What city would you like to see for homeless races e.g. NElves/forsaken/HElves etc

[Bildur]

inddeed, like al ot of cities and a lot of u nique racial architecture.


Night elves sharing with worgen wouldn't solve those problems, nor somehow legitimise Gilneas.. what Wow needs is a new philosophy or approach that utilises cities. People love great cities for their races, each race has it's unique style and several variations of it for large urban centres, for rural etc, they wanna see more and use it.

my proposal: Build up a zone and capital and tie it into race campaigns. Do so over several expansions and patches, with the racial campaign extending the lore of each race incrementally.

You have your racial hearth and a lot lore. Imagine each core race beineg the centre or capital for that race's subpraces and the citiy they built has a place for their sub-races and their architecture, and as time goes, you see the race flourish in its city and capital zone

That would have been so cool.

I can't see how it could happen now, they should have started that at launch (but sadly they didn't).
But at least give the existing capitols a much needed facelift (in terms of graphics and maybe layout) and make them ... so sorry about this ... great again lol

And of course make something new for the "homeless races" such as Nightelves, Worgens, Undeads - and I'd argue Goblins and Gnomes as well

[baskev]

What about Norhtrend in Icecrown or Howling Fjord? Or Kalimdore in Theramore?

I know someone who thought Suramar was ideal for night elves, void elves and nightborne, but if that is a no share area, then yes I think something like Zin'Azshari or Surmar would be ideal. Why do you say old Suramar ? And why old Suramar (if there is such a thing) but not actual Suramar? "Old Suramar" was no different from the Suramar you see, except it is now at the bottom of the sea in ruins - unless you are thinking of the villages and towns like Meredil and Tel'anor - but those aren't old Suramar, theyu are towns and villages like Bashal'aran and Ameth'aran in darkshore.

Icecrown: still controlled by the lich king and he still has power their. So some of the undead may be corrupted back to scourge. And not much there.

As for howling fjord , to close to icecrown ( semi same reason), blue dragon flight. And near the bug capitol. So not a smart move.

Thermare: Mana bomb might have corrputed the area so that first needs to be cleaned. Could be a nice location. But if the factions still excist...that might be a less smart move. But still a nice location. Would also make sense for a alliance undead race.

Why do i say old suramar. I said >LIKE<. meaning build/have the looks like the city. the location could be ashenvale, darkshore area.

but in short like my first post:

void elves/high elves: A city that looks like suramar/ zin'szhari. Location would be either "recliamend/conquered" silvermoon. Or ashenvale area ( dire maul)

Night elves: The ones who want a world tree, only have 1 option. Mount hyial. For the ones who want a city. Ashenvale/darkshore again.

Forsaken: lordaroan if they could clean it. Or ( my more favorite) stratholm.

[ravenmoon]

That would have been so cool.

I can't see how it could happen now, they should have started that at launch (but sadly they didn't).
But at least give the existing capitols a much needed facelift (in terms of graphics and maybe layout) and make them ... so sorry about this ... great again lol

And of course make something new for the "homeless races" such as Nightelves, Worgens, Undeads - and I'd argue Goblins and Gnomes as well

I know right, but they NEED these cool features.. how cool can you make things now? They're running out of material and features.

this could be a major feature.. that each race starts building up their city.. some may have to build from scratch, others already have a great city so can focus more on the zone and other aspects of their city.. e.g. you expand your existing city a bit, tbut more development goes inot the surrounding towns and village, cos what the project does is that it builds the capital zone.

then you use it for all kinds of things. Firstly it's the race campaign headquarters.. so all the race campaigns stuff is given there. It's opening bit is the sanctuary area.. every player starts with this, this is why the city is like Order halls instead of Garrisons, cos everyone would share the sanctuary are... what would bvary for each person is the progress they make as they build.. and by build I mean more unlocking..like Garrisons unlocked bigger buildings, instead here youwoudl be unlocking more of the city.;

the idea is the developers would have too much work to fully design 13 huge cities (okay ifyou count that Stormwin, orgirmmar, suramar and Zuldazar are already built, that would mean about 2-3 new cities for homeless races, but therest is expanding existing cities and building towns)..

But to make them the size and scope of places like Suramar and Zuldazar..takes time, but if that is done incrementally eveyr patch, iwhere they add more to the city which players then unlock with their resources.


Boositing your city boosts your race, so you get NPC followers, soldiers andt he likes that can do different htings onyour campgain, including accompany you as well as mission tables.

Unlocking new wings in your city and zone adds new quests, all things about yoru race can come out, including diplomatic ties with your sub-races... wanna find the night elves relations with the nightboren, highborne, Moonguard, Illidari, emereald worgen, faronids etc - all this is told here. Same for every race.. the core race starts acting like a leader for the race, with the allied race quite prominent and helping them out or their friend.

the city also has power. Every race has things that empower them. For night elves they have 3, an Arcane well - either the Well of eternity or a new well that forms in a good story 9say a star fell to the earth and ruptured a vein creating a powerful new well, however highborne, priests and druids all came together to stabilise it, then bless the waters and they grew silver white.. called it the starwell and is their new well they also have a world tree.. now they can use Nordrassil or Shaldarssil, this depends on hwere they will settle, Broken isles or Kalimdor - this tree connects them tot eh emerald dream and is another 2nd tier of power. The 3rd tier of power could be the font of Elune tha t empowers both the Night warrior and the arcane warrior of Elune refelecting the dark side and light side of the moon, from Full moon, to total eclipse - just like in the encounter in the Catehdral of eternal night.

This is the 3rd tier of power in patch 3, that extends the system..just like Artifact powers got 2 extensions..remember the first in 7.2 that add a 4th tier of trait to the earlier 4 ranks but also introducesd a whole new set of traits too. then again 7.l3 the netherlight crucible added new functionatily to the artefact weapon that also had a tier grad system you progressed through. Azerite also had 2 upgrades, just not as exciting as the legion ones.


Here we are using 3 power sources for the night elves to give an example of each tier, intro level ofr them is a new well, patch expansion like 7.2 instead of adding traits starts another power source, this time their world tree emerald dream connection and the final is the Font of Elune..

each race would have something too.. this is how your class is empowerd for the new "artefact " system of that expansion.. except this one gives individual spec trees and also stuff that boosts your racials, even gives you additional racials.


