Why Are We So Obsessed With Controlling Popular Franchises?

[Orby]

Did you see the Rocko special?

That's exactly why.

I haven't seen it, it;s on my list though, is it any good? I loved the original show. Was my favourite of the Nicktoons

[Powerogue]

I speculate and craft theories/alternate versions of storylines only when I'm actually invested in said stories. It may not always come off that way but it's flattery. If I didn't find a fictional universe fascinating I would just ignore the story. Characters and scenarios painted in such rich detail that they feel real in a sense. That means cheering on heroes and booing villains.



If we really tear into cinematics and scrutinize every detail it's a sign that there's a lot of detail to digest.

[Puzzlesocks]

Shows have fans... people like the shows.. when the writers take a shit all over the show suddenly and everything is just shit well... that upsets fans...

Fans are what make shows succeed so I find it just stupid for shows to attack fans like game of thrones has been doing. They fucking made you.

Fans did not make the show. Writers and actors and people doing their job made the fucking show. Here is the thing about people with lots of creative talent, they are going to do whatever it is they want to do whether "You write their check" or not. There is more to life than money, and people that share this idea that you are pushing are misguided beyond compare. It is an attitude like yours that makes life hell for so many of us, and is probably a contributor in why suicide and depression rates are spiking.

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"fans think their opinions matter"

Considering that quite literally FANS MAKE OR BREAK ANY FRANCHISE their options absolutely matter.

This is claiming the success of other peoples hard work. The "fans" did jack shit. You have no say in the creative process of other human beings, nor how they live their life. If you hate the ending so much, tough cookies, appreciate the dozens of hours of content that you did enjoy, and the dozens of hours you spent talking with friends excitedly about the show, or parties you went to or hosted because of the show.

The fans are what made GOT, fans of Got is what made asoif burst onto the mainstream. It may be popular by its own merits but the show is what truly catapulted it.

The show is based on those books but the shit everyone complains bout the show is when they ran out of books to adopt.

The writing and characterizations of the books were done well in ADOPTION however once they ran out of material to adopt, holy fucking shit did it go downhill.

The epitome of arrogance is saying "we don't need fans, fans didn't make us we made us!" because it is utter bullshit.

Where the fuck do you think got would have been without fans? Without fans speaking and hyping the show?

The thing that everyone notes about the last season is that the acting was great, the sets were amazing, the camera work was awesome, but that the writing was shit.

This is all just personal opinion that you happen to share with other people. It doesn't change the reality of the show, and you need to learn to live with disappointment. If you didn't like what was created, good for you, don't buy their merch if throwing a fit is your thing. If you enjoyed the copious amount of content previously given, maybe you shouldn't throw it all in the trash because the ending didn't meet your high standards. How much did you pay to view GoT anyway? How much does that amount to split among all the people that put in countless hours creating the show? Pennies at most. Even as a patron you are practically worthless in the scheme of things.

Fans make or break a fucking show, do you think musicians who are super big would be big without fans? Do you fucking think Liszt would have been a star in his day if not for fans?

If these people are becoming actors or singers or musicians because they just want money and fame, they don't deserve support and generally don't get it. Notice how all the most popular and big name musicians and actors are doing it because they love what they do. Your support helps them continue doing what they love, but most of these people did it for years while working construction or fast food and acting on the side. They do it because they love what they do, and you are not entitled to their fame, their hard work and dedication got them there.

Fans are rightly upset about GOT

They can be upset all they want, it's a free country. It doesn't mean that it is an adult reaction, or that they should have the slightest bit of say so in how other people conduct their lives and business. When you (or a group of fans) completely fund a project and supply all creativity for it, then you can have a say in how things go. As it is, this is life, and life is full of the flip-flop-ability of things. Fighting against that will leave you with nothing but useless anger that accomplishes nothing.

[breadisfunny]

maybe it's because without people watching those shows/movies they wouldn't get funded in the first place. also some screenwriters seem to be extremely arrogant and think they can do a better job than other writers who are better than them. see how they botched the scene in harry potter and the deathly hallows part two in the movie where they basically ignore the whole backstory of dumbledore because the screenwriter thinks it's pointless.

[Kumorii]

Fans are what make shows succeed so I find it just stupid for shows to attack fans like game of thrones has been doing. They fucking made you.

