Unpopular opinion: J. Allen Brack was right

[Lazuli]

i like how nobody even wants to wait until classic is out to shout out their opinion.. in 6 months this guy's account will be deleted because he doesn't want the "you were wrong d-sucker" messages 1k per day.
seriously wait until the game is even out before you judge it lol.

Can always pull the "haha I was trolling you retards I knew it was viable obviously, I played since day 1 lmao kek"

[Heathy]

because paladins are the obvious contradiction to your point

t3 changes nothing blues always suck you alwyas needed to raid to be competitive

welcome to vanilla

you didn't in the beginning when no one had raid gear this is what i'm saying ya ignoramus, when the vast majority of ppl were blue geared they did alright against other ppl with blue gear. there is no contradiction because even palas could do alright in pvp assuming they had cooldowns and the person they are fighting did not, as is with pretty much any scenario in pvp, you have cooldowns you have a chance. its fine if some classes were better at other things that other classes thats an inherent fact of the class balance. not the gear balance.

largely healers can always be useful as they aren't fighting but healing the ones that are. you can be a green geared pala but if you're healing a aq40 geared warrior doesn't matter if you have greens. that guy will do all the killing. if you keep him alive.

my priest had benediction when i got that staff, i couldn't do pvp anymore, groups of rogues would just single me out and i'd get the ambush crews following me around. largely why i decided to play rogue in pvp exclusively. priests in pvp meh, once ppl realised they could travel around as a group of 4-5 rogues and basically one tap anyone. that was the end of pvp for me as a priest. benediction was a blessing and a curse for me, you stand out like a sore thumb in pvp, ppl don't have to look hard for the right target see you from a mile away.

[Luxeley]

I tend to lean towards agreeing. But what I know will be my XP doesn't translate to others XP with Classic. I'd love to level up a toon and go through the old zones. But then, what? I don't like raiding, never have, probably never will. I prefer Pvp, but Vanilla Pvp (without raiding for gear)...umm no. Since I can't see an end game for myself, I seriously doubt I'll dive into Classic. If I knew Blizzard planned to add another xpac in 2-3 years after Classic, something totally new but in the same flavor of old school WOW, I'd sign up, but until then... um no.

[OokOok]

Many wow vanilla players wouldn’t play pirate realms for many reasons such as character deletion by lawyer, not supporting piracy, etc

Private vanilla servers have 1.8 million players according to a google search. Double that for a real vanilla realm

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There’s nothing wrong with haves and have nots in an mmorpg imho. It provides incentive to get better, and a fulfilling reward for the work to get there

It’s better than one size fits all wow imo where none of it matters and everyone is special. If everyone is special no one is

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They can’t fix retail because it’s broken at the foundational level and they’d have to create a wow that resembles tbc and vanilla with haves and have nots and that won’t fly with the people still enjoying diablo WoW

I think you need to learn how to google. It's not possible to google the exact number or any real number of private server players because all the servers aren't connected like they are on retail, you doink.
plus 1.8M is the current sub number of retail, so obviously you don't know how to read as well lol.

[MoanaLisa]

Just a tad bit contradicting ...people don't want vanilla, just literally everything it had. SO.. basically they want vanilla.

Rofl

It's not contradictory at all to miss the experience of vanilla--slower leveling and gameplay, more difficulty, a sense of achievement, progression--without being required to just trek through content that you've already done.

It's pretty clear what the original post was about. I believe a lot of people would be 100% on board with that experience in new content. I also believe that doing it all over again, no matter how much the content meets those conditions, is something that some people don't need or want to do.

[Atrea]

It's pretty clear what the original post was about. I believe a lot of people would be 100% on board with that experience in new content. I also believe that doing it all over again, no matter how much the content meets those conditions, is something that some people don't need or want to do.

I'm of the mind that the "I miss vanilla WoW" phenomenon is a lot like the quintessential "midlife crisis".

People are trying to re-capture a feeling more than anything else, and nothing can tell them that buying a sports car at 48 won't bring that feeling back. They have to go out and make that mistake for themselves.

