No Ret Pallies

[Shiny212]

Priest will simply do the same thing you would do, drop shadow form and heal up your piddly damage if needed while burning you.

Don't be baited by rogue? They will take your HP to 0 and you won't be able to do shit about it unless you bubble because they can interrupt each and every heal otherwise. Bubble is inevitable and once it's gone they just get away and come back a minute later.

I can see you have no vanilla experience whatsoever, these above were textbook things pretty much.

Just not true though. Rogues take quite a while to kill a pally unless there's a huge gear disparity, priests are squishy as hell and cant face heal your damage unless again, there's a huge gear disparity.

In my mind it's you who's got little pvp experience, lots of holes in your knowledge; outrunning paladins for instance, (they ran faster than pretty much everyone), dunno why you'd think it's somehow easier to kite a paladin than a warrior. Retris are fine, I really do invite you to check out youtube in coming months where people will be posting pvp vids of any class you can think of doing really well when played right.

[Gaidax]

Just not true though. Rogues take quite a while to kill a pally unless there's a huge gear disparity, priests are squishy as hell and cant face heal your damage unless again, there's a huge gear disparity.

In my mind it's you who's got little pvp experience, lots of holes in your knowledge; outrunning paladins for instance, (they ran faster than pretty much everyone) retris are fine, I really do invite you to check out youtube in coming months where people will be posting pvp vids of any class you can think of doing really well when played right.

Paladin damage is simply ignorable, you don't proc SoC or crit every autoattack and you have 3.6 seconds delay between each. This is ample time to out heal all of your shit.

The only exception is AA+SoC Crit in one swing, good luck with that.

Looking forward to your amazing paladin action PvP videos where they show this exact once in a blue moon thing vs random mouth breathers like McHammer did.

[Shiny212]

Paladin damage is simply ignorable, you don't proc SoC or crit every autoattack and you have 3.6 seconds delay between each. This is ample time to out heal all of your shit.

The only exception is AA+SoC Crit in one swing, good luck with that.

Looking forward to your amazing paladin action PvP videos where they show this exact once in a blue thing vs random mouth breathers.

Alright, lets see you ignore it, that's when the RNG strikes and it's basically a 1shot. Law of averages is on your side. until it's not.

[Machismo]

Most groups will not take a DPS Pally, you're next to worthless in 5 man content.

They're fine in 5-man. The content will be so damn easy, that most people simply won't care. The ret pally will get into a guild if he wants one, and will have no serious issues getting groups. Now, getting into raids is a different story.

[Joycey]

hunters or nothing

[Necromantic]

They're fine in 5-man. The content will be so damn easy, that most people simply won't care. The ret pally will get into a guild if he wants one, and will have no serious issues getting groups. Now, getting into raids is a different story.

You are correct. Most 5-man content is easy enough at 60 where people can beat it using fishing poles.

Raid content isn't new. It's been done by so many people and the strategies have been out there for years. It's not like retail when people go into one of these raids with the mindset of "ok, so lets figure out how these mechanics work...".

Given how much knowledge is already out there and the fact that WoW does not have 10M+ subs as it did when this was relevant content, I can see people in "less-than-socially-accepted" specs finding homes/places.

[Machismo]

You are correct. Most 5-man content is easy enough at 60 where people can beat it using fishing poles.

Raid content isn't new. It's been done by so many people and the strategies have been out there for years. It's not like retail when people go into one of these raids with the mindset of "ok, so lets figure out how these mechanics work...".

Given how much knowledge is already out there and the fact that WoW does not have 10M+ subs as it did when this was relevant content, I can see people in "less-than-socially-accepted" specs finding homes/places.

I'm simply saying that it will be much more difficult for a ret pally to find a home in a raid. Loot drops less often than in retail, and most guilds won't want to see it go to a class that cannot make any decent use out of it. Sure, casual guilds may take one, but since the content is pretty easy, they would also take any other DPS ahead of them.

[Necromantic]

I guess time will tell. I'm sure it won't be a huge HUGE deal with 1000 Rets running around looking for homes. I tried the spec and it wasn't fun... not until TBC.

[Chaotic1962]

Rubbish. Absolute Rubbish.

These forums are also full of how Classic will be a complete flop and wont even crack 10k subs. Do you believe that as well? And omfg lol @ 3 rogues. Thats some good misinformation there. Every single class in the game completes +10s every week without any issue at all, and that is an absolute fact.

In the grand scheme of things, a +10 at the moment is pretty much a 5 man dungeon in vanilla. Good luck pugging it with "meme specs" but get a group of friends and complete it with no issues im sure. And thats exactly why the top m+ runs look the way they do regarding comps.

[Toppy]

In the grand scheme of things, a +10 at the moment is pretty much a 5 man dungeon in vanilla. Good luck pugging it with "meme specs" but get a group of friends and complete it with no issues im sure. And thats exactly why the top m+ runs look the way they do regarding comps.

5 man dungeons in vanilla weren't hard, they were just long; that is the major reason you want to bring a working class. Bring a ret Paladinand the already long dungeon is going to be even longer. Stop getting all your information from streamers.

[Gavll]

Another troll post gets to 14 pages! xD

[Necromantic]

5 man dungeons in vanilla weren't hard, they were just long; that is the major reason you want to bring a working class. Bring a ret Paladin and and the already long dungeon is going to be even longer. Stop getting all your information from streamers.

Did some streamer actually say that? Its true that vanilla dungeons were longer but many liked that. I much prefer them to the "go go go!" dungeons we have now. They don't even feel like dungeons anymore. They feel like a race against the clock and with M+, that's exactly what they are. Nobody can take their time and enjoy the content anymore which is no wonder people are "burnt out" by it after a short period.

weren't hard, they were just long.

