[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[rogueMatthias]

Very difficult to see why the LD's would oppose this. It is not as if Corbyn would be able to do anything other than oppose Brexit with the current electoral math. You'd almost think the LD's aren't really opposed to Brexit at all and are solely interested in gaining votes from marginalized pro-europeans...because it is probably true.

Though I'm sure the resident apologists for the LD's will contrive some implausible argument....

No he won't because he's the biggest and most genuine Eurosceptic in parliament and has had years sitting on the fence on this now. It's STILL about another bloody general election and not Brexit again. I still believe Boris is just pro Brexit for political reasons; Corbyn is the real Brexiteer.

The sheer arrogance and pig-headedness of Corbyn is staggering and painful to watch. A general election is the last thing anyone should want now. The government is so weak now that it's difficult for them to do anything. Make do with that.

The Brexit party only exists to blackmail Conservatives into wrapping up Brexit fast. Much as I despise Farage, I don't believe he's dumb enough to do the massive own goal of running MPs against the Tories in a ge if Boris is commited to leave with no deal.

What we'll see is Brexit party endorsing Boris and not standing and the rest of the vote split so much it will be devastating. Lib Dem areas will get a boost in the vote. Labour areas will have their vote split by (genuine) Brexit parties and could lose a LOT of seats to the Tories.

Corbyn seems to think he'll walk it, and people will be singing "Oooh Jeremy Corbyn" in the streets again; he seems oblivious that there's a genuine possibility that another general election could literally wipe out Labour entirely.

[LeGin Tufnel]

Actually, I think Swinson's wrong.

Who else would lead a caretaker government? What alternative is she proposing? Yvette Cooper / Ken Clarke / another backbencher? And I don't really see how it'd be possible not to hold a GE before a possible 2nd ref. A caretaker gov with Corbyn wouldn't survive for the length of time needed to organise it.

They need to get over the fact they dislike Corbyn and get on with it.

The real question for Corbyn is: would he be prepared to revoke A50 if the EU did not grant another extension. I agree with @rogueMatthias - he's the genuine leaver. Not BJ.

[dribbles]

They're alrdy saying it's fake news and that it's all lies there's no helping these people anymore.

Except drive around any rural area in the UK and all you will see is Brexit Party signs on the edge of farmers fields. Strange that isn't it?

Incidentally now you have got your own personal brexit, yet wish to deny the majority in the UK theirs, and are a fully fledged EU citizen how do you feel about this when returning to see friends and relatives?

NHS hospitals ‘told to prepare to charge newly-arrived EU citizens the day after a No Deal Brexit’

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/972368...ients-no-deal/

More lovely bunce for our NHS, thank you in advance

[Pann]

Actually, I think Swinson's wrong.

Who else would lead a caretaker government? What alternative is she proposing? Yvette Cooper / Ken Clarke / another backbencher? And I don't really see how it'd be possible not to hold a GE before a possible 2nd ref. A caretaker gov with Corbyn wouldn't survive for the length of time needed to organise it.

They need to get over the fact they dislike Corbyn and get on with it.

The real question for Corbyn is: would he be prepared to revoke A50 if the EU did not grant another extension. I agree with @rogueMatthias - he's the genuine leaver. Not BJ.

It's not just Swinson. The SNP, Plaid, Greens, etc have all expressed doubts over this proposal and if Umunna (Burner - don't waste your time, I don't care) is to be believed there are MPs in his own party that have doubts too.

In order for a confidence motion to succeed it will need the backing of Con MPs, voting to bring down their own party will be difficult enough, voting to put the leader of the opposition in No.10 is a different matter entirely . As Peston put it (in this article https://www.itv.com/news/2019-08-14/...robert-peston/); Corbyn seems to be doing his best to gee up enemies and alienate potential allies.

I'm not sure why you think it would not be possible to hold a ref. before a GE (which would be the sensible option). It takes minimum of 22 weeks to organise a ref. however the important part of the timeline, from a temporary government's point of view, is the time it would take to pass the legislation granting the ref. Given that, assuming a successful confidence motion, the house has voted to bring down the government with the express purpose to stop Brexit it is unlikely that there would be a majority to oppose this and by copying over some of the legislation from 2016 it could be done relatively quickly.

With regard to your last question, I don't doubt that this prospect would please many of the posters here but by denying an extension for a GE or ref. that could potentially stop Brexit the EU would be all but guaranteeing a no-deal Brexit. It simply wouldn't happen.

[Slant]

With regard to your last question, I don't doubt that this prospect would please many of the posters here but by denying an extension for a GE or ref. that could potentially stop Brexit the EU would be all but guaranteeing a no-deal Brexit. It simply wouldn't happen.