[MoanaLisa]

I'm of the mind that the "I miss vanilla WoW" phenomenon is a lot like the quintessential "midlife crisis".

People are trying to re-capture a feeling more than anything else, and nothing can tell them that buying a sports car at 48 won't bring that feeling back. They have to go out and make that mistake for themselves.

Thomas Wolfe once wrote a book titled "You Can't Go Home Again" which roughly means that revisiting a time and place from long ago is possible but the experience won't be the same.

It isn't always true--sometimes that magic can be recaptured--but most of the time it is. People will have to give it a try and decide for themselves. There's much to like about both versions of the game. They are complementary to each other, not competitive.

[Djuntas]

People will quit at level 40. Aint nobody gonna spend 250 hours to just level with no aoe loot and shit.

[Dacien]

People are trying to re-capture a feeling more than anything else, and nothing can tell them that buying a sports car at 48 won't bring that feeling back. They have to go out and make that mistake for themselves.

What if they just enjoy the game? There's tons of old, old games that have communities that still play them, not just MMO's. A lot of people found the slower leveling and involved processes to do anything fun. The feeling you're describing arose because playing the game was really fun. The gameplay was good. The whole reason there's a nostalgia factor is because the game was, and is, really really fun for a lot of people.

[Vulf]

People will quit at level 40. Aint nobody gonna spend 250 hours to just level with no aoe loot and shit.

In a way, lack of AoE looting isn't going to be as inconvenient as it sounds. Barring mages, what classes are going to be killing multiple (3 or more) mobs at once to yield multiple corpses to simultaneously loot?

[Erous]

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there is no item in raids that "40 people" are all going to be rolling on

Can you read it, now that it's bolded and in a large font?

https://classic.wowhead.com/item=18422/head-of-onyxia

What do I get for the daily double, Alex?

[Sensa1]

Thomas Wolfe once wrote a book titled "You Can't Go Home Again" which roughly means that revisiting a time and place from long ago is possible but the experience won't be the same.

It isn't always true--sometimes that magic can be recaptured--but most of the time it is. People will have to give it a try and decide for themselves. There's much to like about both versions of the game. They are complementary to each other, not competitive.

I actually think the nostalgia component, often cited by naysayers (of which you are not), as the only reason people would possibly play Classic is actually meant most often as a dig at Classic fans and is usually followed in short order by a reference to rose coloured glasses.

I have fond memories of Vanilla as it was the first game of this type I ever played and I got into a good guild comprised of some buddies from work and a great group of people from Australia (we played on an Oceanic server due to work schedules). I long ago lost contact with the Australian crowd and most of those co-workers I played with have drifted away as well over the past 15 years. I know, as any reasonably intelligent person should, that I won't be able to re-create or re-live that original experience in any real and meaningful way. Classic isn't a reboot of BH90210 or Will & Grace experience for me.

What a lot of people just can't seem to get through their heads is that, warts and all, the most compelling reason to play Classic is design / reward mechanism that adhere to "classic" game theory. I'm not going to rehash all the differences between Vanilla and Retail (and go on a tirade defending Classic / bashing Retail) because those differences are well documented and almost universally acknowledged and don't need to be gone through again. Suffice it to say that Vanilla/Classic plays out much differently than Retail does.

While I appreciate those that say they're not interested in Classic because they have been there and done that where I do disagree with them is when they can't understand how anyone else would willingly play a 15 year old game. A "good" game is highly re-playable. I've probably played 1000 games of Civilazation's (versions 1-4 - stopped playing the franchise when they entirely re-worked it starting in Civ 5 - similar scenario to Retail vs Classic WoW for me). I play Solitaire and Crib (against an AI) too many times to count. Hell, and this would really age me, if somebody handed me a Mattel Electronic Football game I'd play that for hours on end. I also play on-line Golf games more than I can count. Each individual game is slightly different but they are otherwise static. Replaying Classic will be an otherwise "static" process but just like no 2 games of Crib are identical replaying Classic will be slightly different as well each and every day (and of course I'm completely ignoring the fact that those that make this argument are doing the same WQ's every day and running the same dungeons/raids hundreds and thousand times in Retail).