What they could do is allow this stystem for the next 3 expansions, and each race each expansion gains a new development. So if the night elves gain the Star Well or Well of Eternity in the opening expansion, the second expansion is where they Utilise the World Tree (Shaladrassil or Nordrassil), and in the 3rd expansion is where they Utilise the Font of Elune - this gives enough material for class development across 3 expansions, rather than them resetting it each expansion and re-inventing the wheel. after 3 expansions they can come up with something entirely new

3 expansions will also be enough time to grow the cities into something incredible especially if each patch throughout the 3 adds something.. it also gives enough time for racial campaigns to really explore a lot of lore and develop a lot of lore for races, building the up while at the same time the main quests of the expansion are taking place, and the races have a reaction to it.

Campaigns can follow key events for each race. Going to orcs, you will explore a lot of stuff from WoD that should have been, stuff with Thrall, reconciling seeing Draenor as an orc vs outland etc.

night elves its easy, the elgion 's final defeat and ucre to addiction changes a lot and allows them to return to their original mandate of children of the stars but with a sense of people who will still step up to guard their world in crisis, but no longer being "that's all they are about", so we get to see a bit more of what the kaldorei were originally like in character and purpose before arcane addiction- the period where they were excelling at everything and were noble coupled in with the hard edge they developed through 10k years of long vigil, arcane study or demon hunting.

Each race will have something bbased on past and current affairs, things that should have been explored but weren't and new things too.

[Mace]

Icecrown: still controlled by the lich king and he still has power their. So some of the undead may be corrupted back to scourge. And not much there.

As for howling fjord , to close to icecrown ( semi same reason), blue dragon flight. And near the bug capitol. So not a smart move.

Thermare: Mana bomb might have corrputed the area so that first needs to be cleaned. Could be a nice location. But if the factions still excist...that might be a less smart move. But still a nice location. Would also make sense for a alliance undead race.

Why do i say old suramar. I said >LIKE<. meaning build/have the looks like the city. the location could be ashenvale, darkshore area.

but in short like my first post:

void elves/high elves: A city that looks like suramar/ zin'szhari. Location would be either "recliamend/conquered" silvermoon. Or ashenvale area ( dire maul)

Night elves: The ones who want a world tree, only have 1 option. Mount hyial. For the ones who want a city. Ashenvale/darkshore again.

Forsaken: lordaroan if they could clean it. Or ( my more favorite) stratholm.

Well night elves have Shaladrassil also a world tree on the broken isles, so they have options, - but that is more a druid order thing than the entire night elves.

Remember the entire night elves were involved with Nordrassil because it guarded the Well of Eternity, the arcane well was the main focus, not the tree, except you were a druid, then the ancients and the green dragonflight in the Emerald dream which nordrassil (thorugh its blessing from Ysera) helped them enter the dream. So that part of the night elves is very much druidic order focused. The priests don't care about the druid works, they guarded the well and were the main night elf society, they fought the wars and did the patrolling while the druids did their own order focused work. After the long vigil ended, yous ee some night elves return to the arcane as soon as the Highborne are accepted back, they also aren't foucsed on a tree, but they would be focused on the Well it stands on.

If they move to broken isles, I imagine the druids would be in Val'shaarah, the highborne in Azsuna, but the main capital would be Suramar where all the orders converge before going out to their various different habitats like Moonguard stronghold, Warden Vault/Towers, Black Rook Hold, Cathedral of Eternal Night, Fel ravaged broken shore. etc.

As for void elves.. I think it is in appropriate for them to pioneer Zin'Azshari/Suramar type structures, because that's more a night elf thing and they are Thalassians, I would imagine a fusing between Blood elf and naga architecture - because naga architecture has a void influence, so swap the coral /sea underpinning

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

What are you guys saying? I don’t get it - do you not want the night elves to have their architecture? Do you not like it? Why the push to have something else all the time?

I am saying that the kaldorei have moved past their Empire Architecture and now use more of a Druidic Style, which represents their modern values -the only stone building in any semblance of their old empire architecture being the Temple of the Moon in Darnassus.

Otherwise, NE's have consistently used Druidic Architecture on all their modern buildings. Darnassus itself was 3/4 built in that style. Simply put, I don't think nor want Night Elves should architecturally return to their Empire days; they have moved on.

Should the Alliance Highborne repair/build a new city? I'd love that, but the Kaldorei as a society and a culture are far removed from what they were 10k years ago, far removed from an architectural style created in service of their Highborne.

Night Elves have their modern archytectural style, and it's the druidic; everything after the Sundering they have built has been on that style, their modern cities too, their capital was 3/4 this style.

Create a new city on the style of Zin'Aszhari would be senseless, untrue to what the Night Elves are now. That was who they were 10k years ago.

- - - Updated - - -

@MyWholeLifeIsThunder

look at it this way, there is no such thing as nightborne architecture technically, they've done nothing new from their night elven origins in terms of architecture. It is similar to blood elves or void elves - the architecture didn't change when the high elves become blood elves or become void elves. When we say blood elf architecture we pretty much mean high elf architecture.

Again, hard disagree; I have told you about how you can see the arches outside the bubble remaining on the old style, implying that the architecture, as the fashions, obviously changed on 10k years. Thalassian architecture didn't remain the same from their Highborne origins, it evolved, so did the Suramarian.

It's not like it was when the high elves came to be, when they changed everything from the night elf format - but even with all the changes they made, you would still see similarities between the two - which is why they are Elves and not a completely different kind of race like Draenei.

Exactly, you can see the ressemblance, this is obvious as both modern Suramarian and Thalassian come from the same Highborne architecture, but they have both obviously changed with time and become distinct. Again, I believe that Modern Suramarian atchitecture is simply not the same as it was 10k years ago -yes, it could have had its own quirks that separated it from other Highborne styles- but everything points out they were all on the same line.

But while all the other cities became ruins, Suramar remained a living city, thus evolved; that's why everything else outside the bubble looks different. Fashion changes.

- - - Updated - - -

Another way you can verify current Suramar is 10kj year old Suramar is by looking at the Cathedral of Eternal Night, it has the same ornate structure of Suramar Palace and is supposed to be like a twin tower thing, you had the other half of the city surrounding the temple, this sunk beneath the waves.