So... the last time the EU was asked for an extension to sort things out in the UK and get people to agree to the WA somehow. By magic, supposedly. Turns out, they wasted 4 out of 6 months, tossed the PM, got a new PM and now no-deal is more likely than ever.

Explain to me again how the EU should not reject another extension? Is this bluffing without a decent hand while showing the other side what you got again? That didn't work out so well the last time, did it? Why would another extension be any different? Because you say so? Is this British make-believe again? Or are you going to use technological solutions to remove the divide in the country?

The EU's (realistic) choices in this are "no deal now or no deal later". The EU has made it clear that this state of limbo has to end. There is no indication bar actual revolution that the UK is able and willing to overcome this impasse. Since it's most likely going to be no-deal anyway, might as well end it right here, right now. If the UK can't finish this, the EU will finish it for them. Mark my words.

[Mayhem]

So... the last time the EU was asked for an extension to sort things out in the UK and get people to agree to the WA somehow. By magic, supposedly. Turns out, they wasted 4 out of 6 months, tossed the PM, got a new PM and now no-deal is more likely than ever.

Explain to me again how the EU should not reject another extension? Is this bluffing without a decent hand while showing the other side what you got again? That didn't work out so well the last time, did it? Why would another extension be any different? Because you say so? Is this British make-believe again? Or are you going to use technological solutions to remove the divide in the country?

The EU's (realistic) choices in this are "no deal now or no deal later". The EU has made it clear that this state of limbo has to end. There is no indication bar actual revolution that the UK is able and willing to overcome this impasse. Since it's most likely going to be no-deal anyway, might as well end it right here, right now. If the UK can't finish this, the EU will finish it for them. Mark my words.

Don't waste your time on Pann, the things he cares about in this thread are: don't be mean to Brexit supporters (while ridiculing people himself), the EU must renegotiate or it is just as much at fault as the UK (while not being able to answer what the EU should be renegotiating) and some hogwash like the post you've quoted about how the EU will/must/absolutely have to grant another extension for shits and giggles.

I'm not quite sure why he thinks the EU will halt everything to wait for UKs politicians to sort it out when 3 years have shown that they are not willing to do so.

[draykorinee]

Except drive around any rural area in the UK and all you will see is Brexit Party signs on the edge of farmers fields. Strange that isn't it?

Incidentally now you have got your own personal brexit, yet wish to deny the majority in the UK theirs, and are a fully fledged EU citizen how do you feel about this when returning to see friends and relatives?

NHS hospitals ‘told to prepare to charge newly-arrived EU citizens the day after a No Deal Brexit’

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/972368...ients-no-deal/

More lovely bunce for our NHS, thank you in advance

Not in Somerset you don't, never seen a brexit sign on a farm, stop making up anecdotes.

The NHS makes about 100-200 million a year from Overseas patients, if you think charging EU residents is going to net us much you're deluded. The latest data suggest at best £340 million, most trusts are happy not to bother because they only receive a small portion, whereas if they just do the work they get all the money.

[Mormolyce]

Are you insinuating that the remainist phenomenon is strong on mmo-c? Nice article! Lots of lols. And from the Guardian too, very surprising.

One day you'll learn what an op-ed is. One day.

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i STILL dont get it. whats the solution here? open border between the UK and EU through northern ireland?
i thought the UK wants to "take back control" of their borders? is free movement through northern ireland not counter to that?

He doesn't have any solutions, he's a creature of pure rhetoric and hurt feelings. Emblematic of Brexit itself, really.

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Remember it's all "fake news" and "project fear" guys:

And it goes further, Bow to your US overlords Little England!

Mmmm, can't wait to get some of that Chlorine Fried Chicken.

[sircaw]

Me neither, gonna love all those trips to the doctors with constant food poisoning.

You really are a piece of work.

[sircaw]

How so? Did I upset you because America has one of the biggest food poisoning trends in the entire world and now they want to turn brits into stupid (which is not really impossible at this point) 2nd class americans?

https://www.voanews.com/science-heal...us-report-says

No, nothing to do with that at all i am afraid. I just think your a piece of work.

[dribbles]

Not in Somerset you don't, never seen a brexit sign on a farm, stop making up anecdotes.

The NHS makes about 100-200 million a year from Overseas patients, if you think charging EU residents is going to net us much you're deluded. The latest data suggest at best £340 million, most trusts are happy not to bother because they only receive a small portion, whereas if they just do the work they get all the money.

That would be the same Somerset that repeatedly elects Jacob Rees-Mogg? lol yeah right, I'm there next week perhaps I'll post a pic of one...

