Why does the US have so few competitive guilds nowadays?

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Odds are that means not enough people care or think it is worth it to do. Seriously, it is probably that simple.

[Playintrafic]

The US has been behind other regions for world first for probably around a decade or more now. But, throughout most of that period there were at least several US guilds competing against each other, generally for ranking within the top 10. Now, there exists only Limit who are even in the top 20. (Two) Ocean guilds have killed Azshara, to (one) United States guild.

What happened? Guilds like Blood Legion, Vodka, Premonition all used to be competing at the same time. Now we have no one

We have to work. Unlike certain parts of the EU, and even the eu people who do actual work, get waaaay more vacation than people in the US who get little or no vacation.

[trapmaster]

The US has been behind other regions for world first for probably around a decade or more now. But, throughout most of that period there were at least several US guilds competing against each other, generally for ranking within the top 10. Now, there exists only Limit who are even in the top 20. (Two) Ocean guilds have killed Azshara, to (one) United States guild.

What happened? Guilds like Blood Legion, Vodka, Premonition all used to be competing at the same time. Now we have no one

Times changes, plus we move on... honestly... it was kinda expected...

[Osmeric]

Odds are that means not enough people care or think it is worth it to do. Seriously, it is probably that simple.

It's this. And we're seeing more people who were doing M raiding reaching this conclusion. The more grindy it gets, and the more difficult, the easier it is to decide this.

[Mukind]

MMO's are not highly thought of among competitive video game players in NA

The vast majority of NA players who sub don't really think about reaching the skill ceiling...If they did they'd probably spend their time in other games

[MrExcelion]

MMO's are not highly thought of among competitive video game players in NA

The vast majority of NA players who sub don't really think about reaching the skill ceiling...If they did they'd probably spend their time in other games

Yeah I don't think WoW raiding is capturing much of the competitive gaming market in the 15-20 age demo these days, with all of the other genres and options out there. Doesn't resonate with them. I still appreciate WoW raiding for what it is, but it really is a time commitment.

Other than blaming the game itself, I think the marketing of WoW hasn't been great. They should go back to doing those commercials.

[Tech614]

Yeah I don't think WoW raiding is capturing much of the competitive gaming market in the 15-20 age demo these days, with all of the other genres and options out there. Doesn't resonate with them. I still appreciate WoW raiding for what it is, but it really is a time commitment.

Other than blaming the game itself, I think the marketing of WoW hasn't been great. They should go back to doing those commercials.

It's not about the time commitment, the youth are just committing their time to other games because MMOs are not in style.

MMO is an old person genre(30+) and 30+ year olds in the US don't have enough free time to be competitive raiders for the most part.

[HatsHatsHats]

If it's not for profit American's don't have time to do it

[Amaterasu65]

we go outside

Don't forget your gun vests on your way out.

[Misuteri]

MMO's are not highly thought of among competitive video game players in NA

The vast majority of NA players who sub don't really think about reaching the skill ceiling...If they did they'd probably spend their time in other games

I don't know any teenagers or tweens that are begging for a high end laptop or PC for gaming.

They would much rather have a console or more likely a phone.

The market has just shifted from a hardware perspective where more accessible and powerful hardware can be used on a bus or on a couch as opposed to a desk with a hardwire connection that existed 15 years ago.

So games on other platforms are going to generate much more trial and like/dislike than PC games. Plus with F2P such a trend and game subscription services buying a game for $50 and plunking down $15 a month isn't a great recipe for attracting young gamers used to "free" or "bundled".

WoW's userbase is aging, people have quit due to life as much as the game's trends/expansions, replacement players have not kept up due to many of the reasons I've already described.

Plus, in the PC world, is WoW even a top 20 let alone 10 game anymore?

[Mukind]

I don't know any teenagers or tweens that are begging for a high end laptop or PC for gaming.

They would much rather have a console or more likely a phone.

The market has just shifted from a hardware perspective where more accessible and powerful hardware can be used on a bus or on a couch as opposed to a desk with a hardwire connection that existed 15 years ago.

So games on other platforms are going to generate much more trial and like/dislike than PC games. Plus with F2P such a trend and game subscription services buying a game for $50 and plunking down $15 a month isn't a great recipe for attracting young gamers used to "free" or "bundled".

WoW's userbase is aging, people have quit due to life as much as the game's trends/expansions, replacement players have not kept up due to many of the reasons I've already described.

Plus, in the PC world, is WoW even a top 20 let alone 10 game anymore?

well i mean pc gaming has grown since the peak of wow subs in north america. i was giong to say a similar thing until i realized wow was built on a massive sub base in NA. And that pc player base has only grown. Yet MMOs are dying especially here

MMO's are like drama club. They have a stigma

It's why we have few MMO players or male American actors. Playing an MMO is nerdier than playing some tabletop RPG these days

In revenue and player base it seems to be very high up there still. Many come and go but wow chugs along. Might even be top 5

[anon5123]

The game is super fucking old and most players have quit. Very few people feel like being "competitive" in a 15 year old game that keeps getting worse and less popular with each expac.

[Mukind]

The game is super fucking old and most players have quit. Very few people feel like being "competitive" in a 15 year old game that keeps getting worse and less popular with each expac.

there are no competitive players in any other mmo's either lol

i don't think it's the age of the game

there were never competitive players in NA MMO's relative to the euros.