The bit that survived is what you experience in 7.0, and it hasn't changed. It's more ornate because it is supposed to be the jewel of the night elf empire, as well as the HQ for the Order of Elune.
[LIST][*][*]Perhaps a better wayt o approach it is to ask yourself why you think this can't be night elven? Is it:[*]Bbecause it looks fancy? [*]Because the nightborne are in it? [*]Because it is more embroidered than anything you've seen for the night elves, and only the Thalassians have things as fancy as this.

Yet every structure surrounding the Cathedral is on the old Highborne style. between choosing:

-The implication of the structures right outside the bubble looking 10k years old, as well as the other structures in Suramar as a zone and the Broken Shore.

or

-The Cathedral reusing the Nighthold aesthetics because it was easier to come up with a unique tower to add the fel.

I'll chose the former.

Regardless, it's also possible that the Nighthold and the Cathedral had a more uniquely Suramarian style even back then, but the implication is clear the rest of the city would have looked more like the Highborne Architecture of the times; which again, are actually close; the thing is that in modern Suramar there are also things that would appear newer.

[*]Because night elf ruins don't look like that?

Basically; Every set of ruins -updated with graphical advances- has shown us that the Highborne Architectural style was rather homogeneous, that shared an overall aesthetic. Suramar looking so different wouldn't be in line with this.

The idea that the city simply changed aesthetically (as the Shal'dorei did) makes a lot more sense.

Suramar doesn't look "better" or "fancier", it just looks like 10k years passed and fashion and aesthetics changed.

Personal Opinion: Suramar is beautiful, but errs on the side of tacky, of too much going on, of a city forced to build on top of itself.

[Khaza-R]

Night Elves

I think it would be cool if they paid homage to the original concept for the Night Elf capital. Have them find the lost island of Kalidar which holds an abandoned city of the Kaldorei.

Forsaken

I like the idea of them moving into the ruins of another city. Stratholme seems like a good choice. Or maybe Tyr's Hand. Otherwise I could also see them building some type of new Forsaken style Necropolis.

[Mace]

Create a new city on the style of Zin'Aszhari would be senseless, untrue to what the Night Elves are now. That was who they were 10k years ago.

That's really b/s because who night elves are now is a combination of both their pasts, what you're saying is night elves have nothing to do with anything that came before the Long vigil and anything that came after WC3, because in wow, night elves have embraced both eras of their past..

Why would it be false to them to have cities they built to live in, and also have forests where forest homes are?

They don't need new architecture, they have city architecture and forest architecture, use city architecture for cities, its already designed as night elf cities. Suramar, Zin'Ashari are all night elf cities, no need to re-invent the wheel, they also have forest settlements, use that for their forest zones. I don't have a problem there.

[ravenmoon]

Again, hard disagree; I have told you about how you can see the arches outside the bubble remaining on the old style, implying that the architecture, as the fashions, obviously changed on 10k years.

You are assuming every city looked identical for that to be true, and that the night elves wasted resources they didn't have trapped in a bubble just to alter the aesthetic of a city. Is this because you can't accept that night elves could produce what you see in Suramar.. you're convinced it's more something a race like blood elves can do right? If its, you've not gotten night elves.

Every city would have variations. Look at how Eldre'thalas doesn't look much like either Zin'Azsahri nor Darnassus nor Suramar, what is your explanation for that? The developers are showing you a highly advanced and culture kaldorei civilizaiton that had all manners of wonders. Suramar is called the Jewel of the night elf empire 10,000 years ago, it's going to be something special for night elves to refer to a city as the jewel of the empire.

And the nightborne are portrayed as the sort of empire elves that love things just the way they have been in the elegance and grandeur that their great empire was because they "night elves" are so special.

Thalassian architecture didn't remain the same from their Highborne origins, it evolved, so did the Suramarian.

Yes it did. Because whole sale changes occurred to them. They weren't frozen in bubble with the last remaining piece of their empire they believed) carrying on their kaldorei ways with limited resources,b ut continuing in their idyllic paradise of a city. Stangnating really, despite some magical advancements (which quests show us were slow) And it makes snese, you're in a bubble, not challenged by hardly anything oor anyone, you have zero motivation to change. They didn't change themselves physically to nightborne either, the energy of the well they wrere feeding on changed them by distortion.. they're going to look different, skinnier, gaunt, darker.


contrast this tot he Thalssians, who 's origins spend 3,000 years in a long vigil, cut off from arcane power, in ruins, most of their empire's knowledge lost, then they get exiled for tyring to change the communities current outlook. They are changed by the exile, they travel through many places, change everything, lifestyle, life cycle, religion, culture, they meet the changes in the outside world the other night elf groups are in isolation from. Thalassians are not in isolation, they are forced ot interact with the world. Everythig is going to change. Even their skin colour changes, their main focus switches from the night stars and moon to the sun - ofc their architecture is going to change, they've changed dramatically.

The nightborne, haven't changed at all except for looking different and being in exactly the same state for the last 10-11,000 years. it is altogether conceivable nothing has changed, and the videos of Surmar back it up, they didn't film an "older " version city, becuae this is not what they are showing. they are showing a pristine ngihte lf empire city, it's going to defeat the point if the city has changed over the millennia. so what they do is they make the well change the apeparnace of the people slightly but nothing else has changed, culture is exactly the same, the city in all its splendour the same beautiful wonder it was, so you all can see what the best of the night elves cities looked like. Zin'Azshari may have ben the msost glorious, but Zuramar was the jewel, the prettiest, and they show you that.

Exactly, you can see the ressemblance, this is obvious as both modern Suramarian and Thalassian come from the same Highborne architecture, but they have both obviously changed with time and become distinct. Again, I believe that Modern Suramarian atchitecture is simply not the same as it was 10k years ago -yes, it could have had its own quirks that separated it from other Highborne styles- but everything points out they were all on the same line.

But while all the other cities became ruins, Suramar remained a living city, thus evolved; that's why everything else outside the bubble looks different. Fashion changes.

Are yousaying that the city must have evolved because of time? You are using metrics we measure our change by while not accounting for the entirely unique situation these elves find themselves in that we don't have.. immortal lives or near immortal lives, quite content to stay in a buble feeling safe from the horrific demons, and loving their ways and traditions so much nothing changes.