Find that thinking a bit backwards... It's not like people are following and watching shows to make it succeed. They watch it because they enjoy it. The creators of the show made something people enjoy, if something fans owe the creators. Which is why we find it to be worth it to pay for whatever content.
People who demand and act irrationally because they like something are in the wrong, in the end it's the creators story and what not and no one has any say in what they produce. Only if they find it worth it or not.

I find it safe to say that plenty of stuff, mostly games, gets turned into shit just because creators are pressured into making something that every rabid fan likes or they get shit on and thus fail on making a game they like themselves. Might not be as popular, but often is a more cohesive game.

[Sunseeker]

I haven't seen it, it;s on my list though, is it any good? I loved the original show. Was my favourite of the Nicktoons

It's a meta commentary on itsself and popular demands for reboots, corporations providing cheap, soulless cash grabs, fans getting exactly what they want but never being satisfied and the general demand for "more" and "new" but not being willing to accept any change or creativity.

[Zuben]

I'm no expert, but I'd wager it has to do with either not having real problems of your own or that there is little substance to your life other than the entertainment you consume. I found the final season of GoT disappointing and had a critical discussion about it with people, but then moved on to engage in other things in my life. GoT had a good run and fell flat in the end, that's that. Had it landed well I still would've moved on. All in all I think being obsessive about a franchise isn't so much a problem in itself but a symptom of greater personal issues. My two cents.

[Themius]

Fans did not make the show. Writers and actors and people doing their job made the fucking show. Here is the thing about people with lots of creative talent, they are going to do whatever it is they want to do whether "You write their check" or not. There is more to life than money, and people that share this idea that you are pushing are misguided beyond compare. It is an attitude like yours that makes life hell for so many of us, and is probably a contributor in why suicide and depression rates are spiking.

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This is claiming the success of other peoples hard work. The "fans" did jack shit. You have no say in the creative process of other human beings, nor how they live their life. If you hate the ending so much, tough cookies, appreciate the dozens of hours of content that you did enjoy, and the dozens of hours you spent talking with friends excitedly about the show, or parties you went to or hosted because of the show.


This is all just personal opinion that you happen to share with other people. It doesn't change the reality of the show, and you need to learn to live with disappointment. If you didn't like what was created, good for you, don't buy their merch if throwing a fit is your thing. If you enjoyed the copious amount of content previously given, maybe you shouldn't throw it all in the trash because the ending didn't meet your high standards. How much did you pay to view GoT anyway? How much does that amount to split among all the people that put in countless hours creating the show? Pennies at most. Even as a patron you are practically worthless in the scheme of things.


If these people are becoming actors or singers or musicians because they just want money and fame, they don't deserve support and generally don't get it. Notice how all the most popular and big name musicians and actors are doing it because they love what they do. Your support helps them continue doing what they love, but most of these people did it for years while working construction or fast food and acting on the side. They do it because they love what they do, and you are not entitled to their fame, their hard work and dedication got them there.

They can be upset all they want, it's a free country. It doesn't mean that it is an adult reaction, or that they should have the slightest bit of say so in how other people conduct their lives and business. When you (or a group of fans) completely fund a project and supply all creativity for it, then you can have a say in how things go. As it is, this is life, and life is full of the flip-flop-ability of things. Fighting against that will leave you with nothing but useless anger that accomplishes nothing.

Here the word "make/made" references to making it popular. Have you ever delved even superficially into marketing? You'll find that to make any product succeed to you actually need people who like it and then can spread it you need early adopters to get the ball rolling. Do you think things just happen by themselves? Now they need fans they need a base and they use that base to make more money via spreading of non-paid advertisement which is the holy grail. You can have an amazing work but without fans you are fucking dead in the water. So please save me the bs there.

Where does this idea come from that fans don't have the right to critique a show? Who else would better know and realize the fast changes in a show like got but the people there from the beginning. In the end this hurts GOT because it greatly damages rewatchability. There is a consensus among not just fans, but writers that the way that it was ended felt rushed. It did not feel true to itself and GRRM noted that they wanted to go have a life and work on something else but that there was enough material for more seasons and they cut a lot out. Once they ran out of books to adopt everything was a mad dash for the end. So don't fucking sit there and say "well you can't critique that who are you you didn't work on it!" like does that fucking matter?

Calling fans worthless int eh scheme of things is retarded... like seriously it is. I enjoyed the show until they completely changed their writing style cut seasons in half, and rushed to the end HBO offered more seasons but they just wanted to be done. I mean there are basic things about writing, and film, and screenwriting that any lay person and say "well that was off" several plot lines were entirely forgotten about or abandoned because of the rush characterization of main characters was entirely off compared to them from both the book and previous seasons that were true to the books air.