[sil3ntearth]

The US has been behind other regions for world first for probably around a decade or more now. But, throughout most of that period there were at least several US guilds competing against each other, generally for ranking within the top 10. Now, there exists only Limit who are even in the top 20. (Two) Ocean guilds have killed Azshara, to (one) United States guild.

What happened? Guilds like Blood Legion, Vodka, Premonition all used to be competing at the same time. Now we have no one

It seems to me that WoW has done a poor job of attracting younger players. As such, my guild is full of 30+ year olds that have kids. We probably play more than we should and are just now getting to Mythic EP.

I'd put my money on an aging playerbase in NA.

[Luxeley]

I noticed when the WOW movie came out in 2016, it disappeared from theaters in 3 weeks. Not much excitement or demand for WOW here in the US. However, the movie performed better than avg. in Europe and really well in China. I strongly believe it's a good indicator of where the bulk of WOW fans reside. Wow in the US is just not as popular as it was 5 or 6 years ago.

[bloodwulf]

Biggest reason is probably the reliability of vacation time in Europe. It is my understanding that vacation is basically a right in most European industry, and not a privilege like most US industry. They also get a lot more of it compared to US. I have been at my job for 6 years, and i only have 2 weeks of vacation, i wont get my third til after 7 years. People like to attribute it to some faux work ethic sensibility, but is mostly because US Industry has gotten away with it for so long and no one will touch business through regulation because Socialism Bad.

[Mukind]

It seems to me that WoW has done a poor job of attracting younger players. As such, my guild is full of 30+ year olds that have kids. We probably play more than we should and are just now getting to Mythic EP.

I'd put my money on an aging playerbase in NA.

it was true when you were all 15 as well.

this point makes no sense

NA has always sucked and been filled with people who don't care about competitive play or reachign teh ceiling. What game are you guys playing? lol

You can go in any tab targeting MMO and you'll find the same thing over and over

SWTOR and FF14 Reborn same thing. Although granted SWTOR was full of older dudes relative to your average MMO

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Biggest reason is probably the reliability of vacation time in Europe. It is my understanding that vacation is basically a right in most European industry, and not a privilege like most US industry. They also get a lot more of it compared to US. I have been at my job for 6 years, and i only have 2 weeks of vacation, i wont get my third til after 7 years. People like to attribute it to some faux work ethic sensibility, but is mostly because US Industry has gotten away with it for so long and no one will touch business through regulation because Socialism Bad.

vacation time won't change your view on hitting the skill ceiling or competitive play.

this makes no sense lol

This may be why we don't get world firsts....Would have no effect on how competitive our player base is tho. You don't need to be world first to be "competitive". Just give a shit and try to get better. It's a tab targeting MMO the ceiling is low anyone can do it.

They ain't doing anything special in method lol

[bloodwulf]

it was true when you were all 15 as well.

this point makes no sense

NA has always sucked and been filled with people who don't care about competitive play or reachign teh ceiling. What game are you guys playing? lol

You can go in any tab targeting MMO and you'll find the same thing over and over

SWTOR and FF14 Reborn same thing. Although granted SWTOR was full of older dudes relative to your average MMO

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vacation time won't change your view on hitting the skill ceiling or competitive play.

this makes no sense lol

This may be why we don't get world firsts....Would have no effect on how competitive our player base is tho

I am not sure what you are talking about. Other Esports have competitive teams from NA, so it's not that the NA can't make the playerbase. It is simply that competitive WOW is not a livable profession compared to other esports, and in Europe the players can take more time off to compete in the bleeding edge. Heck look at Method, they only have a handful of "Full-time" wow players, the rest take "holiday" for release of a tier to compete during the 2-3 week window.

[Mukind]

I am not sure what you are talking about. Other Esports have competitive teams from NA, so it's not that the NA can't make the playerbase. It is simply that competitive WOW is not a livable profession compared to other esports, and in Europe the players can take more time off to compete in the bleeding edge. Heck look at Method, they only have a handful of "Full-time" wow players, the rest take "holiday" for release of a tier to compete during the 2-3 week window.

Yea again there is a stigma

MMO's are for women and nerds who don't care about winning

Had competitive players long before the Koreans made it profitable.....Just the love of the game should bring us through

This isn't about the top end. The top end needs a farm system, there are no competitive NA MMO players. Maybe 1/25 max level players are legitimately attempting to reach teh skill ceiling on your average NA server. And that's very generous.

The very top end is just an anecdote, it's irrelevant. You know why. You're surrounded by shitters on these servers. We have a much worse competitive millieu in this genre

You won't find many scandi MMO players who aren't worried about how close they are to the skill ceiling

[bloodwulf]

Yea again there is a stigma

MMO's are for women and nerds who don't care about winning

Had competitive players long before the Koreans made it profitable.....Just the love of the game should bring us through

This isn't about the top end. The top end needs a farm system, there are no competitive MMO players. Maybe 1/25 max level players are legitimately attempting to reach teh skill ceiling on your average NA server. And that's very generous.

The very top end is just an anecdote, it's irrelevant. You know why. You're surrounded by shitters on these servers. We have a much worse competitive millieu in this genre

I feel like you are arguing something completely different than what the thread is.

You are arguing WOW can't be competitive (which is wrong as is shown in the World First Race and the Top End Arena Championships).

The thread is asking why NA is not competitive compared to EU regions. Which you have not once addressed.


There are tons of players who play to be the very best at what they do, they are found in all regions. The problem with World First races is NA struggles to have the time to compete directly as most of the top end players have to maintain full time jobs outside due to lack of professional esports contracts when compared to DOTA\LOL\CSGO.