Also limited on physical resources, even magic needs to get the stuf from somewhere, and it's just not there. When they run out of clothes they have to conjure their armor, conjured stuff isn't real stuff, it lasts as long as you have the energy to make it last, which is why when they whither to nightfallen they're literally in rags - no mana to maintain the façade of clothes that long since stopped eing real while the original garments faded and limited rsources to make more hence conjuring.

Yet every structure surrounding the Cathedral is on the old Highborne style. between choosing:

-The implication of the structures right outside the bubble looking 10k years old, as well as the other structures in Suramar as a zone and the Broken Shore.

or

-The Cathedral reusing the Nighthold aesthetics because it was easier to come up with a unique tower to add the fel.

I'll chose the former.

Regardless, it's also possible that the Nighthold and the Cathedral had a more uniquely Suramarian style even back then, but the implication is clear the rest of the city would have looked more like the Highborne Architecture of the times; which again, are actually close; the thing is that in modern Suramar there are also things that would appear newer.



Basically; Every set of ruins -updated with graphical advances- has shown us that the Highborne Architectural style was rather homogeneous, that shared an overall aesthetic. Suramar looking so different wouldn't be in line with this.

The idea that the city simply changed aesthetically (as the Shal'dorei did) makes a lot more sense.

Suramar doesn't look "better" or "fancier", it just looks like 10k years passed and fashion and aesthetics changed.

Personal Opinion: Suramar is beautiful, but errs on the side of tacky, of too much going on, of a city forced to build on top of itself.

While you could be right, for the reasons I have stated above, I don't feel this is/was the intention regarding Suramar. It's not the city made like this by the people as nightborne, it was made like this by the people as night elves, the nightborne state comes later, the city doesn't change, it is just maintained.

Now intenral deocations may vary and change over time, but again, the quests in Surmar with theilor kinda show you they haven't really. The temple ofelune is ruined, a lot of the cool stuff wuld be gone from it. internally it would reflect more the priesthood, but you can see many similarities in the Cathedral with the stuff in the city, however you will have differences.

THe idea that the city changed aesthetically, is far leass plausible and defeats the object of the story of the shal'dorei.. it's not there to be a new city of the shal'droei, it's their to show you a kaldorei way of life at the heigh of their power, The crescent moons and kaldorei sflags and symbol are all over the place, these people up to 7.2 consider themselves Shal'dorei Kaldorei, just like the highborne are Quel'dorei Kaldorei - this only cease to be the case when they join the horde and thalyssra is determined to embrace a new life and change, and this time it won't be a kladorei one, because it would be differnet than what they have "stagnated" according to her over the last 10k years, which is all kaldorei pre-sundering culture.

When they build new stuff, I won't be surprised if the style is kalodrei, but won't be surprised if it is something new.

The makeshift tents of the nightborne look different, we haven't seen such amongst the kaldorei, but then we haven't seen that sort of setting for them, so they could be xactly the same.

Who knows.

[Dellis0991]

I think they should move to Outland. Both nelves and helves got their settlements there : )

Isn't that place dying?.....oh....oh I see what you did there.

[baskev]

Well night elves have Shaladrassil also a world tree on the broken isles, so they have options, - but that is more a druid order thing than the entire night elves.

Remember the entire night elves were involved with Nordrassil because it guarded the Well of Eternity, the arcane well was the main focus, not the tree, except you were a druid, then the ancients and the green dragonflight in the Emerald dream which nordrassil (thorugh its blessing from Ysera) helped them enter the dream. So that part of the night elves is very much druidic order focused. The priests don't care about the druid works, they guarded the well and were the main night elf society, they fought the wars and did the patrolling while the druids did their own order focused work. After the long vigil ended, yous ee some night elves return to the arcane as soon as the Highborne are accepted back, they also aren't foucsed on a tree, but they would be focused on the Well it stands on.

If they move to broken isles, I imagine the druids would be in Val'shaarah, the highborne in Azsuna, but the main capital would be Suramar where all the orders converge before going out to their various different habitats like Moonguard stronghold, Warden Vault/Towers, Black Rook Hold, Cathedral of Eternal Night, Fel ravaged broken shore. etc.

As for void elves.. I think it is in appropriate for them to pioneer Zin'Azshari/Suramar type structures, because that's more a night elf thing and they are Thalassians, I would imagine a fusing between Blood elf and naga architecture - because naga architecture has a void influence, so swap the coral /sea underpinning

Oooh yeah that world tree. And yes ( i already set that in my first repsonse) not all night elves are tree huggers .

But i do not think suramar..just because of the love between all elves right now.

[Mace]

Oooh yeah that world tree. And yes ( i already set that in my first repsonse) not all night elves are tree huggers .

But i do not think suramar..just because of the love between all elves right now.

You have a point, blizzard has made elven relationships quite contentious. You would think that they would be the ones leading the factions in re-unification because of their great experience, intelligence and wisdom - but they're brawling like 15 year olds - it's grossly out of character.

I can understand some of the hatreds, but not the venom behind them to lead to the strength of such hatred. It paints the elves as petty and vindicitive in contrast tot heir stated character. I would have expected the THalssians to have a dislike for night elves, not a hatred (except in the few exceptional circumstances), largely disappointed with them.

I fully expected the nightborne to work with the kaldorei and Thalassians too, mainly the kaldorie cos it's their stuff and history the nightborne represent - but going horde I think happened because of the developers still feeling the horde needs more pretty stuff and horde players were the louder voices crying for the nightborne because they all of a sudden saw a pretty elven city, and to this day, some have a hard time believing Suramar is what the nighte elves made, everything except the last few thousand years under the shield is kaldorei, everything before that is them as kaldorei, and transition to nightborne is not a cultural or identity shift, it is even less marked than when the high elves became blood elves - because at least the, the blood elves changed character and philosophy, the nightborne only change was their bodies becoming skinnier because they were feeding on arcwine instead of real food, that's it. Shal'dorei is named after the perpetual night they are in, nothing changes.

so I expected hem to be some sort of elven bridge where the elves start being friends and showing the world how you work together, fighting for unity and peace.. but no, they get even more mnmessed up, we see Tahlyssra working in a horde that is doing the crazy things instead of operating in protest and demanding or at least showing Sylsvnanas that is not the way.. instead she just goes along , not getting her hands dirty (she doesn't partake in the war of thorns at all, nor do the nightborne directly come against the night elves at all, they only do somall stuff - magical logistics), but it's still surpising, given how vocal Thalyssra was about the legion and that sort of behaviour Sylvanas is just literally repeating, that should not have been the case.

