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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    My point is that the Aszunan/Zin'ashari buildings are Highborne above all, and as such, closer to the Thalassian Aesthetic. The point (pipe dream) I was making is that the lodge image is perhaps one of the most simple buildings of that aesthetic, and that you could spin of a "Modern High Elf" aesthetic besides the Thalassian one.
    I get what you're saying, i'm saying that the highborne architecture is kaldorei architecture, it is not separate from non-highborne architecture. If you were to distinguish the architecture, you would base it along the lines of pre-sundering and long vigil, rather than kaldorei and highborne - because there is no kaldorei/highborne distinction in architecture.

    The long vigil was not a building or civilization stage for the night elves, it was military world guardianship task they did to protect the world, partly out of their responsibility for attracting the legion.. The buildings are rurual kaldorei buildings, and it was the same type of buidlings they had for rural areas before the sundering.

    And it is close to high elf architecture, in fact the high elves use the same rural buildings as the night elves - if you look at the Loch Modan Lodge, and the hinterlands lodge. Living in tree homes is very specific to rural druidic communities. Priests are either in camps with the sentinels or in temples.


    I'm saying that most of the Kaldorei Empire architecture obviously evolved into Modern Suramarian and Thalassian architectures. They have differences of course, but the main aesthetics are present.
    Again, there is no modern Suramarian architecture.. Suramar was the jewel of the night elf empire, and wasn't changed at all during the few thousand years the night elves transitioned to this more night elven state we call nightborne, it's architecture is slightly unique, just as Eldre'thalas' architecture is, because it is designed to be that way, but it is still kaldorei and unchanged as you saw in the cinematic. The nightborne didn't change anything in that resource-limited bubble, those sticklers for tradition, as arrogant as they were would likely tell you "you don't change perfection" - and they don't regard the city as less nightborne because it was built as night elves...these people don't really divorce their kaldorei heritage in the manner the Thalassian elves did. They think kaldorie is the epitomy of existence, their noble and unequalled refined and intelligent beings - listen to Valtrois talk about her kaldorei roots in the WQ at Tel'anor, listen to Occuleth marvel and remember fondly the prayers to Elune in Flanaar temple when you do the withered training, Look at all the moon symbols, saber cats, kaldorei fanged mouths, stars and moon obsession they have - this is not a group rejecting their kaldorei heritage, but a group that considers itself fully within its right to have its legacy and culture preserved - at least until we free Suramar - because Thalyssra declares they will no longer suffer the stagnation of the past - which is why she is choosing Liadrin, the blood elves and the horde, because they'd continue in the same Kaldorei traditions if they stayed in the alliance.

    So post 7.3.5 it might be a new identity emerging for the nightborne. However we don't know how that will turn out or look like. They could decide while they love the blood elves, the horde's ideals are not for them, or at least some of them decide them. Especially if we lose factions next expansion. if we don't they could still feel that way, or at least a good number of them and you have a divide - with some loving to embrace the blood elves nad the horde's ideals, while others never able to get over the slaughter of innocent kaldorie blood in Teldrassil showing in the horde, Burning Legion type mentality they fought against. This all however depends on blizzard and how far they wanna take it.


    Thalassian architecture is Thalassian architecture, it would realistically have evolved in time, with the new foucses and changes of the high elves and their rejection of the night, stars and moon fixation of night elf kind (this includes nightborne). I would imagine earlier it would have resembled more th ekaldorei structures but became it's own aesthetic. Yet there would always be some degree of similarity as these are all elves.

    Of Modern Kaldorei Aesthetics, ONLY the temple of the moon and surrounding called to the ancient Kaldorei asthetics; everything else the Kaldorei have built is on their new druidic style.
    Technically speaking the style isnt' new, i'ts just rural, and druids don't really build, most of them are in caves, it would be their families - I tend to label what you call modern kaldorei as druidic architecture for lack of a better term, as manipulating wood would be easier to achieve than hewing stone when arcane magic isn't present.

    The absence of arcnae magic practice during the long vigil and the night elves commitment to it is why you have night elves not rebuilding old stuff, but if you look at the upgraded art, you find out that the buildings in the druidic community are sometimes wooden versions of the marble ones you see lying around.

    But they're all kaldorei.

