anyone else think blizzard are gonna go all out next xp?

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

They need to get rid of the AP system. It was bad in Legion, its still bad in BFA. I'm very dissapointed that they brought it back. I was hoping Legion was the one and only time I'd see it - but I guess they have to validate development costs by adding it into at least 2 expansions regardless of how shit it is.

I actually think the system is fine, it was the implementation in BFA that was garbage.

Like I'd been asking for some form of max-level character progression for multiple expansions. Something to match up with EQ2's Alternate Advancement or ToR's Legacy System. They made some odd calls with it in Legion (Knowledge costing Resources, an infinitely scaling "final trait," more traits = more stats on the weapon) but I thought the AP system there did exactly what it was supposed to do.

BFA they took all that away and turned it into a chore. That you had to do to unlock the full potential of your gear. That you could fall way behind on. And then they made the best way to farm Azerite be your weekly island chore.

[Benomatic]

BFA is the worst expac they have ever made and it isn't close. Uncapped grinds casino rng azerite that can't actually be farmed and leaves you at the mercy or yet another rng machine islands. Yeah it's trash but raids are decent.

Then I guess the worst expansion is my second favourite then

[Magnagarde]

Legion had A LOT more rng than BfA and a lot more time consuming chores.

I don't disagree. What I compared was instanced content, but yes, the RNG was horrible primarily because of the legendaries, not to mention the paragon chest mount RNG and other stuff. That said, it wasn't horrible for anyone not doing high-end PvE content because legendaries didn't impact casual players as much.

[d00mh4cker]

Next expansion will have more RNG, more loot, more of everything.
If they can get you to keep subbing even though you hate the game, they are winning.

Addiction is great.

[valky94]

Nope, not at all. IN fact I think 9.0 will be worse quality then BFA. Blizzard is a mess. The morale there is low after mass firings, then re hiring the exact same positions at lower pay . Activision wants them putting all of their efforts into new games. I dont think the current dev team is able to put out a really good expansion . So many things need fixing that it is bound to take away from the over all quality.

I have a feeling 9.0 is the last full expansion before they pull the plug on retail and just coast with Classic , TBC, Wrath etc servers but with new cash shop items
.

sigh, they fired people only that worked in CS, no devs were fired/artists or people who worked on games were fired

[Cien]

part of me thinks that classic has the opportunity almost for blizz to do a hard reset on their journey so far. an alternate timeline if you will, they've written an utterly ridiculous story since WoD, and this could be a chance for them to do the story as it should've been, or perhaps still, just cycle servers up till wotlk. cata or mop as per playerbase wishes. nostalgia and the game as it was is what will keep people subbed

[Revamp Man]

If Classic turns out to be a success it might even take more resources from retail.

This might start a trend of making Classic/TBC/Wrath.... servers which will take away from retail development.

This argument is borderline retarded

It's like saying that the original cast of mighty ducks won't have enough time to work on other projects because the studio is releasing a high def version


Retail team is entirely separate from classic and has waaaaaaayyyyyy more aspects


OT: given the pattern the next expansion will be good. I'm just hoping they aren't as bitchy and stubborn as they were with early BFA

You can't defend their decisions on removing paragon caches after legion. You can't defend the m+ cache change with azerite early on when they told the community "it works the same as in legion so you can't complain" even though the system essentially changed without legiondaries

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I don't disagree. What I compared was instanced content, but yes, the RNG was horrible primarily because of the legendaries, not to mention the paragon chest mount RNG and other stuff. That said, it wasn't horrible for anyone not doing high-end PvE content because legendaries didn't impact casual players as much.

At least in legion alts weren't as much of a pain

Like the netherlight crucible was account bound
Essences....are not

[Army Dreamer]

gonna go all out

have to go all in

I'm confused...

[Magnagarde]

At least in legion alts weren't as much of a pain

Like the netherlight crucible was account bound
Essences....are not

Legion's content would usually get eased down the line and BfA indeed misses that; the only thing they've implemented so far is the weekly easing of AP requirements, but that's insufficient in my opinion. It was also pretty nice to progress with alts in Legion because of the abundance of gold you could make.

[Revamp Man]

Legion's content would usually get eased down the line and BfA indeed misses that; the only thing they've implemented so far is the weekly easing of AP requirements, but that's insufficient in my opinion. It was also pretty nice to progress with alts in Legion because of the abundance of gold you could make.

