I have nobody else to say this to, but I want to say it anyways: WoW is still good...

[LorDC]

You really gotta give credit to Ion for being capable of turning such a outstanding franchise to a steam pile of ****

So, Ion took helm around the time Legion development started. Result: one of the best expansions ever. Yeah, definitely Ion's fault for ruining everything.

[Wangming]

So, Ion took helm around the time Legion development started. Result: one of the best expansions ever. Yeah, definitely Ion's fault for ruining everything.

People need a scapegoat. Somebody to put the blame on. Ion is visible, so he is an easy target. Fun thing about WoW being ruined is, people can't seem to agree when it happened.

1. WoD ruined it.
2. BfA ruined it
3. MoP ruined it.
4. Cata ruined it.
5. WotLK ruined it.
6. TBC ruined it.
7. It alternates between amazing and trash expansions
8. iT iS sTiLl dA bEsTeSt mMo EvA


Take your pick

[Reinaerd]

I considered vanilla up to even Wotlk and segments of Cata to be superior to what we've gotten after that.
It used to be one big playerbase, then came the automation through LFG.. this eroded the social aspect.
After that 10 vs 25, normal-heroic, the way normal dungeon vs heroic dungeon was implemented in TBC was spot on.
But i never liked the Normal / Heroic implementation in raids, because it segmented the player base.
And i'm not a fan of the LFR / Normal / Heroic / Mythic gear treadmill either.
This game is a time investment, when groups of people are doing particular content, it influences your guild as a whole.
I'm a former mythic raider, burned out on the game, and the death of my guild has made me take the social path.

In the TBC days, having an instance on farm, mid life cycle or even near the end of it, allowed players to unwind, do some "fun" stuff.
Now it's a continuous BIS / Socket / Lolforge chase.

I do not think that's healthy, you see far more guilds crumbling, and allot more people burning out on this game.


Some of it might be seen through nostalgia glasses.

But i think going back to a system more akin to TBC/Wotlk would be good for the game.


Just my 2 cents.

[lockybalboa]

So, Ion took helm around the time Legion development started. Result: one of the best expansions ever. Yeah, definitely Ion's fault for ruining everything.

How was Legion one of the best expansion ever? Wotlk, TBC and even Mop was way better. Ion started coming into the picture in WoD. You don't need reminding how bad was WoD yeh? And what about BfA now?

- - - Updated - - -

People need a scapegoat. Somebody to put the blame on. Ion is visible, so he is an easy target. Fun thing about WoW being ruined is, people can't seem to agree when it happened.

1. WoD ruined it.
2. BfA ruined it
3. MoP ruined it.
4. Cata ruined it.
5. WotLK ruined it.
6. TBC ruined it.
7. It alternates between amazing and trash expansions
8. iT iS sTiLl dA bEsTeSt mMo EvA


Take your pick

Are you serious comparing TBC, Wotlk and MoP to Bfa and WoD?

[Somewhatconcerned]

People have no idea what they want and whine about, 90% of the time they contradict themselves (especially the Classic fanboys). That's not to say BfA is good, it really isn't, but it's still the best MMORPG on the market at the moment - believe me, I've played ALL others.

Let's hope we get a good 9.0.

BINGO.

The problem is the toxic, schizophrenic community that doesn't know what they want. 90% of the time the stuff they hate on for BFA they try to turn it around and praise Classic for.

Can't wait until all these rose colored glasses come off.

[Wangming]

Are you serious comparing TBC, Wotlk and MoP to Bfa and WoD?

I'm not comparing anything. I'm just listing the different opinions I saw on this very board.

- - - Updated - - -

That's not to say BfA is good, it really isn't, but it's still the best MMORPG on the market at the moment - believe me, I've played ALL others.

No I don't believe you. Or if you are telling the truth you probably base your opinion on some very narrow aspect of the games.

[Kolvarg]

A company cant make everyone happy and I dont think that should be their focus because making a group of people happy can be at the cost at upsetting others.

Thing is that IS what they try to do. They try to make the game appeal to the widest audience possible, and end up not satisfying completely either group. WoW is simply a game that conflicts with itself, by trying to provide instant rewards in quick and small play sessions, while at the same time relying on a business model that benefits the most from long term engagement.

I do agree, WoW is still a good game, just a different one from what it used to be. Part of it is just natural evolution of a game over more than a decade, part of it is a genuine change in design direction.

But still the fact is that even as the Action RPG with multiplayer features that WoW essentially became, BfA really isn't great, and it pales in comparison to Legion. Still decent, but definitely worse off than the last iteration.

[matrix123mko]

I think it is still very good. BfA has just a bad story but this is an effect of focusing on faction war. I think it will improve next expansion.