    What I am saying, is that with Darnassus gone (thus with no need to be re-made to modern fidelity) that I'd like to see the Night Elves fully commit their splendor to their pagoda like wooden architecture, using even less old style classical buildings, because again, the Temple of the moon on Darnassus was just simply a throwback (It shared an archytectural style with the 10k year old ruins; it had no reason for it besides nostalgia)

    Legion showed us how beautiful and polished the Modern Druidic style looks with modern graphics, what I want is the NE's in-universe to take that style into grandeur, truly moving away from the frankly highborne aesthetics.
    That would be narrative suicide, and I'd hate that. Darnassus shows you the nighte lves are not int he long vigil anymore, and for good reason. The period is very boring, nad if the current night elves never expanded beyond their long vigil identity, they'd be dead boring. This is why you have a city built in classic, and why you later have the kaldorei pre-sundering magic and cities also returning. This is how the night elves do civilization - put away for the long vigil, but returning afterwards.

    This is why Darnassus buildings and temple are very much like the buildings of Zin'Azshari, Suramar, Nar'thalas, Eldre'thalas - with variations if you account for upgraded at - in that it is that night elf architecture updated and expanded in Azsuna, Suramar, and the other places when the upgrade happens.

    The beautfy of the night elves it hat the forest elf element of the long vigil continues in the druidic communities and forests, when you look at Teldrassil, parts of Ashevnale, Val'sharah - these are forests you see the druid culture homes, the more rural settings of the kaldorei, but you also see cities and towns now, with Darnassus, then Suramar and ofc the images of Zin'Azshari, places like Tel'anor, Nar'thalas, Eldre'thalas

    that's how nighte lves do cities, it is different to high elves - just compare Suramar and Silvermoon, but it also has a similarity. Just like when you look at night elves and high elves - they look different but also have lots of similarities. Until TBc the high elf was the exact same model as the night elf just with different colour skin and ears vertically up. The nightborne uses the night elf model slimmed down - with darker purple and the tips of the ears curving upwards instead of tapering. Ofc the nightborne is closer to the ngiht elf, but you can see the high elf and the night elf are more similar than they are different.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post

    Oh, what about a legit inverted Silvermoon, built underneath Telogrus, like the Western Air Temple on ATLA?

    Oof, just imagine the bridges connecting the downward spires, with nothing underneath but the Void!

    - - - Updated - - -



    Except, of course, all the people who do.
    that would be interesting for the void elves, or you could have the void dimension of SIlvermoon, you can entre, where everything is recoloured differently with void purples and gold, and certain variations if possible.

    I would expect an architectural variation for the void elves on the normal Thalassian style that merges black empire or ethereal with thalassian for them. Blizzzard does like giving each sub-race an architecture of its own. Notice how Taunka architecture was slightly different from Mulgore Tauren, as was Highmountain.


    See how kaldorei Eldre'thalas and Kaldorei Suramar architecture are slightly different from the main pre-sundering style of the empire you see in Zin'Azshari and the other (model updated) ruins. This is because one holds the shen'dralar and ogres, and the other holds the nightborne. So while night elven, they are given a slightly different look to allow for their future occupants, even though they were built that way in the pre-sundering era. Which is fine, no one expects every city to have the same identical look anyway.
    Last edited by ravenmoon; 2019-08-15 at 11:39 AM.

  2. #62
    No High elves, No void elves allowed. They abandoned their people and are no longer a part of it, let them go find their own city
    If by "They abandoned their people" you mean "They were thrown into the Scourge-infested wilderness against their own will", sure, they abandoned their people.

    Jokes on you, Alleria shall build a new kingdom that will eclipse Quel'thalas at its apex.

    Last edited by Varodoc; 2019-08-15 at 11:42 AM.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  3. #63
    Bloodsail Admiral froschhure's Avatar
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    "What city would you like to see for homeless races"

    nearly got me..
    homeless people cant have a home, terms of homeless

    - - - Updated - - -

    but hey lets play your thread. Forsaken in ICC? FOr real? did you ever even play the expansion?

    - - - Updated - - -

    bolvar wont be amazed by undead population living their dream on free will.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Void Fallen View Post
    If by "They abandoned their people" you mean "They were thrown into the Scourge-infested wilderness against their own will", sure, they abandoned their people.
    indeed, horde fans just love seeing things their own twisted way. Failing to realise the story is often designed that way, one group takes things one way, the other another, you can judge who was right. Imo, the blood elves were wrong, Alleria protected the sunwell from the void attack, but rommath, full of mistrust, ceases the opportunity to blame the attack on her - she is about to explain it wasn't her, but they are rattled and scared and boot them out, banning them, doing exactly what the long vigil kaldorei did to them but for a far less powerful cause.