Your entire bullshit argument boils down to "if you don't like something fuck you, you're nobody but a fan, you are nothing you are no-one to criticize the work of the amazing artist!"

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Find that thinking a bit backwards... It's not like people are following and watching shows to make it succeed. They watch it because they enjoy it. The creators of the show made something people enjoy, if something fans owe the creators. Which is why we find it to be worth it to pay for whatever content.
People who demand and act irrationally because they like something are in the wrong, in the end it's the creators story and what not and no one has any say in what they produce. Only if they find it worth it or not.

I find it safe to say that plenty of stuff, mostly games, gets turned into shit just because creators are pressured into making something that every rabid fan likes or they get shit on and thus fail on making a game they like themselves. Might not be as popular, but often is a more cohesive game.

What is this "irrational act" saying "this season was pretty shit and unlike any others because it was half the length, rushed, with tons of cut out material, and the characters acted unlike they ever have before. Also since you cut the seasons you didn't have enough time for proper character arcs so certain actions seem to come out of left field." is that irrational?

[Kumorii]

What is this "irrational act" saying "this season was pretty shit and unlike any others because it was half the length, rushed, with tons of cut out material, and the characters acted unlike they ever have before. Also since you cut the seasons you didn't have enough time for proper character arcs so certain actions seem to come out of left field." is that irrational?

I reply as with OPs title and thread in mind.
It's not irrational to say something is bad... it's irrational to demand that they should do what you want because you don't like it. Which have to do with your comment that "they owe fans" like some sort of way that they should listen to fans demands.

I find it quite disingenuous of you to remove "demand" from the "demand and act irrationally" from your reply, since the fact that they demand this and that is the irrational bit. Not that they dislike it, nor did I imply it was irrational to dislike something or voicing said opinion.

Controlling someone elses creation is the irrational bit.

[Themius]

I reply as with OPs title and thread in mind.
It's not irrational to say something is bad... it's irrational to demand that they should do what you want because you don't like it. Which have to do with your comment that "they owe fans" like some sort of way that they should listen to fans demands.

I find it quite disingenuous of you to remove "demand" from the "demand and act irrationally" from your reply, since the fact that they demand this and that is the irrational bit. Not that they dislike it, nor did I imply it was irrational to dislike something or voicing said opinion.

Controlling someone elses creation is the irrational bit.

My comment literally never said they owe fans anything, but to pretend fans do not make or break a series, is asinine. Every marketing department is trying to actively make fans and early adopters so they can spread the word in non-paid advertising. Every marketing department puts importance on that yet for some reason people treat fans like they're entitled people.

I've seen many more fans say "this is bs they should have done x" not actively trying to control... so this thread is based on a unicorn.

[Kumorii]

My comment literally never said they owe fans anything, but to pretend fans do not make or break a series, is asinine. Every marketing department is trying to actively make fans and early adopters so they can spread the word in non-paid advertising. Every marketing department puts importance on that yet for some reason people treat fans like they're entitled people.

I've seen many more fans say "this is bs they should have done x" not actively trying to control... so this thread is based on a unicorn.

Sure, I see plenty of people doing death threats in their demands and hosiile attitude... Which is what demanding is. So to me this thread has merit because plenty of people do try and control.

[Puzzlesocks]

Here the word "make/made" references to making it popular. Have you ever delved even superficially into marketing? You'll find that to make any product succeed to you actually need people who like it and then can spread it you need early adopters to get the ball rolling. Do you think things just happen by themselves? Now they need fans they need a base and they use that base to make more money via spreading of non-paid advertisement which is the holy grail. You can have an amazing work but without fans you are fucking dead in the water. So please save me the bs there.

I understand marketing very well. When you want a movie or show done, you provide a script to patrons (or pay for it yourself) and they take the risk that it will pay off and spend even more money on advertising campaigns to draw interest. You can make something successful (money wise) merely by cloak and dagger methods, just look at the live action disney remake phenomenon. What actually made it successful in my opinion is the blood, sweat, and tears of the actors and crew that put their very soul into creating the thing in the first place.

The customer is not always right. You are spending your money at the establishment because you made the choice to do so, because you enjoy something it gives you. This applies to every buyer-seller interaction ever. You lost a bet you made only with yourself, don't throw a tantrum.