[LorDC]

How was Legion one of the best expansion ever? Wotlk, TBC and even Mop was way better. Ion started coming into the picture in WoD. You don't need reminding how bad was WoD yeh? And what about BfA now?

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Are you serious comparing TBC, Wotlk and MoP to Bfa and WoD?

1) You may not think that way, but it is general consensus that Legion is up there with WotLK and BC. It shows and every survey or review out there in the Internet. Look at the Metacritic for example
2) I've been around since vanilla and it literally always "<most recent expansion name> ruined it".

[justandulas]

I'm of the mind that i think it is at the lowest point it's ever been at. BFA makes me long for the days of WoD and i should never say that sentence. I'm team classic all the way. I prefer my MMORPG to be more EQ than Diablo 3 (retail).

That said, i will never knock the players who enjoy BFA and i'm happy for the OP and others and wish them nothing but the best adventures, and good health.

Plenty of wow for us all, even if we prefer a different WoW than retail or if you do prefer retail over the old days. Nothing wrong with preferring one version over another.

[potis]

Make that literally the entire expansion and you have M+ and how it fucked up gearing.

M+ is just a new mechanic of a period where gear is irrelevant and its on purpose so returning players can catch up faster than later, people cant seem to understand that the game has shifted to a different type of gear chasing.

Gear chasing now is like 3 mini-expansions come out per expansion, compared to before where the starting content are completely fucking irrelevant.

It means when i am gonna level my alt, i aint gonna start 150 item levels behind, i am just starting 70 item levels behind, only to end up 30-40 item levels behind after the entrance content that were scaled up.

I was talking about the glorified periods where people seem to prefer and i hated, of having to run daily HC or generally massively irrelevant content for some currency.

[kenn9530]

it's still the best mmo for sure, but when you have expansions that hold 10+ million players for a decent amount of time and compared that to today where it's around 25% of that... something clearly went wrong with the game model. they are tailoring the game to the wrong people and doing it in the wrong way, it feels very boring and unfulfilling to play for extended periods of time and the best thing about mmo's imo is the feeling of fulfillment from earning something through playing for an extended period of time. class design is also really bad atm so the way we interface with the game through our characters needs to be reworked which they've already admitted, and core game mechanics which made the game more engaging and difficult, as well as rewarding, such as snapshotting have gone out the window and been replaced with pure rng from procs to determine how good someone is doing.

so like i said, it's still the best mmo, but it has a LONG way to go if it ever wants to return to its former glory and i don't think the current team is good enough at their job to know which changes would be best to grow the community. it's unfortunate for sure, but fortunately they seem to be going down the road of old expansions, so those of us who don't enjoy the current model will get to play a better mmo soon enough.

The reason people stop playing is because the game doesnt really change that much, its still the same as any other expansion and after a few years thats boring, the game is tailored to the largest part of the playerbase, many people have been playing for 10 plus years at some point the game is not going to be exciting to play anymore no matter what expansion it is.

WoW is just getting old and nothing is really going to ignite that spark to get many players back.

[justandulas]

I think it is still very good. BfA has just a bad story but this is an effect of focusing on faction war. I think it will improve next expansion.

faction war story COULD have been the best yet, but they lacked the testicular fortitude to truly embrace one side being the villain, and having winners/losers.

Imagine a war expac where the horde EMBRACE evil, and actually WIN?

the reason the story falls so flat is because, past the opening quest, there's little to 0 consequence to any of it.

There's no siege of SW, there's no burning of orgrimmar, there's no execution of thrall/saurfang by the alliance in blind retaliation for the world tree... etc. They should have treated it like a world war where each of the factions are breaking apart at the seems and atrocities that are unforgiveable (such as executing fan favorites, and actually having real loss) and one where there's no turning back....

but christie golden is an awful writer and doesn't comprehend anything but peace, love, and stories intended for 5 year old disney girls

- - - Updated - - -

The reason people stop playing is because the game doesnt really change that much, its still the same as any other expansion and after a few years thats boring, the game is tailored to the largest part of the playerbase, many people have been playing for 10 plus years at some point the game is not going to be exciting to play anymore no matter what expansion it is.

WoW is just getting old and nothing is really going to ignite that spark to get many players back.

WoW of today is a COMPLETELY different game than wow of vanilla-wotlk.

They aren't even truly the same game genre.

Older wow is a traditional MMORPG, retail wow is an MMO ARPG inspired by D3. One is more EQ, and the other more D3 the mmo.

not comparable at all

[kenn9530]

WoW of today is a COMPLETELY different game than wow of vanilla-wotlk.

They aren't even truly the same game genre.