    The long vigil kaldorei banned arcane practice on pain of death because they believed its use would draw the demon invasion back resulting in the destruction of the world. So they were exiled, and altered by Cenarius/Druids I believe in a way to make them less capable or able to to connect to the arcanse source of the well (one account says that Cenarius and dthe drudis severed them, although they don't explain why, I presume the reason is to deny them or limit their ability to connect to the well and such use magic - because the long vigil night elves at this point (not the shen'dralar or Suramar ones) still don't know you can use the arcane from the atmosphere - which ofc the high elves develop on their exile, then are ablet o create the Sunwell they can connect to, alllowign them to wield arcane magic, and create the ban'dinoriel to hide the power signature of that from the twisting nether and quite likely as well as from the kaldorei (by deduction).

    this was a very good reason to exile the Darth'remar highborne group, however we see the blood elves, later banning the void elves for fear the sunwell might be tainted. Great guys right?. turns out most of those blood elves who became void elves never liked the horde anyway, but still wnana save their people. Both fromt he ruinous mentality of the horde.

    I would say they aren't traitors and they certainly didn't abandon their people. But rather truer to the original ideals of their race. THe high elves refusing to partake int he shift in mentality and ideology of the sin'dorei, are within their rights to do so, and refuse to accept these compromise - hteir people banishing and driving them away because of that is a betrayal of the high elves, not the other way around betrayal of everything their people stood for - and by putting away the high elves rather than work things out, they have created this divide.

    it's like one day the democrats gain power, and most of the U.S has the liberal progressive mentality, and they decide to drive out every conservative minded republican, whenever a conservative tries to cry out in a public space against it, persuading the others to turn back, instead they employ mind control technology that disrupts his ability to think and hyper suggest what he says instead. This is exactly what happened. It's the blood elves that were going all hard arsed on anyone who wasn't towing the line and refusing the new way. not the high elves,but the blood elf fan base just won't have it.

  5. #65
    Dreadlord Wolfrick's Avatar
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    Some thing I belive is that: We will get A world revamp where we will see the Forsaken/Night Elves/worgen... rebuild their once capitol cities (or give then new locations).


    My predictions

    1. The Forsaken: will move up to Northrend with the intent to rebuild their very own faction around undeath with sylvanas as their sole leader and queen (maybe have the Lich King as an Allie or an enemy, both ways could be very intereting in lore and gameplay) "Underground or overground... in Northrend there are huge areas under the surface of the continent.

    2. The Night elfs: Seeing that Darkshore and Teldrasill is in ruins... the night elfs would want to rebuild their once proud capitol city some place else...
    - Feralas has Dire Maul as a perfect location... since it once was a major and great city of the night elven empire.
    -They could use one of the Draenai islands to rebuild a new city, since those islands are night elven territories and just borrowed them to the dreanai. (These islands would also be pefect as an area to trick from to retake Darkshore and hit the horde hard!!!)

    3. The Worgen: after the huge disaster at lordareon Graymane understand that The alliance need to have new and strong bases in the south of the Eastern kingdomes... and what better place to start from then Gilneas it self (His home country)... with the Forsaken feeling to the East of the continent and to Kalimdor... Gilenas should be right for the taking.
    PS: that area has been "abbandon.. in game since Cataclysm... so sad to think about it... it could have so huge potential

    4. The High Elves: Should get a district inside of a Revamped Stormwind... it is so bad to just say that "The High elfs are blood elfs" so many High elfs that where not ok with joining the Horde... would have moved to other places.
    Even with the Void elfs... they are void based but they should have a simple High elf skinn to... since not every beeing that uses Void Choose to be compleetly body broken... like the dark elves (Just look at Valera, he is a void elf with High elf looks).
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  6. #66
    Mechagnome Thalassian Bob's Avatar
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    Putting the Forsaken in Theramore would be wonderful.

    As for those other undesirable - ship them off to Outland Shattrath.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Skywall is an elemental plane.
    Zin'aszhari is a underwater ruin.

    I mean wtf.
    Seriously, are you running out of thread ideas?
    Because the thread is nota bout what is the most realistic location for a city. it's a fantasy game, where making anything is possible.

    it's about which would you like for this races. I can see or understand the choices. I would just cause the night elves and nightborne to share Suramar, and the high/void /blood elves share silvermoon instead of build them new ones.


    BUt if they really must have htem separate, then build the night elves a pristine zin'Azsahrai - I would find that really cool, and give the High elves a version of Skywall on the ground, that would also be cool.

  8. #68
    indeed, horde fans just love seeing things their own twisted way. Failing to realise the story is often designed that way, one group takes things one way, the other another, you can judge who was right. Imo, the blood elves were wrong, Alleria protected the sunwell from the void attack, but rommath, full of mistrust, ceases the opportunity to blame the attack on her - she is about to explain it wasn't her, but they are rattled and scared and boot them out, banning them, doing exactly what the long vigil kaldorei did to them but for a far less powerful cause.
    They didn't even have to exile her from the kingdom, they just had to keep her away from the Sunwell's inner sanctum. Lor'themar has an iq of 10, probably. Also, it's not like Alleria could have just learned how to better control her powers as not to twist the Sunwell the further her training progressed, nah, that just wouldn't be possible. Better exile her for no real reason!