To end this little rant all I can say is I don't have rose coloured glasses and I know I can't re-create my Vanilla experience but I'm coming back for Classic only because I like that version of the game better (so much in fact that with the possible exception of 15th Anniversary Original AV) I will never play Retail again despite having access to it and being bored out of my mind waiting for Classic to start.

[MoanaLisa]

What a lot of people just can't seem to get through their heads is that, warts and all, the most compelling reason to play Classic is design / reward mechanism that adhere to "classic" game theory. I'm not going to rehash all the differences between Vanilla and Retail (and go on a tirade defending Classic / bashing Retail) because those differences are well documented and almost universally acknowledged and don't need to be gone through again. Suffice it to say that Vanilla/Classic plays out much differently than Retail does.

This is true. My feeling all along has been those with the expectation that the game will feel the same as the first time they went through it and that the community will be forced by circumstance and design to be much like it was when the game was new are likely to be disappointed.

I do agree there are many other reasons to play vanilla and those that played previously should be aware of them and embrace them instead of chasing after something that may not exist any longer. Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

For the record, I play Civ4, Civ5, lots of rogue-likes from the last 25 years and still enjoy dipping into the old Ultima games now then. I also play Chess and Scrabble. Doesn't get much older than Chess.

[Sensa1]

This is true. My feeling all along has been those with the expectation that the game will feel the same as the first time they went through it and that the community will be forced by circumstance and design to be much like it was when the game was new are likely to be disappointed.

I do agree there are many other reasons to play vanilla and those that played previously should be aware of them and embrace them instead of chasing after something that may not exist any longer. Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

For the record, I play Civ4, Civ5, lots of rogue-likes from the last 25 years and still enjoy dipping into the old Ultima games now then. I also play Chess and Scrabble. Doesn't get much older than Chess.

I agree with you that unrealistic expectations will lead inevitably to disappointment and those that'll truly enjoy Classic are the ones that approach the experience from a more reasonable perspective and just enjoy the journey.

It's even possible some of the hard-core veterans stop and smell the roses this time around and will enjoy it more as a result since they won't be taking it as seriously. That may sound counter intuitive but if you're not as concerned about you got what loot from what boss and realize, in retrospect, that it's all just virtual pixels there will probably be a lot less "drama" that takes away from the overall experience.

(Never had the patience for Chess... )

[cparle87]

they are NOT SEPARATE. go play retail

Aren't there a large population of pvp'ers on these very forums who wish it was and come here posting complaints about being 'forced' to raid to be competitive. Here's a little piece of information. For every idea you have that you think is good, there's someone else who thinks it sucks and the exact opposite idea is good. And neither of you are wrong.

[Kemsa]

I mean, he is right, people shouldnt return to a place where they literally need to triple they hard work to obtain just a 2% boost in their overall efficiency.
But also he was wrong, there is a reason why people still play private vanilla servers, why people play ragnarok online offcial servers where a card drop its literally 0.01% There is a reason why people buy loot boxes with horrible drop chances, people playing grinding and farming games, shootlers like warframe or borderlands.

Because people enjoy recieving gratifications tied to progresion on their character and when they get something that took a lot of time and hard work, they feel amazing, they dont need 1 titanforge item, they need minor power spikes every level, an item that they know they will use at least for an entire year/patch.

And let be honest, he doesnt need to eat his words, probably he is happy that people want Classic and its ging to be a success. And maybe he is playing too. SO its a win -win for him.

[Niwes]

I mean about the whole "You think you do, but you don't" thing.

Let me explain, I think everyone is missing the point with Classic, not just Blizz but also the community:

Going back to the vanilla experience, while it may be fun for a while, it's a stupid move, Blizzard probably has dedicated a lot of money (maybe not "new expansion" kind of money, but still it must have costed quite a bit) to recreate something that most people will abandon after a short time. Then they'll be able to say "See? We told you" and everyone will forget about it, when they could've easily done the right move.

People don't miss the actual vanilla game, they miss the experience: the slower leveling and gameplay, the harder difficulty, the sense of actually achieving things, the progression, etc.
But these are things that can be easily done or replicated in the current WoW, with some adjustements.

