp than feral and balance... really.

Well we also shouldnt be talking with "class spec names" all the classes are all specs on classic, you just chooses what points to use.

So DPS paladin? not worth the effort.. unless you want to RP or you have very very good friends.

No idea why you are mentioning me here....

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The point I'm making went completely over your head.

Now, in 2019, people actually KNOW what specific gear pieces to obtain to make these "off" specs not so "off". In 2004, 2005 and even 2006, people had absolutely not a clue. As of now, there are TONS of spreadsheets for BiS pieces. This was never available back in 04, 05 or 06.

But that is the case for EVERY class, and EVERY spec, so the gap remains the same. BUZZZZZ, try again.

[bmjclark]

Gonna need at least 1 Ret for MC, who else is we gonna give Thunder Strike too?

A hunter, duh

[Frolk]

A hunter, duh

Your right, i had forgotten about the bigger meme spec, melee hunter.

[Dextroden]

I love threads like these. It reminds me that, if people had their way, the only classes would be warrior, priest, rogue and mage.

[Heathy]

we had a ret pala in our raids, I think if you want all pala buffs, expect to have one of each pala spec. if you want a pala to go improved might then that pala might aswell go full ret so the other palas can go full holy. and maybe one pala can get sanctuary.

i don't know much about palas but I do remember some dude talking about agility stacking for crit, i dunno how well that worked but I remember the discussion was something like 'agility stacking kinda worked' feel free to correct my bullshit. it might have been tbc where agi stacking helped with crit % and not classic. there is loot thats likely only good for ret anyway so if you have 1 ret pala that loot that doesn't get DE.

[Gerron]

The problem with this tread is thinking that the only thing a Ret pally brings is dps and that a Paladin needs more than 21 points into holy to heal.

[bmjclark]

The problem with this tread is thinking that the only thing a Ret pally brings is dps and that a Paladin needs more than 21 points into holy to heal.

Why bring 25% of a dps and 10% of a healer when you could bring 100% of either?

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we had a ret pala in our raids, I think if you want all pala buffs, expect to have one of each pala spec. if you want a pala to go improved might then that pala might aswell go full ret so the other palas can go full holy. and maybe one pala can get sanctuary.

There's honestly a fairly good chance almost every holy paladin will run 5 points into ret for imp might outside of raiding and you'll just have 1 run 5 points into ret for it. There's absolutely no logic to destroying one of your raid slots over 5 points into a tree.

[Heathy]

There's honestly a fairly good chance almost every holy paladin will run 5 points into ret for imp might outside of raiding and you'll just have 1 run 5 points into ret for it. There's absolutely no logic to destroying one of your raid slots over 5 points into a tree.

I mean you can't destroy a raid with one sub optimal spec. at the end of the day your raiding with ppl who are fun to raid with and have the dedication to show up, whether you can min/max a raid to the nth degree is really secondary to having a bunch of ppl show up every raid consistently. one ret pala isn't going to be the difference between clearing the content and not clearing the content. if someone wants to go ret, who really cares. if it was my raid guild, I honestly wouldn't give a single fuck if one pala wanted to go ret it really wouldn't bother me in the slightest. but if i had a raiding guild it wouldn't be min/maxing to the nth degree on t1 either.

[Zyky]

That's not true at all. I have no problem being in a 5-man with a ret pally.

Most groups will not take a DPS Pally, you're next to worthless in 5 man content.

[cparle87]

1.12 is a really different game than real vanilla.

It's already begun. People saying that 1.12, which is what classic will be based on, is not real vanilla. That's why I was against classic from the beginning. Because everyone has their own opinion of what real vanilla is, and nearly all of them are going to end up disappointed that their vision was not the one made reality.

[Fuiking]

Warlocks werent that great either thanks to the limited amount of debuffs one could place.. + the amount of threat several spells did.

[arkanon]

we had a ret pala in our raids, I think if you want all pala buffs, expect to have one of each pala spec.

i don't know much about palas

The second part is VERY obvious. You are wrong on every count, but in particular suggesting a raid should have a ret pally, AND a prot pally, just for buffs. If you have no idea about this stuff, feel free to offer an opinion, but please don't give advice like this, it's bad for everyone.

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The problem with this tread is thinking that the only thing a Ret pally brings is dps and that a Paladin needs more than 21 points into holy to heal.

The problem with your post is that it is intentionally extremely vague so as not to make a fool of yourself, because clearly you are confused.

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People wanted Vanilla, they are getting it ….warts and all. Rets stink, that's the way it was in Vanilla that's the way it will, and should, be. Enjoy.

Yup, I think most ppl saw this coming. This is one step before "why can't I play X spec in Y content? This isn't fair! No one warned me!"

[Heathy]

The second part is VERY obvious. You are wrong on every count, but in particular suggesting a raid should have a ret pally, AND a prot pally, just for buffs. If you have no idea about this stuff, feel free to offer an opinion, but please don't give advice like this, it's bad for everyone.

cry me a river. ppl are gunna play however the hell they wanna play, they are gunna spec however the hell they wanna spec, are you going to tell me that paladins are not going to organize their specs to 1) ensure enough of them are healing and 2) they can bring each buff.
this control freakish elitistism is hilarious like ppl assume they are some authority on everything related to classic wow.

do you do anything else other than think about this one period of gaming history? is there any other hobby you have besides obsessing over classic and berating anyone who thinks differently about it than you? do you give any thought whatsoever about any raid comp that isn't the absolute dream team? because lets face it ppl are gunna take who they can get. not every guild is going to have the ultimate comp. every comp is going to differ slightly. some raids will have more rogues, some will have more palas, some might have more mages. you make do with what you have.

its classic at the end of the day you really just don't need to try-hard that much. unless you have your 39 other guild members ready, ppl are going to have to assemble teams and those recruits may not turn out to be the most optimal raid comp. thats just a fact, you can wait and wait and wait for the right classes to join, or you can piece what you have together and try to kill stuff.

[Gaidax]

In the end everything will fall into place.

No matter how much chest thumping is done here, some specs will simply be shunned and will be bottom feeders because feels aside - they are mechanically poor, do not compete and as such won't be a first or even second pick for most runs.

DPS Paladin is one such spec and that's a fact.