    4. The High Elves: Should get a district inside of a Revamped Stormwind... it is so bad to just say that "The High elfs are blood elfs" so many High elfs that where not ok with joining the Horde... would have moved to other places.
    Even with the Void elfs... they are void based but they should have a simple High elf skinn to... since not every beeing that uses Void Choose to be compleetly body broken... like the dark elves (Just look at Valera, he is a void elf with High elf looks).
    The playable Void Elves, including Magister Umbric, did not choose to have that form. They were meant to be turned into Ethereals but Alleria saved them by interrupting the ritual midway, at the cost of forcing them to live in that Void-twisted new form. Alleria herself (I assume you are talking about Alleria and not Valeera) became a Void Elf through different means; she absorbed the essence of the dying naaru L'ura in Mac'aree, and I assume that's why she is special compared to the other Void Elves.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2019-08-15 at 01:18 PM.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfrick View Post
    Some thing I belive is that: We will get A world revamp where we will see the Forsaken/Night Elves/worgen... rebuild their once capitol cities (or give then new locations).


    My predictions

    1. The Forsaken: will move up to Northrend with the intent to rebuild their very own faction around undeath with sylvanas as their sole leader and queen (maybe have the Lich King as an Allie or an enemy, both ways could be very intereting in lore and gameplay) "Underground or overground... in Northrend there are huge areas under the surface of the continent.

    2. The Night elfs: Seeing that Darkshore and Teldrasill is in ruins... the night elfs would want to rebuild their once proud capitol city some place else...
    - Feralas has Dire Maul as a perfect location... since it once was a major and great city of the night elven empire.
    -They could use one of the Draenai islands to rebuild a new city, since those islands are night elven territories and just borrowed them to the dreanai. (These islands would also be pefect as an area to trick from to retake Darkshore and hit the horde hard!!!)

    .
    Sounds plausible, especially the forsaken - but for the night elves, Suramar was their once proud capital & HQ of the Order of Elune, so was Zin'Azshari for all the night elves - I can see them either sharing Suramar or rebuilding either Eldre'thalas or Zin'Azshari - if Feralas is still an option for the night elves.


    To be honest, the Broken ilses are perfect, and I really feel that osme nightborne should come laong side the night elves and Suramar be their capital

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    I get what you're saying, i'm saying that the highborne architecture is kaldorei architecture, it is not separate from non-highborne architecture. If you were to distinguish the architecture, you would base it along the lines of pre-sundering and long vigil, rather than kaldorei and highborne - because there is no kaldorei/highborne distinction in architecture.
    Exactly, I'm just using the term "Highborne" to showcase how that archytectural style continued to evolve on Highborne groups (Thalassian, Suramarian*) as the "Long Vigil" style (which IMO is just modern kaldorei style) became the norm for Night Elves.

    The long vigil was not a building or civilization stage for the night elves, it was military world guardianship task they did to protect the world, partly out of their responsibility for attracting the legion.. The buildings are rurual kaldorei buildings, and it was the same type of buidlings they had for rural areas before the sundering.
    That does not preclude it from becoming their main aesthetic or the progenitor of a new one.

    And it is close to high elf architecture, in fact the high elves use the same rural buildings as the night elves - if you look at the Loch Modan Lodge, and the hinterlands lodge. Living in tree homes is very specific to rural druidic communities. Priests are either in camps with the sentinels or in temples.
    As the HE lodges are simply recolored NE buildings, I don't think we can make an deep analyses on that.


    Again, there is no modern Suramarian architecture.. Suramar was the jewel of the night elf empire, and wasn't changed at all during the few thousand years the night elves transitioned to this more night elven state we call nightborne, it's architecture is slightly unique, just as Eldre'thalas' architecture is, because it is designed to be that way, but it is still kaldorei and unchanged as you saw in the cinematic. The nightborne didn't change anything in that resource-limited bubble, those sticklers for tradition, as arrogant as they were would likely tell you "you don't change perfection" - and they don't regard the city as less nightborne because it was built as night elves...these people don't really divorce their kaldorei heritage in the manner the Thalassian elves did. They think kaldorie is the epitomy of existence, their noble and unequalled refined and intelligent beings - listen to Valtrois talk about her kaldorei roots in the WQ at Tel'anor, listen to Occuleth marvel and remember fondly the prayers to Elune in Flanaar temple when you do the withered training, Look at all the moon symbols, saber cats, kaldorei fanged mouths, stars and moon obsession they have - this is not a group rejecting their kaldorei heritage, but a group that considers itself fully within its right to have its legacy and culture preserved - at least until we free Suramar - because Thalyssra declares they will no longer suffer the stagnation of the past - which is why she is choosing Liadrin, the blood elves and the horde, because they'd continue in the same Kaldorei traditions if they stayed in the alliance.
    You know I'm not sure about this and I think the Suramar cinematic is misleading.