Plus every alt was different
Class mounts
Unique followers

Sure legendaries were a pain but you could essentially measure when they were coming

I think 8.3 will have account wide essences and hopefully tradable expupsom

[gutnbrg]

why would they go all out when they can do a shit job and still make as much money?

[Revamp Man]

I think any drastic changes if they are coming may have to wait for the expansion after the next. They've already been working on the next expansion for quite some time now so it may not be feasible to dial it up to 11 in response to the backlash BfA got.

If I had to make a wild guess then I'd say the next expansion is going to be mediocre at best and more likely the same level as BfA. Then the expansion after that will be basically one big callback to Warcraft 3 with larger changes to the systems of the game. Could be amazing or could just be them trying to cash in on nostalgia and hype with no substance.

If they do announce big changes for the next expansion one concern I'd have is that they've made these changes at the last minute in reaction to BfA reception and didn't give themselves time to flesh out the systems and it'll be a clunky unsatisfying mess that takes the entire expansion to fix.

so let's not pretend that blizzard doesn't pay attention to at least some of the backlash that they get in the sense that they have her constantly about how classes are boring and they've known that and it's not going to take a lot to fix that situation

they have also heard about how the global cooldown is a terrible change and they need to readjust that and it doesn't take wizard forever to make changes like this it just seems that way because they're pretty stubborn and proud in fact if you look at a lot of the changes that they have had to make between now and the beginning of this expansion every one of them was originally defended to the death by blizzard

there were changes that the community made an out roar about that you would have blizzard blues and developers straight up defending saying that it's not that bad and it's okay and then when it came out and the community had the uproar and it got mainstream they eventually said that they agree and it's really bad trying not to show that they were just essentially proud jackasses that didn't want to admit when they were wrong

I am optimistic in the sense that this next expansion will be interesting if they bring back a lot of things that they took some classes however playing among there's not really a lot that they can bring back and there's not really a lot that I'm missing but looking at other classes it's kind of terrible

this is also an expansion where one would expect a brand new class to also be introduced and if they do this right since they don't have to worry about what they did with legion which was class specific quests fortissimo different weapon systems then maybe just maybe we can get meaningful changes between now and the expansion release and have it be meaningful and the new class along with all of the current classes not being complete s***

[kaminaris]

BFA is the worst expac they have ever made and it isn't close. Uncapped grinds casino rng azerite that can't actually be farmed and leaves you at the mercy or yet another rng machine islands. Yeah it's trash but raids are decent.

Uncapped casino has been in Legion, not in BfA. You clearly didn't play Legion if you think so. Also you can save for bis azerite and buy it. You couldn't do that in legion.

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I actually think the system is fine, it was the implementation in BFA that was garbage.

Like I'd been asking for some form of max-level character progression for multiple expansions. Something to match up with EQ2's Alternate Advancement or ToR's Legacy System. They made some odd calls with it in Legion (Knowledge costing Resources, an infinitely scaling "final trait," more traits = more stats on the weapon) but I thought the AP system there did exactly what it was supposed to do.

BFA they took all that away and turned it into a chore. That you had to do to unlock the full potential of your gear. That you could fall way behind on. And then they made the best way to farm Azerite be your weekly island chore.

Ah no, you can ignore AP in BfA, you couldn't ignore it in legion as artifact was overpowered compared to BfA one. In Legion Having +2 levels of AP meant upgrading whole ilvl by 1. And gave you +1% od overall DPS. If anywhere, it was Legion that had wrong implementation of AP. It's fine now. Not best, but manageable.

[Kyriani]

Blizzard should be going all out on every xpac... not resting on their laurels and phoning it in every other xpac.

[kaminaris]

I don't disagree. What I compared was instanced content, but yes, the RNG was horrible primarily because of the legendaries, not to mention the paragon chest mount RNG and other stuff. That said, it wasn't horrible for anyone not doing high-end PvE content because legendaries didn't impact casual players as much.

And this is where you were wrong, I was raiding in Phoenix (it is called PhoeniXD now) guild back then, some minor top ~200 guild back then. We were doing all older raids LFR + Normal + Heroic + Mythic raids because there was a chance to get legendary. It also did impact casual players, as they didn't have a chance to get better leggos without farming m+ or doing some garbage content. Also legendaries were not like we have today.