Where does this idea come from that fans don't have the right to critique a show? Who else would better know and realize the fast changes in a show like got but the people there from the beginning. In the end this hurts GOT because it greatly damages rewatchability. There is a consensus among not just fans, but writers that the way that it was ended felt rushed. It did not feel true to itself and GRRM noted that they wanted to go have a life and work on something else but that there was enough material for more seasons and they cut a lot out. Once they ran out of books to adopt everything was a mad dash for the end. So don't fucking sit there and say "well you can't critique that who are you you didn't work on it!" like does that fucking matter?

You have every right to critique it. You have no right at all to DEMAND that something be done a certain way. What if fans on episode one of GoT demanded that Bran not get injured because he is just a small child and we can't display violence against children? Every single artist of every kind has works of art and flops. Van Gogh did not paint nothing but masterpieces, Bach did not create only the best compositions. You are demanding constant perfection of others, and that is an idiotic demand. Part of the joy of life is having works of shit to compare to works of art. Part of growing as humanity is making mistakes so the next thing can be done better.

Your entire bullshit argument boils down to "if you don't like something fuck you, you're nobody but a fan, you are nothing you are no-one to criticize the work of the amazing artist!"

Not at all, my argument is that you are entirely too invested and entitled into something that was already created by untold thousands of man hours purely for your entertainment purposes. Take some perspective into this and quit acting like royalty. My perspective is that the people who made GoT worked their asses off on it. I paid for and watched season 8 after patiently waiting like everyone else. I hosted dinner parties for each of the 6 ending episodes and discussed them with friends like many other people. Even if the season didn't meet my standards on story line, the action and animation was incredible, and I was still glued to the screen for every second. Regardless of anything else, to try and pretend that season 8 of GoT didn't bring joy into my life and fulfill its purpose of entertainment would be a folly of incredible magnitude. I got EXACTLY what a paid for.

[Themius]

Sure, I see plenty of people doing death threats in their demands and hosiile attitude... Which is what demanding is. So to me this thread has merit because plenty of people do try and control.

How many people are giving death threats? It is nowhere near even being a statistical relevant portion of just about any fandom

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I understand marketing very well. When you want a movie or show done, you provide a script to patrons (or pay for it yourself) and they take the risk that it will pay off and spend even more money on advertising campaigns to draw interest. You can make something successful (money wise) merely by cloak and dagger methods, just look at the live action disney remake phenomenon. What actually made it successful in my opinion is the blood, sweat, and tears of the actors and crew that put their very soul into creating the thing in the first place.

The customer is not always right. You are spending your money at the establishment because you made the choice to do so, because you enjoy something it gives you. This applies to every buyer-seller interaction ever. You lost a bet you made only with yourself, don't throw a tantrum.


You have every right to critique it. You have no right at all to DEMAND that something be done a certain way. What if fans on episode one of GoT demanded that Bran not get injured because he is just a small child and we can't display violence against children? Every single artist of every kind has works of art and flops. Van Gogh did not paint nothing but masterpieces, Bach did not create only the best compositions. You are demanding constant perfection of others, and that is an idiotic demand. Part of the joy of life is having works of shit to compare to works of art. Part of growing as humanity is making mistakes so the next thing can be done better.


Not at all, my argument is that you are entirely too invested and entitled into something that was already created by untold thousands of man hours purely for your entertainment purposes. Take some perspective into this and quit acting like royalty. My perspective is that the people who made GoT worked their asses off on it. I paid for and watched season 8 after patiently waiting like everyone else. I hosted dinner parties for each of the 6 ending episodes and discussed them with friends like many other people. Even if the season didn't meet my standards on story line, the action and animation was incredible, and I was still glued to the screen for every second. Regardless of anything else, to try and pretend that season 8 of GoT didn't bring joy into my life and fulfill its purpose of entertainment would be a folly of incredible magnitude. I got EXACTLY what a paid for.

No one complained about the acting, set design, or the cinematography of the show. Most noted how everything about the show was amazing but the writing, many noted that they felt bad for everyone else because of how the writing diminished their hard work. Many reviews went out of their way to just critique the writing decisions.

No right to demand HBO do something? Where the fuck do you get that from like honestly? This is like saying shareholders have no right to demand changes within a company.

HBO is a business they work based on subscriptions which they need to survive. Since this hurts rewatch ability this means there like will be less people subscribing just to watch the season after the season 8 debacle which is a rather major problem for the station. HBO is in the business of just pleasing their viewers so they can get subscriptions and people who pay for a service certainly do have a right to demand or petition whatever they want of that service.