    -At the edges of the domes, you can see the 10k Kaldorei aesthetics (mostly the archs) almost cut by it, IMO the renovations are apparent.

    -We clearly see the clothes aesthetics evolving.

    I think there was just no way to show in the cinematic the city evolving, but it's obvious the NB aesthetics evolved and they are not in fact a time capsule. Suramar obviously evolved in the same way its people changed.

    That would be narrative suicide, and I'd hate that. Darnassus shows you the nighte lves are not int he long vigil anymore, and for good reason. The period is very boring, nad if the current night elves never expanded beyond their long vigil identity, they'd be dead boring. This is why you have a city built in classic, and why you later have the kaldorei pre-sundering magic and cities also returning. This is how the night elves do civilization - put away for the long vigil, but returning afterwards.

    This is why Darnassus buildings and temple are very much like the buildings of Zin'Azshari, Suramar, Nar'thalas, Eldre'thalas - with variations if you account for upgraded at - in that it is that night elf architecture updated and expanded in Azsuna, Suramar, and the other places when the upgrade happens.

    The beautfy of the night elves it hat the forest elf element of the long vigil continues in the druidic communities and forests, when you look at Teldrassil, parts of Ashevnale, Val'sharah - these are forests you see the druid culture homes, the more rural settings of the kaldorei, but you also see cities and towns now, with Darnassus, then Suramar and ofc the images of Zin'Azshari, places like Tel'anor, Nar'thalas, Eldre'thalas

    that's how nighte lves do cities, it is different to high elves - just compare Suramar and Silvermoon, but it also has a similarity. Just like when you look at night elves and high elves - they look different but also have lots of similarities. Until TBc the high elf was the exact same model as the night elf just with different colour skin and ears vertically up. The nightborne uses the night elf model slimmed down - with darker purple and the tips of the ears curving upwards instead of tapering. Ofc the nightborne is closer to the ngiht elf, but you can see the high elf and the night elf are more similar than they are different.
    I don't see how expanding the Druidic style would be bad, IMO trying to recapture a lost glory of a fallen empire would be bad. The Night Elves have spent millenia trying to move past their past as an empire, save for the temple of the moon on Darnassus everything is on their modern style. I'm just saying that they should take that style and "evolve it" ans Thalassians did with the kaldorei empire aesthetics.

    I think Night Elves have moved on and their don't need a throwback to aesthetics they moved past 10k years ago almost wholly. Again, Darnassus was mostly modern druidic, the temple was just 1/4 at best.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    Exactly, I'm just using the term "Highborne" to showcase how that archytectural style continued to evolve on Highborne groups (Thalassian, Suramarian*) as the "Long Vigil" style (which IMO is just modern kaldorei style) became the norm for Night Elves.
    So you mean pre-sundering and long vigil.

    Bear in mind though, "long vigil" is not the norm for night elves. It's more like what they had little choice but to have. No arcane magic, meant no buildings like before, Long vigil task gave no room for building families and civilization like before. When you've witnessed the Legion, and your unwitting hubris caused the one thing that is most against you're very core - I don't think you'd ever forget no rest easy until they are completely gone.


    The night elves were on vigil duty the whole time, so avoided anything but hteir task, this meant no cities, no family life, just duty, duty, duty. So they don't develop any architecture, the wooden homes you see were the same rural style used in forest lodges before the Sundering, and some of the wood homes in val'sharah are just wood versions of the marble ones.


    If any might be post-sundering new, I would guess the druidic homes in trees, thanks to the development of duridsm and the ability to bend wood without destroying it (thanks to the wisps), this allows them to do the mobile camps like you see in WC3 - I believe this is how the sentinels and hunting packs travelled around. Saying that I have no idea if the Ancients weren't doing that before the sundering, making nothing new for the long vigil, just only rural stuff of night elf style for rural abodes.


    Anyway the era is marked by its faithful and militant vigil - I wouldn't call the architectural style "the new night elf style" even the ones in trees have the same look as the pre-sundering rural lodges except just jutting out of trees.