That's not what she sa... nvm

[Coldfrostzero]

Or get a real tank that can actually taunt and range pull.

As a former warrior tank in Vanilla, I can assure you that it doesn't fucking matter if you shoot a mob and pull it and then the mage immediately drops a Blizzard on them that procs Frostbite on all of them. Paladin tank at least has consistent AOE threat with Consecration. As a warrior, if Challenge Shout is on CD, you're fucked.

Please continue to talk out your ass though.

[iosdeveloper]

What's that priest do when you trinket the fear? He runs for his life or he dies, you use repentance, he trinkets, you stun, he's dead.

he trinkets, you stun, can't break the shield, you go away

[SirCowdog]

As a former warrior tank in Vanilla, I can assure you that it doesn't fucking matter if you shoot a mob and pull it and then the mage immediately drops a Blizzard on them that procs Frostbite on all of them. Paladin tank at least has consistent AOE threat with Consecration. As a warrior, if Challenge Shout is on CD, you're fucked.

Please continue to talk out your ass though.

I think what you're probably seeing is the same sort of mindless repetition of meta that exists in the live version of retail WoW. The logical fallacy is that " You either play what's optimal, or you fail utterly".

It's not that paladins can't tank, or even bears for that matter. It's simply that in ideal circumstances, warriors are the best single-target raid tanks. That's not really up for debate. It's just a factual statement.

But where the problem comes in is the assumption that all other tanks are useless in all other situations. They're not. As you just pointed out, paladins have reasonably consistent AOE threat. Are you going to use a paladin to tank raid bosses if you have a warrior available? Probably not. Does that mean a paladin CAN'T tank a raid boss? Doubtful.

It's actually one of the things I'm looking forward to seeing how it plays out. We have so much more infomation about how threat and other mechanics work. As a general rule, today's WoW players are also MUCH more skilled in relative terms. Even some LFR raids and heroics in retail wow have more complex encounters than many Vanilla raids. I think the combination of that and the greater access to information is going to allow for paladin and druids to get a LOT more done than back in 2004.

[Toppy]

Did some streamer actually say that? Its true that vanilla dungeons were longer but many liked that. I much prefer them to the "go go go!" dungeons we have now. They don't even feel like dungeons anymore. They feel like a race against the clock and with M+, that's exactly what they are. Nobody can take their time and enjoy the content anymore which is no wonder people are "burnt out" by it after a short period.



That's not what she sa... nvm

Streamers have HEAVILY pushed the whole "vanilla is so hardcore" bit. Which has led to some funny moments with them streaming classic and then trying real hard to make it look like they were having a hard time with things as to not get caught in the lie. Asmongold is especially guilty of this.

[teverin]

Ur probly better running 39 than a Ret because it means 1 less player to heal. Though you can just not heal the "filler" "shit" specs like my guild used to, I was under express orders that the 1 ret and 1 shadow priest that came to the odd raid as fill ins Were not to be buffed or healed because it was a waste of a mats and mana,

Sounds like you played a video game with some really cool people. -_-

[Unholyground]

With the right consumables and gear Ret are actually very viable, are they the best? No but they can do decent DPS if set up for it.

[Toppy]

I think what you're probably seeing is the same sort of mindless repetition of meta that exists in the live version of retail WoW. The logical fallacy is that " You either play what's optimal, or you fail utterly".

It's not that paladins can't tank, or even bears for that matter. It's simply that in ideal circumstances, warriors are the best single-target raid tanks. That's not really up for debate. It's just a factual statement.

But where the problem comes in is the assumption that all other tanks are useless in all other situations. They're not. As you just pointed out, paladins have reasonably consistent AOE threat. Are you going to use a paladin to tank raid bosses if you have a warrior available? Probably not. Does that mean a paladin CAN'T tank a raid boss? Doubtful.

It's actually one of the things I'm looking forward to seeing how it plays out. We have so much more infomation about how threat and other mechanics work. As a general rule, WoW players are also MUCH higher-skilled. Even some LFR raids in retail wow have more complex encounters than many Vanilla raids. I think that's going to allow for paladin and druids to get a LOT more done than back in 2004.

While they would be viable in 5 man content, not so much in raid content. Mostly because getting crit immune requires going through so many hoops that the other two tanks couldn't compete. A Paladin, unless out gearing the content, COULD NOT tank the raid boss. The only way they would do so is either getting enough spell power to hold threat but then being in danger of just randomly dying due to crits, or getting enough +defense gear to not be crit, but then everyone has to severely lower their DPS so as not to pull threat.

Bear Druids had it even worse to the point of nearly being none-viable in 5man content too. They take more damage than other tanks, miss far more, and in general cant keep up unless everyone purposefully holds themselves back.

And as always: No we dont have "Much more information about how threat and other mechanics work". Vanilla players weren't stupid no matter how much that narrative may be pushed. Maybe in the early dungeons when they were learning and stuff was still new. But past 40 people generally knew what they were doing.

- - - Updated - - -

With the right consumables and gear Ret are actually very viable, are they the best? No but they can do decent DPS if set up for it.

Another DPS with the right consumables and gear would be drastically outperforming a ret paladin with the same.

[Unholyground]

Another DPS with the right consumables and gear would be drastically outperforming a ret paladin with the same.

Not always since holy damage is true damage and no enemies or players in the game have resistance to it. That is one huge advantage they have, and when you raid DPS as Ret you use Seal of Righteousness not Command too since the damage can be insanely buffed by spell damage consumables and modifiers and is guaranteed each hit unlike Command. A lot of little tricks that help gain advantages especially where certain damage types can be and generally are resisted. Everything adds up.