But going back to the full, brutal, boring vanilla experience? It's just crazy. I agree that a lot QOL improvements done over the years have taken away from the game, but a lot of them make a lot of sense and actually turn the game into a more enjoyable experience.
You can have a new expansions that shifts the gameplay more towards the classic experience but keeping improvements done over time when they make sense. They can even do this in a "Cataclysm" style xpac that changes the entire game, so the leveling experience is consistent with the top level content.

Instead they wasted resources on an experiment that will most likely fail and they just move on to give us another mediocre and bland xpac, no one will benefit.

Oh, and I'm sure that there will be some people perfectly happy with Classic, but quite honestly, they'll probably be a small minority of the playerbase.

what you miss here, is that blizzard isnt your friendly gamemaker company neighbor, right next door. it is a multibillion dollar company with clever marketing, analytics and financial experts. they make millions and billions with clever cash grab systems like tokens i.e. (you can read more about „they gain 7 bugs for every token ever passes the AH for doing nothing“ on the interwebz).

what has this to do with classic servers ?

look. blizzard has calculated all that stuff long before you heard them talking about classic servers. blizzard will not loose anything with classic servers. they invested in a small team that ported the stuff in a free scalable time frame. the money blizz invested in this, is a tip in comparisson to other giant projects they even cancelled. they will get that money back in the first 1-2 months of resubbing old players or interessted ppl, even if they quit after one month. so at the worst possible scenario, when they have not a single person, that not already paid for retail AND had not leaved retail anyway, they came out even with +/-0 after a month or so. if some ppl just pay sub for classic, or stay longer in retail for classic to see whats happening there or just play 2-3 months longer because of leveling to 60, blizzard gets profit.

in short: they simply can not loose (money) with classic. it is a safe deal. the only question is, HOW MUCH money they make, in a range from 10$ to 100.000.000$.

PS:
i agree to your oppinion when it comes down to the fact that they can implement the core game experience/elements in seperated parts in retail too. but blizz was always a heavily conservative company and they are very careful to keep catering to the modern retail community the right way. just copy the old game and its experience is way safer and cheaper than bring both experiences together in modern wow and risk loosing players.

[anon5123]

https://classic.wowhead.com/item=18422/head-of-onyxia

What do I get for the daily double, Alex?

If you read my original post, you'd see that I mentioned those items already.

Also, healers are not going to be rolling for head of ony because the caster ring from it is garbage.

Ony/Nef head, C'thun eye and KT phylactery, plus a few others, are the only items in the game that "40 people" are going to be wanting. For a vast majority of loot in the game, there's only going to be 5-8 people in the raid that are after it. Especially when you consider that for MC and BWL, tier gear drops normally, instead of being tied to a multi-class token. You're not going to have "40 people" rolling on those Rogue boots, only the 5-6 Rogues in your raid.

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Because people enjoy recieving gratifications tied to progresion on their character and when they get something that took a lot of time and hard work, they feel amazing, they dont need 1 titanforge item, they need minor power spikes every level, an item that they know they will use at least for an entire year/patch.

Yes, this is one of the core philosophies behind the original Dragon Quest, the granddaddy of JRPGs. The creator said that he made the game slow and grindy because he wanted it to feel rewarding, putting a lot of time and effort into something and then being rewarded with a level-up or a new piece of equipment.

Vanilla just has such a perfect work-to-reward ratio, and rewards actually feel impactful, unlike retail where 99% of the loot is just generic "main stat + 2nd stat" gear and you cannot notice the upgrade in the slightest unless it's a massive jump in ilvl.

[Mukind]

Aren't there a large population of pvp'ers on these very forums who wish it was and come here posting complaints about being 'forced' to raid to be competitive. Here's a little piece of information. For every idea you have that you think is good, there's someone else who thinks it sucks and the exact opposite idea is good. And neither of you are wrong.

no he's wrong

i'm not gonna comment on your "piece of informatino" lol

[Livnthedream]

no he's wrong

i'm not gonna comment on your "piece of informatino" lol

Your response justified the post you quoted.