    That does not preclude it from becoming their main aesthetic or the progenitor of a new one.
    Yes, you're right, it doesn't, and I would wager they did build a few abodes even, not many. Most of the druids slept in barrow dens, and the village of nighthaven was the capital run by the Priestesses.

    the main point is that it was the most logical thing to do. but it doesn't become their main aesthetic because they are actively choosing this, it is more a matter of they can't do more than that. Without the arcane to magically garner and fuse the stone, marble, metal and wood in conjunction with the druids, you really can't build your previous style - this is the one of the consequences of the arcane ban. if youw ere to do it the normal way, it would take ages, why bother doing that when nature magica can literally mould you a new home from living wood, and one that can sometimes get up and walk with you.

    They didn't have the arcane but they found other ways to do the thigns they needed. This doesn't mean however that the stuff form the arcane isn't preferred , better , more effective - they just can't access it as that's what this whole era is about.


    When it ends, the night elves go back to the pre-sundering style for their cities and temples. Darnassus is built before the arcane returns, it may not seem obvious, but after understanding properly what's gone on during the long vigil and why we have things like they are, and the reasons behind, you can expect night elf architecture of the presundering era to dominate the things they build.


    And i'm fine with that. It's quite beautiful, it is night elven (i.e. kaldorei/shal'dorei), I wouldn't go and change high elf architecture to be that - it's night elf racial stuff, especially when I already have a unique one for blood/high elves.

    As the HE lodges are simply recolored NE buildings, I don't think we can make an deep analyses on that.
    True, but they could have changed them but didn't, showing you the connection between the two is far closer than all the friction and aesthetics sometimes making htem seem like different species.


    You know I'm not sure about this and I think the Suramar cinematic is misleading.

    -At the edges of the domes, you can see the 10k Kaldorei aesthetics (mostly the archs) almost cut by it, IMO the renovations are apparent.

    -We clearly see the clothes aesthetics evolving.

    I think there was just no way to show in the cinematic the city evolving, but it's obvious the NB aesthetics evolved and they are not in fact a time capsule. Suramar obviously evolved in the same way its people changed.
    Well look at it a little closer.

    1. The clothes should evolve a little - not much but a little - the story goes that they ran out of resources, so started conjuring weapons, armor etc with magic, just like food.

    Low resources is also an indication that they wouldn't have changed anything on the city.
    They would also have no reason to change anything either. The nightborne didn't experience a change in philosophy or culture, they didn't become a new culture like the blood elves, they are night elves whose bodies just altered, continuing in night elf ways in a night elf city.
    Like night elves of the era, they are a bit vainglorious, love eveyrhting about themselves, and are a bit OTT. They describe their city as the jewel of the night elf empire - this is not a people that are going to change it.
    Look at the city - it's full of kaldorei statues, kaldorei crescent moons, only in very limited places do we see an actual nightborne statue - which is to be expected
    The society is rather stagnant, the lore tells us they preserved the culture pristinely over the millennia, this means that hardly any change to the kaldorei empire culture has occurred in Suramar. The nightborne are exactly how all night elves during the pre-sundering era were like culturally, especially in big cities.
    It's not a new race/culture look - like it was for the high elves, the nightborne are merely showing the high civilizaiton side of the night elves. It's not a new culture, or city - it's all kaldorei culture/city, and the nightborne are a kaldorei variation in their model. Their culture is the kaldorei empire culture, also the way of the highborne amongst the Darnassians (without the abuse and recklessness - they've been cured from that.)


    I think people find it hard to believe the ngiht elves have something as grand as Suramar, but they shouldn't if they had read the lore, it was exactly something with level of beauty and intricacy that I expected of the night elf empire if it was to fit the description in blizzard's lore. The nightborne are like the night elves in pretty much most ways that the blood elves are like the void elves - the same race, but with a minor physical change brought about by a magical source. But essentially the same people. the nightborne didn't stop being kaldorei, they just bcame nightborne, their version of kaldorei became shal'dorei, and it's not like the high elves. The high elves became something new in nearly every department - culture, city, location, skin colour, ears, eyes, everything. New start. And it was not hearkening back to the pre-sundering kaldorei - they wanted something newer, superior tha twould eclipse the kaldorei empire as a shinign light of the elves fixing what went wrong with them before the sundering. Hence why night elves are refered to as highborne, and Thalassians are instead high elves.


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    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post

    I don't see how expanding the Druidic style would be bad, IMO trying to recapture a lost glory of a fallen empire would be bad. The Night Elves have spent millenia trying to move past their past as an empire, save for the temple of the moon on Darnassus everything is on their modern style. I'm just saying that they should take that style and "evolve it" ans Thalassians did with the kaldorei empire aesthetics.