But it is.. so we have a group that really seems to be intentionally put at conflict even when their racial characteristics would work towards the opposite more.

But it's there product remember. They can do what they want. However when they do it, they should know that the things people find dumb or not cool would be commented on.

[Doffen]

Gilneas for Worgen and Night Elves. Heritage Quest was delayed for Worgen til 8.3. Wonder why that might be. Hmmm spoiler perhaps!

[Mace]

Gilneas for Worgen and Night Elves. Heritage Quest was delayed for Worgen til 8.3. Wonder why that might be. Hmmm spoiler perhaps!

I doubt it. They'll be pissing a lot of actual night elf fans if they put the night elves in Gilneas - pretty much a popular option for alliance worgen and non night elf fans who love Gilneas, never a choice for actual night elf fans. I mean who would want their fave race that has places like Eldre'thalas, Suramar and Zin'Azshari, Cathedral of Eternal Night, Tel'anor, Nar'thalas, Shal'anir etc to live in Gileneas and not a racially themed city of their own?

[Doffen]

I doubt it. They'll be pissing a lot of actual night elf fans if they put the night elves in Gilneas - pretty much a popular option for alliance worgen and non night elf fans who love Gilneas, never a choice for actual night elf fans. I mean who would want their fave race that has places like Eldre'thalas, Suramar and Zin'Azshari, Cathedral of Eternal Night, Tel'anor, Nar'thalas, Shal'anir etc to live in Gileneas and not a racially themed city of their own?

It will never be those since Night Elves aren't what they used to be, thanks to blizzard. I am, I mean I was a huge Night Elf fan back in the day, but now I am just being realistic. Making a part of Gilneas City elven themed isn't so bad. Remember, the Worgen lived in Darnassus. To make the Night Elves moving in with the worgen is the realistic way. And I for one think that the heritage armor questline for Worgen will be just that, to reclaim the city. It's their heritage after all. And to have that in 8.2.5 would be too soon, as it could be a huge spoiler. Of course, take away the Night Elves from my statement, and it might be very true.

Gilneas City will be back for Worgen, and they are also homeless so pretty much on the topic as well

[Mace]

It will never be those since Night Elves aren't what they used to be, thanks to blizzard. I am, I mean I was a huge Night Elf fan back in the day, but now I am just being realistic.

You should let them know. If you like the night elf style they did in places like Suramar, zin'Azshari and Eldre'thalas, you should ask for that. If you keep saying Gilneas, trying to be "realistic" they'll think that is what you want.
They've already designed Suramar, Zin'Azsahri, ldre'thalas and Gilenas, these are places that already exist, it's not any eaiser or harder for htem to put the night elves in night elf place. But if you ask for a worgen human city for night elves, you'll get that, cos they'll think that's what you want.

Making a part of Gilneas City elven themed isn't so bad. Remember, the Worgen lived in Darnassus. To make the Night Elves moving in with the worgen is the realistic way. And I for one think that the heritage armor questline for Worgen will be just that, to reclaim the city. It's their heritage after all. And to have that in 8.2.5 would be too soon, as it could be a huge spoiler. Of course, take away the Night Elves from my statement, and it might be very true.

Gilneas City will be back for Worgen, and they are also homeless so pretty much on the topic as well

They certainly aren't gilneans, I just think that the night elf style, especially its city styles are breathtaking,, I don't get giving that up for a human zone. I'm more in favour of night elves remaining night elven - they already have 16 zones specifically tailored for them and their lore, why take up a human one themed around the humans.?


I want the night elves to have cool fancy stuff, because they have that in their lore, I don't think that it should just be fconfined to dreams or the lore books, it's part of their lore, and it would be nice to have the night elves having a fancy part from their own lore, rather than exporting it everywhere but tto them. Id on't think they are that interesting with only forests and ruins to them.. it's crap man.

So you mean you design fancy great stuff from their lore, and you just don't bother to do it for them? You'd rather stick it on the horde or leave it there? What about progress and developing? What about recovering? Instead all you get is the ngihte lves hit ona nd wiped out and burned.. I mean 2 genocide level activities, and they still haven't recovered from the destruction of their civilziaiton 10,000 years ago in any small way. THe long vigil happened, and that was a mission time, so I can accept nothing happening htem. but it finished, and theyseemed to have started moving out, returning to civilziaiotn, having the arcane back in their group, becoming an interesting very versatile.

I don't mind Gilneas having influencing from the night elven druidic culture in there, that's fine, like you vae Cenarion base in Wetlands, or the Sentinel stronghold in Feathermoon, , but not as a home for the entire race. I preferred the bigger vision, and so far it is still part of the night elves.

[Doffen]

You should let them know. If you like the night elf style they did in places like Suramar, zin'Azshari and Eldre'thalas, you should ask for that. If you keep saying Gilneas, trying to be "realistic" they'll think that is what you want.
They've already designed Suramar, Zin'Azsahri, ldre'thalas and Gilenas, these are places that already exist, it's not any eaiser or harder for htem to put the night elves in night elf place. But if you ask for a worgen human city for night elves, you'll get that, cos they'll think that's what you want.




They certainly aren't gilneans, I just think that the night elf style, especially its city styles are breathtaking,, I don't get giving that up for a human zone. I'm more in favour of night elves remaining night elven - they already have 16 zones specifically tailored for them and their lore, why take up a human one themed around the humans.?


I want the night elves to have cool fancy stuff, because they have that in their lore, I don't think that it should just be fconfined to dreams or the lore books, it's part of their lore, and it would be nice to have the night elves having a fancy part from their own lore, rather than exporting it everywhere but tto them. Id on't think they are that interesting with only forests and ruins to them.. it's crap man.

So you mean you design fancy great stuff from their lore, and you just don't bother to do it for them? You'd rather stick it on the horde or leave it there? What about progress and developing? What about recovering? Instead all you get is the ngihte lves hit ona nd wiped out and burned.. I mean 2 genocide level activities, and they still haven't recovered from the destruction of their civilziaiton 10,000 years ago in any small way. THe long vigil happened, and that was a mission time, so I can accept nothing happening htem. but it finished, and theyseemed to have started moving out, returning to civilziaiotn, having the arcane back in their group, becoming an interesting very versatile.