So

Mediocre azerite gear vs Top azerite gear = 2% of dps at best
mediocre legendary vs Top Legendary = 10% dps at best.

It was a clear difference. With no way to simply save for best one. You had to pray to RNGesus almost whole expansion.

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Next expansion will have more RNG, more loot, more of everything.
If they can get you to keep subbing even though you hate the game, they are winning.

Addiction is great.

We have less RNG that we had in Legion. Point defeated. Titanforging was nerfed. And you can buy BIS azerite gear, you couldn't do that in legion with legendaries.

[Revamp Man]

And this is where you were wrong, I was raiding in Phoenix (it is called PhoeniXD now) guild back then, some minor top ~200 guild back then. We were doing all older raids LFR + Normal + Heroic + Mythic raids because there was a chance to get legendary. It also did impact casual players, as they didn't have a chance to get better leggos without farming m+ or doing some garbage content. Also legendaries were not like we have today.

So

Mediocre azerite gear vs Top azerite gear = 2% of dps at best
mediocre legendary vs Top Legendary = 10% dps at best.

It was a clear difference. With no way to simply save for best one. You had to pray to RNGesus almost whole expansion.

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We have less RNG that we had in Legion. Point defeated. Titanforging was nerfed. And you can buy BIS azerite gear, you couldn't do that in legion with legendaries.

with the amount of mythic plus dungeons that you have to run in order to be able to buy a single piece of specific azerite gear you would have gotten at least three legendaries in legion

and the difference between the best azerite traits and the worst azerite traits is much larger than 2% and you know this so you are either being willfully ignorant or you are just trying to complain about how legion was so much worse than BFA which is incorrect because at least in legion character progression wasn't such a pain in the ass yes there was RNG but you were guaranteed a legendary at least once every week if you did everything and if any method guild out there was doing LFR + normal + heroic + mythic of every single rain throughout the game they were pathetically retarded and misled because it was common knowledge that once the next tier of content was out the first tear of content had the chance to drop legendaries nerfed and with bad luck protection it was much better to simply run heroic of the raid and then do the next one

hack farming high-level mythic plus was I think the most efficient way to get a legendary and if you were doing that so much then you would already have your best in slot legendaries halfway through the expansion like I did and I was in some mediocre ass heroic guild

[kaminaris]

with the amount of mythic plus dungeons that you have to run in order to be able to buy a single piece of specific azerite gear you would have gotten at least three legendaries in legion

and the difference between the best azerite traits and the worst azerite traits is much larger than 2% and you know this so you are either being willfully ignorant or you are just trying to complain about how legion was so much worse than BFA which is incorrect because at least in legion character progression wasn't such a pain in the ass yes there was RNG but you were guaranteed a legendary at least once every week if you did everything and if any method guild out there was doing LFR + normal + heroic + mythic of every single rain throughout the game they were pathetically retarded and misled because it was common knowledge that once the next tier of content was out the first tear of content had the chance to drop legendaries nerfed and with bad luck protection it was much better to simply run heroic of the raid and then do the next one

hack farming high-level mythic plus was I think the most efficient way to get a legendary and if you were doing that so much then you would already have your best in slot legendaries halfway through the expansion like I did and I was in some mediocre ass heroic guild

Not even close, you had softcap at the beginning, with some people pulling crazy numbers of completed M+ dungeons and were still on 4 leggos.

And even with doing M+ (I did at around 10-20 M+ per week back then), Raids in ALL difficulties, Older raids at ALL difficulties, all emissaries I still got roughly 1 legendary per month.

Now with doing 1 M+ per week, lets say 14 you will have 20600 TR per week. That equals 82400 per month.
Scrapping 315 can give you 365 TR, and you have roughly 1 emissary per 4-5 days. In worst case in month you will get 2190 TR
Running HC once can yield you 1-2 Azerite pieces (usually), Those give 2k so you can roughly get 8000 TR in a month with clearing only HC.

I don't even need to calculate Mythic pieces as they give 10k.

You can also farm manapearls, upgrade them to 400 and scrap them for 200 TR, You can pull a LOT of these, but assuming you just do dailies you will have around 200TR per 2 DAYS. So = 3000 TR per month

If we add this up: 95590 TR per month. So you buy your BiS after 2 months. And if you are raiding mythic, there is pretty high chance you get good ones from raid itself.