    I think Night Elves have moved on and their don't need a throwback to aesthetics they moved past 10k years ago almost wholly. Again, Darnassus was mostly modern druidic, the temple was just 1/4 at best.
    Trying to foce past glory would be bad, but I don't think building in your graceful manner is a bad thing. Past glory is only bad when the past was bad. I don't think being motivated purely to restore past glory is a good thing either, as pride dominates such efforts, and past glory usually means domination - not architectural style, although some people regard the restoration of the architecture as signifying past glory.

    I think many of the night elves that built their stuff, and their trees re still around, When they build again they would build with the same dedication, beauty and art that is their race.

    I don't see them building a great empire, that's the past, but I can see them building a city for themselves, and the buildings in the city would be marble and intricate like you see in Suramar and Zin'Azshari because that is there style. You won't see tree homes in the city, those would likely be in the forest that surrounds the city or maybe in the middle of it if youwa nt to be stylish.

    Forest homes are usually lived in by people who don't like cities and prefer surrounded by all of nature - which are usually druids in the case of night elves. However night elven cities were never all marble and glass, they had tons of gardens and green spaces - look at the gardens on some of the rooftops in zin'azshari warbringers, look at how many trees and space for that in Suramar compared to Silvermoon, or Dalaran or the developed section of Stormwind. Yes, arcane wielding night elves also loved nature, but during the last days of the empire, they were very much more obsessed with the arcane, and no one was paying attention to those nature practices any more, they were satisfied with what the arcane could produce.
    Last edited by ravenmoon; 2019-08-16 at 01:20 AM.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    So you mean pre-sundering and long vigil.

    Bear in mind though, "long vigil" is not the norm for night elves. It's more like what they had little choice but to have. No arcane magic, meant no buildings like before, Long vigil task gave no room for building families and civilization like before. When you've witnessed the Legion, and your unwitting hubris caused the one thing that is most against you're very core - I don't think you'd ever forget no rest easy until they are completely gone. (Snip)
    I'm saying there's no reason why the Night Elves would Wholly return to their Pre-Sundering architeture "Long Vigil" Style has become norm, I don't agree they are siply "waiting on the wings" This is their life-style now, not an arrested development. Villages like Lor'danel, funded after the Long Vigil, show that NE's use this style still, why wouldn't they? Is the route their aesthetics have followed for the last 10k years and has served them well.

    Darnassus, even in it's 2004 simplicity, showed how the wooden druidic Pagoda-like structures could be far more grandiose in a city than a town.

    Again, there is no reason to return to their Pre-Sundering aesthetics, and the only "Throwback" they built was the Temple of The Moon. Everything ELSE about their modern buildings suggest they have moved on.


    True, but they could have changed them but didn't, showing you the connection between the two is far closer than all the friction and aesthetics sometimes making htem seem like different species.
    Could be, or it also could be lazyness. Specially since the lodges are on the druidic style and why would the runaway Highborne build on it? It's inconsistent.



    Well look at it a little closer.

    1. The clothes should evolve a little - not much but a little - the story goes that they ran out of resources, so started conjuring weapons, armor etc with magic, just like food.

    Low resources is also an indication that they wouldn't have changed anything on the city.
    They would also have no reason to change anything either. The nightborne didn't experience a change in philosophy or culture, they didn't become a new culture like the blood elves, they are night elves whose bodies just altered, continuing in night elf ways in a night elf city.
    Like night elves of the era, they are a bit vainglorious, love eveyrhting about themselves, and are a bit OTT. They describe their city as the jewel of the night elf empire - this is not a people that are going to change it.
    Look at the city - it's full of kaldorei statues, kaldorei crescent moons, only in very limited places do we see an actual nightborne statue - which is to be expected
    The society is rather stagnant, the lore tells us they preserved the culture pristinely over the millennia, this means that hardly any change to the kaldorei empire culture has occurred in Suramar. The nightborne are exactly how all night elves during the pre-sundering era were like culturally, especially in big cities.
    It's not a new race/culture look - like it was for the high elves, the nightborne are merely showing the high civilizaiton side of the night elves. It's not a new culture, or city - it's all kaldorei culture/city, and the nightborne are a kaldorei variation in their model. Their culture is the kaldorei empire culture, also the way of the highborne amongst the Darnassians (without the abuse and recklessness - they've been cured from that.)
    Again I point out to how the arches on the entrances of Suramar don't match with the style of the rest of the city. It's fairly obvious. As obvious os how the Suramarian fashion is completely distinct of what they wore 10k years ago. I mean fashion and aesthetics were kinda the only things that Nightborne could push forward o their idleness.

    The aesthetics have clearly changed on those 10k years, "The nightborne are exactly how all night elves during the pre-sundering era were like culturally, especially in big cities" simply doesn't ring true when you can see the structures right outside the dome look like 10k old structures. Nigthborne Culture is an evolution of the Highborne culture, specially aesthetically so, and I feel that is evident.