I don't mind Gilneas having influencing from the night elven druidic culture in there, that's fine, like you vae Cenarion base in Wetlands, or the Sentinel stronghold in Feathermoon, , but not as a home for the entire race. I preferred the bigger vision, and so far it is still part of the night elves.

Thought you meant they should get Suramar, Zin'azhari, or the other places that are now close to ruins. Sure, if they build another city for the Night Elves, great. But it is so unlikely. If I am wrong and we get a huge Night Elf city, great.

I am not asking for anything, and I sure do know blizzard doesn't make a city just because I want it. It just makes sense from the current story, nothing else. And a Gilneas City split in half with both Worgen and Night Elven architecture, what's not to love. I get you though, but at the moment it's not realistic. They gave Suramar to the Horde as you said, and I for one made several posts back then the discussion was up for why Suramar and the Nightborne should be with the Night Elves, but Blizzard just doesn't want it that way. They didn't care for what people wanted and why would they do know. But again, if the Night Elves get a huge city next expansion, great.

Gilneas City with Worgen and Night Elf architecture would be cool and fancy btw.

[Nyel]

Make Feralas the new Night Elf home zone. I love Feralas. Just turn Feathermoon Stronghold into the new Darnassus, make it a gigantic fortress on land and on the island next to it, maybe connected by bridges etc.

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

I think any resettling of displaced races should take into account the fact that Kalimdor is Horde dominated, and the Eastern Kingdoms under Alliance control, then match the cultures with what areas are available.

Night Elves : due to the bulk of the civilian population being refugee in Stormwind, an ideal, mostly abandoned territory would be Duskwood+Deadwind Pass. Duskwood would be ideal for Druids, forest dwelling elves and some of their Worgen allies, while Deadwind Pass, with some reclamation, being a major magic confluence, would be the ideal location for a Highborn City, maybe with a Void Elf quarter. It would also allow for a nice continuity with the Worgen themed Tainted Forest & Surwich in the Blasted Lands (with more reclaiming potential). Nature and wilderness is plentiful around, with Stanglethorn and Swamp of Sorrow, which again offer a nice thematic continuity.

Void Elves : as mentioned above, I think a presence in Deadwind Pass would be warranted.
Otherwise I think there would be story potential in them investigating Grim Batol and the Bastion of Twilight. The Twilight Highlands have a lot of potential for them and the Wildhammer Dwarves, since the Twilight Hammer has been vanquished in Cata, as well as the Black Dragons eradicated, and the Dragonmaw were exterminated in Siege of Orgrimmar, with the last remnants done for in WoD UBRS.

High Elves : they could have rebuilt a mixed NE/HE quarter instead of that monument... otherwise there's still room around the Embassy I guess. Otherwise they could get closer to their brethren in the Hinterlands, and maybe rebuild Seradane together with some NE Druids and Highborne.
Alternatively and depending on the state of Northrend, they could try to get closer to the Blue Dragonflight, and rebuild the elven cities in Dragonblight and Crystalsong Forest.

Forsaken : I think Desolace would be a perfect fit for them, just the name matches their theme, the dry climate would be perfect to preserve their decaying bodies, they could weaponize or use as building material the Kodo Graveyard and other corpses laying around. Maraudon, once desecrated, would be ideal for a subterranean city.
In addition, they'd have more genocide and experimenting material in the Centaur. Plus there would be lots of lush greenery close in Feralas to blight, and bonus it would annoy the Tauren for sure.
Alternatively, they could claim the grounds of Ahn Quiraj to build their new Capital City, overlooking the Wound and the prime source of Azerite.

But if Dragon Isles becomes a thing, I hope for some fleet based High Elves and Ogres as prospective allied races, each with their mobile, floating City.

[baskev]

You have a point, blizzard has made elven relationships quite contentious. You would think that they would be the ones leading the factions in re-unification because of their great experience, intelligence and wisdom - but they're brawling like 15 year olds - it's grossly out of character.

I can understand some of the hatreds, but not the venom behind them to lead to the strength of such hatred. It paints the elves as petty and vindicitive in contrast tot heir stated character. I would have expected the THalssians to have a dislike for night elves, not a hatred (except in the few exceptional circumstances), largely disappointed with them.

I fully expected the nightborne to work with the kaldorei and Thalassians too, mainly the kaldorie cos it's their stuff and history the nightborne represent - but going horde I think happened because of the developers still feeling the horde needs more pretty stuff and horde players were the louder voices crying for the nightborne because they all of a sudden saw a pretty elven city, and to this day, some have a hard time believing Suramar is what the nighte elves made, everything except the last few thousand years under the shield is kaldorei, everything before that is them as kaldorei, and transition to nightborne is not a cultural or identity shift, it is even less marked than when the high elves became blood elves - because at least the, the blood elves changed character and philosophy, the nightborne only change was their bodies becoming skinnier because they were feeding on arcwine instead of real food, that's it. Shal'dorei is named after the perpetual night they are in, nothing changes.

so I expected hem to be some sort of elven bridge where the elves start being friends and showing the world how you work together, fighting for unity and peace.. but no, they get even more mnmessed up, we see Tahlyssra working in a horde that is doing the crazy things instead of operating in protest and demanding or at least showing Sylsvnanas that is not the way.. instead she just goes along , not getting her hands dirty (she doesn't partake in the war of thorns at all, nor do the nightborne directly come against the night elves at all, they only do somall stuff - magical logistics), but it's still surpising, given how vocal Thalyssra was about the legion and that sort of behaviour Sylvanas is just literally repeating, that should not have been the case.

But it is.. so we have a group that really seems to be intentionally put at conflict even when their racial characteristics would work towards the opposite more.

But it's there product remember. They can do what they want. However when they do it, they should know that the things people find dumb or not cool would be commented on.

If you look at it like that...then the broken ilse would host all elf races. Some in val'shara, some in azsuna and most in suramar. ( if they all make peace).

[Mace]

If you look at it like that...then the broken ilse would host all elf races. Some in val'shara, some in azsuna and most in suramar. ( if they all make peace).