With: Doing HC each week, doing dailies on nazjatar, doing emissaries JUST for azerite piece, doing ONE M+ per week.

I did get my bis boots in the middle of The nighthold. While we are ~month in 8.2 and I have all 445 pretty good azerite pieces already. No luck involved, 1/5 the effort.

Please don't even compare garbage legendary system to azerite gear.


And yes mediocre azerite gear vs top azerite gear is JUST a minor difference.

Lets compare bis one for me:
1x Baleful + Undulating Tides = 1846 + 1240 dps = 3086
Now mediocre (most of them have either Undulating tides or baleful)
1x Baleful + Unstable Catalyst = 1846 + 845 dps = 2691

Difference: 395 DPS

Now comparing it to ~30K dps I usually do, It is barely 1.31(6)%. difference.

I forgot to mention, did you even check the odds of getting good piece from gambling?

For me, chance to get head with baleful: 50%
chance to get shoulders with baleful: 50%
chance to get chest with baleful: 50%

Roughly 33% chance per item slot to get something bad.

And 100% chance from mythic raid to get really good ones.
Oh and there is no chance to get baleful + Undulating tides anyway as such piece doesn't exist.

[Alcsaar]

I actually think the system is fine, it was the implementation in BFA that was garbage.

Like I'd been asking for some form of max-level character progression for multiple expansions. Something to match up with EQ2's Alternate Advancement or ToR's Legacy System. They made some odd calls with it in Legion (Knowledge costing Resources, an infinitely scaling "final trait," more traits = more stats on the weapon) but I thought the AP system there did exactly what it was supposed to do.

BFA they took all that away and turned it into a chore. That you had to do to unlock the full potential of your gear. That you could fall way behind on. And then they made the best way to farm Azerite be your weekly island chore.

Gear fits the niche of advancing your character just fine. AP system further desensitizes rolling alts, which is awful for people like myself who enjoy playing more than one char. I don't like having to do world quests every day to try to keep up on AP on my main, i hate even the thought of having to do it on my alt.

[Swnem]

That is a hilarious joke. Say wod was better than legion? Oh you want gear, materials for professions, ah? Garrison got you covered. Wod was a horrible expansion and people knew it was the blueprints for Legion. AP thing was annoying after you finish your artifact but before it was nice getting that little bit and get some neat abilities and acted like a second talent tree. What did wod offer? A selfie camera that blizzard said was content? Pitiful dailies that gave apexis crystals? Same can apply to legion world quests but it had a better system and a reason to go out in the world. Wod was a horrible expansion lost tons of players and was rushed and cut to work on a far better expansion. Things I would have changed is the Wf/Tf system to go back to ToT version and removal of legendaries. Felt like they butchered the name legendary with the slot machine version that was implemented into legion.

What? You think cause you didn't have ore and herbs in your garrison that Legion was better? WoD got cut short cause of the cancellation of titan and the internal folding to the wow team and coaching necessary. Only guys like you think it was cause the players said it was bad. Their scheduale got off-set and they had to cut on WoD to get back on scheadule.
What did WoD offer? I told you already. It offered fun and sense of accomplishment. Fun classes and an end to your gear journey. The end-game was satisfying.
If your measure of a good expansion is simply ammount of content, then yes, WoD is not the best. But raw fun and accomplishment sense in end-game, it beat the hell out of what came next. You still don't see when it was they screwed you over, it's kind of sad, but i don't really care.

If you feel Legion was great and WoD was trash, then you should love BfA, cause it's more of the same. Enjoy the hell out of the infinite hamster wheel. You deserve it.

[MrLachyG]

I have been thinking about this for a couple years now
Its blizzard either NOT willing or NOT able to dish out the resources needed for a banging xpack like legion.
So the future of wow seems to be a lazy expack followed by a content filled xpack followed by another lazy one etc

i think this expac would've been a lot better if they had replaced azerite gear with tier sets, not done a whole lot of class pruning and used the current essence system from day one. the content itself has been fine, coming out at a pace fairly similar to Legion. it has just been the execution that lacked a bit but you cannot argue that they didn't make it a bit better in 8.2