I don't get what are you saying, is it that some people don't have time to run m+ or that they aren't capable of doing +10 and need to be "boosted"? I mean even the worst raid logger that can clear heroic can clear +10 as well, so yeah, if the guild "doesn't wanna help them do +10" it's probably because they're already carrying them in the raid... Personally I dislike the big skill disparity that happens in some casual guilds where there are people who are blatantly dead weight.
An average mythic raider (meaning belonging in some world 1000 rank guild that gets cutting edge after 3 nerf waves 4-5 months in or so) can clear +10 no problem even with bad setup. I've seen people who tragicly underperform in raiding yet clear m+ just fine... maybe if they had to do a +20 they would flop, but +10 is no prob, you clear it even with several wipes.
Also a problem if the leadership of a guild is lazy, inept or cowardly and doesn't put rules then enforce them. Like list minimal amount of effort people need to do (ap wise, m+ wise) and punish the slackers, but on the other hand try to reign in the insane top end farmers who try to pressure the rest into putting the same nolife effort (or tell them straight up they should find a more hardcore guild because they clearly expect more than the guild goals are).
Before Legion what a raider "needed to do" was a fairly narrow bracket, since Legion the problem appeared there are rifts and conflicts between the people who expect to raidlog and people who expect to farm 20-40h a week as a norm. It's partially Blizzard's fault for creating this amazing opportunity for people to just "outfarm" their peers like in some Asian MMO, partially community's fault for ignoring the issue and believing it will solve itself, or that humans are flawless and resentment won't grow based on disparities within the team.
"If you remove any possible reasons to enjoy raiding and assume all you do is wipe and get no drops, why raid?"
"If you consider only accidents, people dying and mechanical problems, why even own a car?"
"If you assume you're allergic and only consider the possible trouble of injuries and also picking up poop and being forced to walk outside, why even get a dog?"
"If you don't realize you have nothing interesting to say, what is there to stop you from disregarding important information to manufacture a bullshit argument and make a thread about it?"
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Essentia@Cho'gall of Inebriated Raiding.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ssentia/simple
http://masteroverwatch.com/profile/pc/us/Tharkkun-1222
For fun. Like the rest of the damned game.
To see the raid, experience the content and defeat the raid bosses. That's the point.
"...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."
It used to because of best looking gear (before xmog killed it )/ best gear ( before M+ killed it ) / tier sets ( before BFA killed it ) / best trinkets ( still somewhat relevant)/
So basically now I guess just to see the new art and get some good trinkets lol
Objectively and verifiably, there are a lot of people doing all 4 difficulties so your whole argument falls apart. You also fail to address what would actually be better about the shit situation that existed in the past when so many guilds found normal too easy and heroic too hard.
I think the idea is for people to do a combination of world content, dungeons and raiding. having multiple routes to gear up help you progress through each aspect of the game.
IIRC, a few years ago, people were crying about the "raid or die" mentality, which blizzard fixed with mythic dungeons (and eventually mythic+)
if you're upset that you only like one piece of that content, and are "forced" to do other parts of the game to "stay competitive", then that is a personal problem.
The payoff difference between Raiding v M+ became really apparent to me this tier, especially with how bad M Ashvane has been with my guild.
I raid when Tiers effect on gears were a thing.
I raid when gears come with multiple sockets were a thing.
I raid when Loot such loot council/ Master loot/ other listed were a thing.
All those were being taken away is like taking my Satisfaction and Desire away right now.. ALL WATERED DOWN.
We used to be in blue gears to try overcome the challenge for raiding.. now it's all gone. Mythic+ giving you free candies gears and WF/TF craps. Most of people has lost desire to raid since things change and make it too easy.
Last edited by trapmaster; 2019-08-16 at 03:42 PM.
If you fixate more on the destination, in this case gear, than the journey itself you're bound to have a dull experience in most things.
I mean the point of raiding is to kill the last boss. Why do people play any game?
M18+ seems a bit excessive in your mindset. While I do agree that mythic dungeons should have a higher threshold to get heroic/mythic quality raid loot that seems a bit extreme. It does become disheartening when you run keys and have no gear beyond azerite or maybe a weapon to look for dropping in your weekly raid nights.
Fact. And many are too blind to see it.
I agree.
@OP. It is now essentially only about prestige and a very few pieces of loot really. Plus the experience. But let's be real, the experience counts little. Friends count more and loot as well. The main driving factors. If you don't have friends to do it with, you won't give a rat about experiencing it with 19 others. The most tangible thing was, the loot.
It should be a privilege to carry that 15 ilvls higher gear. Seeing everyone walking around in it, makes nobody special in that regard.