Only nightborne/night elf - it's night elf lore through and through.. there is no reason that void elves or blood elves should be there except via friendship.

• Suramar - this is the city Tyrande, Malfurion, Illidan, Jarod, Maiev all come from , most of the kaldorei that become the Darnassians are from here, a lot of the resistnace members came form the city, the ones that stayed behind are the ones that became nightborne.
• Suramar is featured a lot in War of the Ancients The Well of Eternity, it is the official capital of the order of ELune that moved there from Zin'Azshari.
• Suramar also hosts the HQ for the Moonguard, the famous battle mage group that carried the nighte lves to victory over their enemies in Kalimdor and were the backbone of the fight against the Legion - when bows and swords were mostly useless against the demons, the magic of the Moonguard was what tled the resistance. Some returned back to Moonguard stronghold after the sundering, only to find Suramar sealed, some stayed in Surmaar helping to protect the people, they later renamed themselves the duskguard, seeing that under a starless perpetual night from the shield, it was no point calling themselves Moonguard.
• Suramar is also where Elune's most holy temple, the Cathedral of Eternal Night is situated, although currently it is on the othe rside of the river, int he ruined part of the city, that sunk and was raised to the surface by both Aegwyn during her tenure as Guardian of Tirisfal and Gul'dan MU

• Azsuna is the highborne home of the Farondis, the first group to ever rebel against Azshara, and they paid a price for that. Much of it's lore is new, but we see an example of what Kaldorei highborne were like before they became the arrogant, reckless bunch the Queen's palace group are notorious foor being.
• Azsuna also hosts the Vault of the Wardens, the stronghold and HQ is, from there they co-ordinate their operations around the Isles.
• Azsuna is where the Demon Hunter Illidari were imprisoned and later released to help the night elves fight off the final invasion. This occurs when MAeieve after realising her hatred allowed this latest incursion to happen, questione d all her previous assumptions and realised that actually perhaps the illidari were enemies of the Legion. Tyrande supported their release, as she did Illidan's.

• Val'sharah is the birthplace of Druidsm, it is why Malfurion first meets Cenarius,,a nd begins his extraordinary journey that results int hes aving of the world and gathering all the races to fight the enemy. Malfruion had the character of the pre-addiction kaldorei, benevolent , humble and wise, and was not afraid to ask other races for help.
• Val'sharah also hosts Black rook hold, the famous citadel of Lord Ravencrest, who would be the Kaldorei noble that would lead the resistance in its victory over the Legion and Queen Azshara, though he would perish before the final battle came.
• Vals'sharah was were Illidan and Malfurion were born, although they lived in Suramar city, - we don't know if their parents lived there or were just passing by on their way back to the city, seeing Malfurion and his brother both lived in the city, it's probably their parents came from the city.

All in al, from Suramar to Azsuna, to Val'sharh - is a place steeped in night elf lore, in particular the lore of the Darnassian group..this si one of the reasons the nightborne joining the horde made no sense to me, this was all bonafide night elf history, particularly that night elf group you play on the alliance, the nightborne are there kin returned from long ago, and closer to them than the Shen'dralar highborne they accepted would be, telling a story very close to the ngiht elves showing the sort of people they were in the pre-sundering era around the time of the invasion.

it's perfect for the night elves, even nmore so than the rest of Kalimdro. It also happens that it has a place for a well in suramar, a world tree in Val'shaarah, the ancients have moved from hyjal to Val''sharah if you played a druid, it's got a home for every night elf group and order.

• Highborne - Azsuna
• Druid - val'sharah
• Priest - Suramar and Cathedral of Eternal night
• Moonguard - Moonguard Stronghold
• Wardens - vault of the Wardens
• Huntresses - Path of unseen Hunters lodge
• Demon Hunters - Broken shore and other fel spots around the 3 zones left behind by the Legion
• Sentinels - can HQ in Black Rook Hold
• Emereald Dream Worgen, Farondis & Ravencrest undead are all groups that can have places there

Capital Suramar - strategically located with access to all the other zones where all the night elven groups and their groups can meet.


I mean, it's like the perfect design for night elves, it has everything to do with them from arcane, to druid, to priest, demon hunters, warden, sentinel, hunters, moonguard etc with history that is older than Hyjal to the night elves.

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Thought you meant they should get Suramar, Zin'azhari, or the other places that are now close to ruins. Sure, if they build another city for the Night Elves, great. But it is so unlikely. If I am wrong and we get a huge Night Elf city, great.

I meant, they should build those cities in their pristine form, not live in the ruins - so Zin'Azshari like yous ee it in Warbringers, or live in Suramar (with or without the nightborne), or repair Eldre'thalas or as a last resort Nar'thalas.

I am not asking for anything, and I sure do know blizzard doesn't make a city just because I want it. It just makes sense from the current story, nothing else. And a Gilneas City split in half with both Worgen and Night Elven architecture, what's not to love. I get you though, but at the moment it's not realistic. They gave Suramar to the Horde as you said, and I for one made several posts back then the discussion was up for why Suramar and the Nightborne should be with the Night Elves, but Blizzard just doesn't want it that way. They didn't care for what people wanted and why would they do know. But again, if the Night Elves get a huge city next expansion, great.

Why isn't it realistic though? The easiest option is living in Suramar as RAvenmoon says, it's night elven city, no extra work needs to be done, it's already there and fits the profile, great forest outside it to keep druids busy, priests have massive cathedral, ancient HQ for the order, with the civilians in Suramar with the nightborne (or without), it's where many of them came from originally anyway.

Rebuilding Gilneas as half night elf/half worgen is a total rebuild, repairing and expanding Nar'thalas is probably easier, I would say re-designing eldre'thalas is also just as much work.

Building Zin'Azshari in a pristine state, would likely be more work than both if they are to do it right., but I would say it's worth it.

Gilenas is already built, it's not in ruin, it's all worgen/Gilnean. To rebuild it, making half of it night elf..just seems wrong, firstly it might be cooll, but i'ts likely only the druidic side of the night elves that would be reflected here.. the Moon peral white buildings of Darnassus/Zin'Azshari and Suramar just don't fit that architectural style and would clash.. only the druidic one would, and that cuts out 3/4 of the night elves as it has no identity for priests, highborne, demon hunters - who to be frank don't really do forests unless they have to. ( they do Temples, cities and fel citadels.)