Older wow is a traditional MMORPG, retail wow is an MMO ARPG inspired by D3. One is more EQ, and the other more D3 the mmo.

not comparable at all

you can keep telling yourself that but apart from QoL features the game is the same as its always been, your doing the same content that you do every expansion, dungeons/raids/pvp/world content, just takes longer to do in vanilla.

The game is unable to evolve to the next gen level and classic wont bring back those lost players, it will still retain a healthy number of players but cant keep them playing because the game is just getting old and older players have not really got the time to invest in it anymore.

[Elias01]

The reason people stop playing is because the game doesnt really change that much, its still the same as any other expansion and after a few years thats boring, the game is tailored to the largest part of the playerbase, many people have been playing for 10 plus years at some point the game is not going to be exciting to play anymore no matter what expansion it is.

WoW is just getting old and nothing is really going to ignite that spark to get many players back.

Classic proves you wrong.

[Fred Skinner]

It is not good for me anymore.

[Elias01]

There's a lot to do in WoW, 'catching up' allows you to do those things. Read my longer post on the page before.

It was different in TBC because the population was still growing fast, so there were always people at your level, by Cataclysm certainly, the population had kind of stagnated, and the reset with the new expansion put everyone on the same page; and on the same page they stayed. It's not really a matter of 'catching up' in that respect anymore.

I know for a fact if I log on tonight, which I may well do, there won't be many players on the first tier of raids/dungeons, which is the level I left it at. Like I said in my last page, with Azerite Power, and no one to play with at my level, there's literally no prospect of catching up to play with anyone else. So I don't play.

No catching up makes you skip those things.

[Soon-TM]

faction war story COULD have been the best yet, but they lacked the testicular fortitude to truly embrace one side being the villain, and having winners/losers.

<Partial snip>

WoW of today is a COMPLETELY different game than wow of vanilla-wotlk.

They aren't even truly the same game genre.

Older wow is a traditional MMORPG, retail wow is an MMO ARPG inspired by D3. One is more EQ, and the other more D3 the mmo.

not comparable at all

This, so much this. So far, only two things are clear in this story: that Sylvanas will get away like np after the War of Thorns and the ensuing burning of Teldrassil (thus pissing Alliance fans off); and that the Horde will lose yet another Warchief, thus cementing the "Warchief revolving door" meme - with a thorough Alliance sycophant to replace her, for extra salt.

And yes, gameplay-wise today's WoW is D3: Forced Multiplayer Edition. Which can be fine for some folks, but still a far cry from more "classic" MMO flavours such as EQ, GW, ESO or even early (Vanilla/BC) WoW.

[FelPlague]

People have no idea what they want and whine about, 90% of the time they contradict themselves (especially the Classic fanboys). That's not to say BfA is good, it really isn't, but it's still the best MMORPG on the market at the moment - believe me, I've played ALL others.

Let's hope we get a good 9.0.

"We want change we want something new"
Is a common thing said by the gamer crowd, yet every year a new fifa game comes out, a new cod, a new mario, a new pokemon, a new assassins creed. which is the exact same fucking game, but with 1 new gimic, and MOST of the time that 1 gimic is the thing people cry about constantly.
meanwhile they then go back and play the same old game they have been playing for years.


wow players are another perfect example, they cry for change, they cry for something new, then when it comes they hate it no matter what.

People in the "classic community" hate on pathfinder because "it makes travel slow which is just a way to boost MAU" but that is literally the entirety of vanilla wow. you cant even fly. They complain about leveling being slow, yet again vanila. they cry about cash shops, then go play a classless private server that sells mounts ripped right from blizzard for 100$ a fucking pop

People are famous at being both hypocrites, and not knowing what they want. (^^^ this server was super fucking popular, still is, and has been FILLED with people calling blizzard shit over "their shitty ingame store")

[plz delete account]

"We want change we want something new"
Is a common thing said by the gamer crowd, yet every year a new fifa game comes out, a new cod, a new mario, a new pokemon, a new assassins creed. which is the exact same fucking game, but with 1 new gimic, and MOST of the time that 1 gimic is the thing people cry about constantly.
meanwhile they then go back and play the same old game they have been playing for years.


wow players are another perfect example, they cry for change, they cry for something new, then when it comes they hate it no matter what.

People in the "classic community" hate on pathfinder because "it makes travel slow which is just a way to boost MAU" but that is literally the entirety of vanilla wow. you cant even fly. They complain about leveling being slow, yet again vanila. they cry about cash shops, then go play a classless private server that sells mounts ripped right from blizzard for 100$ a fucking pop

People are famous at being both hypocrites, and not knowing what they want. (^^^ this server was super fucking popular, still is, and has been FILLED with people calling blizzard shit over "their shitty ingame store")

>Using windows 10