I don't understand the idea that a consumer who pays for a service should always be passive and accept mediocrity. There was a strong reaction to GOTS lackluster end because it is a greatly loved series with tons of fans and it was an amazing show that tapered off, and even more people were upset when it was found out they were offered many more seasons, unlimited money, and D&D basically were like "nah we wanna go to Star Wars we can finish this in half the time!" That was a slap in the face to every fan of GOT and the fucking station it was on.

[Kumorii]

How many people are giving death threats? It is nowhere near even being a statistical relevant portion of just about any fandom

Doesn't have to be only death threats... Hell we have boycotts when it comes to both movies and games. I think you've noticed all the drama movies have gotten lately. That's from people demanding to have things their way.

[Puzzlesocks]

No right to demand HBO do something? Where the fuck do you get that from like honestly? This is like saying shareholders have no right to demand changes within a company.

Are you a shareholder? Does your well being depend on the success of the company?

HBO is a business they work based on subscriptions which they need to survive. Since this hurts rewatch ability this means there like will be less people subscribing just to watch the season after the season 8 debacle which is a rather major problem for the station. HBO is in the business of just pleasing their viewers so they can get subscriptions and people who pay for a service certainly do have a right to demand or petition whatever they want of that service.

The viewers have no right to demand things of a service. The viewers can choose to watch or not to watch, they can vote with their dollar, but they CAN NOT dictate what the business does. It is none of your business to worry about the choices another company/person makes. If they want to crash and burn, that is on them. But no one has to live by your rules or give a single flying fuck about your opinion. That's called life.

[Themius]

Are you a shareholder? Does your well being depend on the success of the company?


The viewers have no right to demand things of a service. The viewers can choose to watch or not to watch, they can vote with their dollar, but they CAN NOT dictate what the business does. It is none of your business to worry about the choices another company/person makes. If they want to crash and burn, that is on them. But no one has to live by your rules or give a single flying fuck about your opinion. That's called life.

The viewers do have a right because firstly two things are in play, the first amendment so they certainly have a right to voice their concerns or demands, and secondly they're paying for a service and what dictates what the service does is how pleased their base is, so if the baes has a problem they should let it be known what can be done to fix it. "They have no right" where the fuck do you get that from?

CUSTOMER FEEDBACK is crucial to business success since you mention you know something about marketing one would think you'd have a fucking clue about it. Without customer feedback which includes demands and suggestions a business can find themselves losing subscribers without being able to tackle down the reason why.

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Doesn't have to be only death threats... Hell we have boycotts when it comes to both movies and games. I think you've noticed all the drama movies have gotten lately. That's from people demanding to have things their way.

The only major movie drama I've seen is surrounded around Star Wars, which is a writing issue.

[luc54]

Doesn't have to be only death threats... Hell we have boycotts when it comes to both movies and games. I think you've noticed all the drama movies have gotten lately. That's from people demanding to have things their way.

I don't understand what's wrong with boycotting things. It's a perfectly reasonable response to things you don't like. The whole calling fans unhappy with how their series goes "entitled" is dumb.

[Themius]

I don't understand what's wrong with boycotting things. It's a perfectly reasonable response to things you don't like. The whole calling fans unhappy with how their series goes "entitled" is dumb.

We are to be consuming sheep with no opinions.

[Kumorii]

I don't understand what's wrong with boycotting things. It's a perfectly reasonable response to things you don't like. The whole calling fans unhappy with how their series goes "entitled" is dumb.

nope, it's perfectly fine...what I am saying is that they are often used as a "we boycott unless you do X" which is obviously means to control something.

[luc54]

The viewers do have a right because firstly two things are in play, the first amendment so they certainly have a right to voice their concerns or demands, and secondly they're paying for a service and what dictates what the service does is how pleased their base is, so if the baes has a problem they should let it be known what can be done to fix it. "They have no right" where the fuck do you get that from?

CUSTOMER FEEDBACK is crucial to business success since you mention you know something about marketing one would think you'd have a fucking clue about it. Without customer feedback which includes demands and suggestions a business can find themselves losing subscribers without being able to tackle down the reason why.

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The only major movie drama I've seen is surrounded around Star Wars, which is a writing issue.

Yeah this. Businesses dont need to and shouldnt cater to all requests of customers if they are unreasonable. Having good writing isnt unreasonable demand. Now the studios can still choose to ignore it, but they are going to lose money if they upset their fans.