[draykorinee]

That would be the same Somerset that repeatedly elects Jacob Rees-Mogg? lol yeah right, I'm there next week perhaps I'll post a pic of one...

We have 5 constituencies and 5 tories cos we have a bunch of morons voting here.

Not once have I seen a Brexit sign.

[dribbles]

We have 5 constituencies and 5 tories cos we have a bunch of morons voting here.

Not once have I seen a Brexit sign.

Here is why, by almost 2 to one, farmers (not just in Somerset) support Brexit.

Britain and British Farmers are effectively subsidising their competitors, paying £9bn into the CAP to receive £3bn back with France receiving almost three times as much as the UK.

https://www.bidwells.co.uk/insights-...ferendum-poll/

Once again facts defeat project fear lies. Case closed.

[dribbles]

Er...dribbles, you know that Mogg wants to flood Britain with our charming colourful brethren in Commonwealth nations...are you sure that's what you want? Personally I think it is a splendid idea.

Sure if they have talents/wealth to offer the UK no problem, join the party. What is disastrous is the come one come all invite that Merkel issued to all the scumbags of the world who are taking her up on that by the million and destroying the EU, along with the UK if we don't leave, in the process.

I think Bojo/Rees-Mogg are planning an Australian points based filtration system to exclude the crappier elements. Excellent.

Can't do it without Brexit though...

[Mayhem]

Here is why, by almost 2 to one, farmers (not just in Somerset) support Brexit.

Britain and British Farmers are effectively subsidising their competitors, paying £9bn into the CAP to receive £3bn back with France receiving almost three times as much as the UK.

https://www.bidwells.co.uk/insights-...ferendum-poll/

Once again facts defeat project fear lies. Case closed.

73% of agri-food imports to the UK come from the EU-27.

What's the plan to offset this?

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Sure if they have talents/wealth to offer the UK no problem, join the party. What is disastrous is the come one come all invite that Merkel issued to all the scumbags of the world who are taking her up on that by the million and destroying the EU, along with the UK if we don't leave, in the process.

I think Bojo/Rees-Mogg are planning an Australian points based filtration system to exclude the crappier elements. Excellent.

Can't do it without Brexit though...

If you can't do it without Brexit, why haven't you enforced the laws already in place that would do just that?

[draykorinee]

Here is why, by almost 2 to one, farmers (not just in Somerset) support Brexit.

Britain and British Farmers are effectively subsidising their competitors, paying £9bn into the CAP to receive £3bn back with France receiving almost three times as much as the UK.

https://www.bidwells.co.uk/insights-...ferendum-poll/

Once again facts defeat project fear lies. Case closed.

577 farmers

[Easo]

The UK is not part of Schengen. But Gibraltar does have a problem, their border was open and will now have to be closed as well. It's little wonder they overwhelmingly (90%+) voted to stay.

Ah, i totally brainfarted (especially since I visited UK last year... xD).

[Mayhem]

577 farmers

Ah, the amount of farmers asked doesn't matter that much, 577 is large enough to give a relatively good idea of their views overall. However, as per usual, what dribbles links doesn't help his case.

That thing is ignoring the repercussions of no-deal Brexit especially the no-deal part, you know, the thing where the UK has virtually no deals in place with any countries. To offset that lack of deals the pound must plummet for farmers in the UK to become competitive because they will be hit with tariffs instantly. That, however, will make imports that much more expensive and considering 73% of agri-food imports come from the EU-27, things either will get more expensive or less fresh.

So what will it be? Will the UK safe their farmers and make them more competitive on the global market, or will they use that money instead to import fresh food to the country?

tik tok

[Slant]

Ah, the amount of farmers asked doesn't matter that much, 577 is large enough to give a relatively good idea of their views overall. However, as per usual, what dribbles links doesn't help his case.

That thing is ignoring the repercussions of no-deal Brexit especially the no-deal part, you know, the thing where the UK has virtually no deals in place with any countries. To offset that lack of deals the pound must plummet for farmers in the UK to become competitive because they will be hit with tariffs instantly. That, however, will make imports that much more expensive and considering 73% of agri-food imports come from the EU-27, things either will get more expensive or less fresh.

So what will it be? Will the UK safe their farmers and make them more competitive on the global market, or will they use that money instead to import fresh food to the country?

tik tok

Imports won't be more expensive, remember the UK is not going to impose customs on anyone. They will be flooded with food from all sides. Some of it may not even be rotten, good times!

[Mayhem]

Imports won't be more expensive, remember the UK is not going to impose customs on anyone. They will be flooded with food from all sides. Some of it may not even be rotten, good times!

With the pound tanking imports will get more expensive.