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I think any resettling of displaced races should take into account the fact that Kalimdor is Horde dominated, and the Eastern Kingdoms under Alliance control, then match the cultures with what areas are available.

Night Elves : due to the bulk of the civilian population being refugee in Stormwind, an ideal, mostly abandoned territory would be Duskwood+Deadwind Pass. Duskwood would be ideal for Druids, forest dwelling elves and some of their Worgen allies, while Deadwind Pass, with some reclamation, being a major magic confluence, would be the ideal location for a Highborn City, maybe with a Void Elf quarter. It would also allow for a nice continuity with the Worgen themed Tainted Forest & Surwich in the Blasted Lands (with more reclaiming potential). Nature and wilderness is plentiful around, with Stanglethorn and Swamp of Sorrow, which again offer a nice thematic continuity.

Going by your first few lines. then the Broken Isles is the most ideal new home for the ngiht elves in every conceivable sense.

Location - away from Kalimdor, close to the EK and rest of alliance
Isolated - fitting more the character of this race
Thematic- the 3 main zones: Suramar, Azsuna and Val'sharah (including the smaller islands like Broken shore) are all night elf themed
Historical:- the zone is where all the current night elves and their orders and all their cultures from Pre-sundering to long vigil exist and are specifically related to the Darnassian group
Fits every group: Every existing night elf group and order has something in the Broken isles: Priests have Catehdral of Etenral night and 3 temples (need to be repaired ofc), Druids have Val'sharah and a World Tree Shaladrassil, highborne have Azsuna, and the Capital is a place all night elves and nightborne can legislate form, being home to all the major night elf heroes. then Wardens have Warden Vault, battle mage group Moonguard have Moonguard Stronghold, Hunters have the Trueshot Lodge, Sentinels have Black rook hold just waiting for them. Suramar even has the perfect set up for a new cleaner purified well should they get one seeing the priesthood is back.

By all accounts, it is tailor made for them, it would win hands down any other zone. It's got the perfect 3 zone layout most major races in Wow have [Humans have 4, but hey, but when you think about it - Dwarves, Blood elves, Orcs, Tauren, Forsaken - all have 3 (forsaken have lost theirs currently, but then winnig kalimdro could provide alternatives, they also have northrend. While gnomes and darkspears share, the presence of both Zuldazar and Mechagon provide an extra 2 zones to add to Gnoemragan and Echo Isles.

Void Elves : as mentioned above, I think a presence in Deadwind Pass would be warranted.
Otherwise I think there would be story potential in them investigating Grim Batol and the Bastion of Twilight. The Twilight Highlands have a lot of potential for them and the Wildhammer Dwarves, since the Twilight Hammer has been vanquished in Cata, as well as the Black Dragons eradicated, and the Dragonmaw were exterminated in Siege of Orgrimmar, with the last remnants done for in WoD UBRS.

interesting, never thought about Deadwind pass, but that could work, like very well, the whole zone become s a void elf capital. I like that better than Twilight Highlands, because the Wildhammer and Dragonmaw are already there, although Wildhammer could permanently refocus in Hinterlands.. still.

High Elves : they could have rebuilt a mixed NE/HE quarter instead of that monument... otherwise there's still room around the Embassy I guess. Otherwise they could get closer to their brethren in the Hinterlands, and maybe rebuild Seradane together with some NE Druids and Highborne.
Alternatively and depending on the state of Northrend, they could try to get closer to the Blue Dragonflight, and rebuild the elven cities in Dragonblight and Crystalsong Forest.

I like Crystalsong forest best, it has a high elfy feel to it that could really work. The city they could use is Skywall, and bring it down in crystal song forest and it be their new home, otherwise they could build a new city.

I'm not that keen on the night elves sharing hinterlands though, because the zone is already cfull with both Wildhammers and Raventusk trolls, to add Night elves too? a huge race with many orders and several cultures all being expressed in tiny Seradane when they have 16 zones in total in game designed after them. If the Kalimdor ones aren't accessible, tehre is still the Broken isles and Crystalsong which is historically night elven - why end up being squashed up in Seradane?

There is aDlaran also for the high elves - and it could be redefined as a predominantly half elf human/high elf place with a huge high elf influence that grew in the years after the scourge attack, and those most of the 6 were human, most of the local government is elven or half elven - that's a spin they could take on it.

Forsaken : I think Desolace would be a perfect fit for them, just the name matches their theme, the dry climate would be perfect to preserve their decaying bodies, they could weaponize or use as building material the Kodo Graveyard and other corpses laying around. Maraudon, once desecrated, would be ideal for a subterranean city.
In addition, they'd have more genocide and experimenting material in the Centaur. Plus there would be lots of lush greenery close in Feralas to blight, and bonus it would annoy the Tauren for sure.
Alternatively, they could claim the grounds of Ahn Quiraj to build their new Capital City, overlooking the Wound and the prime source of Azerite.

But if Dragon Isles becomes a thing, I hope for some fleet based High Elves and Ogres as prospective allied races, each with their mobile, floating City.

I never really thought of Desolace for the Forsaken, but I could work really well. My first choice is still Icecrown which is think it's perfect,, especially if they become a faction of their own. But Desolace could work even better than my previous second choice of Theramore ruins.

Interesting.. desolace could create some interesting horde connections. ther is also darkshore, cos face it, while Tyrande got her revenge, by killing those who murdered her people, the night elves still don't get the land really.

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Make Feralas the new Night Elf home zone. I love Feralas. Just turn Feathermoon Stronghold into the new Darnassus, make it a gigantic fortress on land and on the island next to it, maybe connected by bridges etc.

That's a mobile Fortress, they can move around in stuff like that. However why would you prefer a fortress for a capital, when they'res a city near by, eldre'thalas?

Granted it's my 3rd choice, stillb etter than the military outpost that Feathermoon Stronghold is. That is good for night elf mobile bases in the forest, but not really night elf homes and cities, I think what we had in Darnassus, Suramar or Zin'Azshari (warbringers) is far more fitting for a capital city. - places like shal'anir, Dolonaar, Tel'anor, Feathermoon Stronghold, even Black Rook hold and Moonguard Stronghold are bases for certain orders or small towns/cities - and are not suitable for a capital if you ask me.