    I think people find it hard to believe the ngiht elves have something as grand as Suramar, but they shouldn't if they had read the lore, it was exactly something with level of beauty and intricacy that I expected of the night elf empire if it was to fit the description in blizzard's lore. The nightborne are like the night elves in pretty much most ways that the blood elves are like the void elves - the same race, but with a minor physical change brought about by a magical source. But essentially the same people. the nightborne didn't stop being kaldorei, they just bcame nightborne, their version of kaldorei became shal'dorei, and it's not like the high elves. The high elves became something new in nearly every department - culture, city, location, skin colour, ears, eyes, everything. New start. And it was not hearkening back to the pre-sundering kaldorei - they wanted something newer, superior tha twould eclipse the kaldorei empire as a shinign light of the elves fixing what went wrong with them before the sundering. Hence why night elves are refered to as highborne, and Thalassians are instead high elves.
    Suramar isn't more grandiose than Zin'ashari, is simply different, it changed aesthetically on those 10k years.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post

    The aesthetics have clearly changed on those 10k years, "The nightborne are exactly how all night elves during the pre-sundering era were like culturally, especially in big cities" simply doesn't ring true when you can see the structures right outside the dome look like 10k old structures. Nigthborne Culture is an evolution of the Highborne culture, specially aesthetically so, and I feel that is evident.



    Suramar isn't more grandiose than Zin'ashari, is simply different, it changed aesthetically on those 10k years.
    Could be, it changed after, but the point of Suramar was it was supposed to be special. it is the jewel of the ngiht elf empire and it was the capital of the Order of Elune. The same lavish style is seen in the temple across the broken isles.

    I just think that they did something a little different in this city, same with Dire Maul, dire maul, aka eldre'thalas, also looks different from the other types.

    But realistically this is to be expected with a world empire. Look at the trolls, Zul'drak architecture is different from Zul'aman which is differnet from Zul'gurub, which is different form Zuldazar, yet they all have similarities and are troll.


    Suramar is just a more jewelled night elf city, Zin'azshari are sprawling master piece, Eldre'thalas a city university.

    It could be further new, but it is unlikely, the nightborne really are just thin altered night elves, their whole existence is about showing you the kaldorei empire side, night elves who continued in the arcane ways of the kaldorei empire unlike the long vigil, but like the Shen'drlaar.The developers tell you this themselves. They are showing you what a pristine night elven city looks like.


    This is Nar'thalas in pristine condition:





    The pristine stuff looks a lot better than the ruins do.. compare draenei ruins in outland versus the actual thing in WoD (bear in mind art asset update - the more recent one is a more accurate presentation.

  14. #74
    Titan Al Gorefiend's Avatar
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    Looks like Mace is satisfying his quota of creating new threads about elves and abandoning them immediately

  15. #75
    I want each capital city to be a sprawling zone.

    Zuldazar failed big time. So much empty space.

    Make us feel fucking small. Have quests that enable you to work your way closer to the King/Queen or Warchief, etc. you can’t get closer (bypass security points) until you earned the prestige to do so.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    No High elves, No void elves allowed. They abandoned their people and are no longer a part of it, let them go find their own city
    How ignorant you are. The Blood Elves kicked their blue eyed brethren for refusing the "gift" from Kael'thas. The BLOOD ELVES abandoned the High Elven kind.

  17. #77
    I'd love a big update that focused on the old continents and introduced scaled content that could be done in low level zones. Obviously included in an expansion such as that would be new cities.

    I always wanted Gilneas to be a city, mainly because it had a decent layout to be one, and the aesthetic of the zone was very unique.

    Assuming factions go away, I could see Night Elves living at the world tree, and High Elves moving back to Silvermoon. I doubt factions will go away anyway, but it would be REALLY beneficial to the storytelling if they just didn't exist anymore.

  18. #78
    Epic! Highelf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    This is indeed a dark elf city from Might and Magic. Even though void elves are pretty similar to them, I doubt they would need city like that as they are too little group so far. However, I hope they will build in this style in the future. It is very similar to their heritage armor and the stone has the same colour as Telogrus.

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    Dire Maul should be Ogre capital.
    I thought only one wing has ogres in it, and not that many anymore?
    “I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born.”
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  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Highelf View Post
    I thought only one wing has ogres in it, and not that many anymore?
    After Cataclysm(dungeoon wasn't revamped) ogres took over entire city.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  20. #80
    Epic! Highelf's Avatar
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    Not that I don't believe you but I have heard the opposite. Is there a source or something from RetConicle that backs that up?
    “I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born.”
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