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  1. #41
    Elemental Lord sam86's Avatar
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    pre tbc patch i think it was down to either 15 or 12 sec, and yes can spam it (diminish returns were introduced in TBC i think too) so 1v1 forget win against mage
    unless u are rogue then forget any cloth/leather non warlock user (warlocks only survive with massive hp)
    Also most pvp trinkets didn't even dispel all cc forms, i remember warrior trinket dispel fear, something he already has baseline spell to counter it and a talent one too (death wish), and even if dispel, just nova then poly and run, IF u want to run
    With ZG trinkets + right talents u can 1 macro shot anyone in wow every 5 min (cd of trinkets), it was infamous and since it was just once every 5 min no need to balance it in first place

    still mages weren't really OP, they are pita for warrior but shaman can easily lock them with totem resist other school, rogues already f8ck everyone who isn't plate, hunters outrange and outdamage u not to mention with right pet forget to cast a single spell on them, well enjoy raping warriors and priests i guess

    and druids were bottom of pvp list, it was even joked and mocked in Flintlock how druids were the worst pvp class by miles from any other class in wow
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    pre tbc patch i think it was down to either 15 or 12 sec, and yes can spam it (diminish returns were introduced in TBC i think too) so 1v1 forget win against mage
    unless u are rogue then forget any cloth/leather non warlock user (warlocks only survive with massive hp)
    Also most pvp trinkets didn't even dispel all cc forms, i remember warrior trinket dispel fear, something he already has baseline spell to counter it and a talent one too (death wish), and even if dispel, just nova then poly and run, IF u want to run
    With ZG trinkets + right talents u can 1 macro shot anyone in wow every 5 min (cd of trinkets), it was infamous and since it was just once every 5 min no need to balance it in first place

    still mages weren't really OP, they are pita for warrior but shaman can easily lock them with totem resist other school, rogues already f8ck everyone who isn't plate, hunters outrange and outdamage u not to mention with right pet forget to cast a single spell on them, well enjoy raping warriors and priests i guess

    and druids were bottom of pvp list, it was even joked and mocked in Flintlock how druids were the worst pvp class by miles from any other class in wow
    If you don't know about a topic, don't post about it. Diminishing returns were in the game since before release.

  3. #43
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solarfallz View Post
    If you don't know about a topic, don't post about it. Diminishing returns were in the game since before release.
    He is right???

    You people simply misuse "diminishing returns" term. CC like sheep in PvP never lasted full duration, but could be reapplied and would last regardless how long it lasted before that or how many times it was applied. By the definition it is "no diminishing returns".

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    I both played a rogue and I've played against rogues in both Vanilla and BfA and I have no idea what you're going on about. Your other comment was some nonsense about rogues automatically dropping combat between swings, which is just patently false.
    IS IT FALSE? geeee my bad. I thought it was scientifically proven.

    Of course I was exaggerating, Sherlock. But it's also proven that rogues drop combat too easily, even when they have dots on them, every tick should reset combat timer, the entire point of doting rogues is to make sure they don't get to exploit the bullshit Blizzard never fix.

  5. #45
    Dot ticks do not reset combat timer.

  6. #46
    Elemental Lord sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solarfallz View Post
    If you don't know about a topic, don't post about it. Diminishing returns were in the game since before release.
    beside the fact that it was ages ago, when game was first introduced there was no diminish return
    so if u want to go accurate, check that page : https://wow.gamepedia.com/Diminishing_returns seems stun was off diminish return in patch 1.9 for some reason and then back in 2.1
    and i also was wrong that there was no diminsh return, there was, but it was ridiculous high that u can just ignore it exist for most spells, i don't remember sheep break easy as ppl claim, because u sheep and run or sheep and pyroblast, and both don't need more than 6 sec of sheep which sheep will surely last far longer

    still if ur focus is really pvp i'd go warlock over mage during vanilla era, warlocks struggle against warriors (which mage really f8ck their lives) but beside them warlock is better than mage against all others with their dots and pets, even rogues had hard time to stealth their way to a human warlock with felhunter out

    of course pve ppl will always pick mages over locks
    Last edited by sam86; 2019-08-16 at 02:21 PM.
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  7. #47
    Yes, they can run if they choose to. More likely they will eat/drink to full and continually reset the fight until they wear you down or you have no CDs left. Venruki demonstrated this repeatedly in the beta duel tournaments.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    beside the fact that it was ages ago, when game was first introduced there was no diminish return
    so if u want to go accurate, check that page : https://wow.gamepedia.com/Diminishing_returns seems stun was off diminish return in patch 1.9 for some reason and then back in 2.1
    No, RANDOM STUNS were taken off of shared DR with CONTROLLED STUNS. Stuns in general ALWAYS HAD DIMINISHING RETURNS, since long before the release of the game.

    Off the top of my head I could think of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZIg4OZlA-4&t=1m40s as one of the earlier PVP video showing a DR immunity (fear in this case). This video was released during patch 1.3.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    He is right???

    You people simply misuse "diminishing returns" term. CC like sheep in PvP never lasted full duration, but could be reapplied and would last regardless how long it lasted before that or how many times it was applied. By the definition it is "no diminishing returns".
    You are objectively wrong. The 4th time you cast sheep on someone he will be completely immune. This has been true since beta.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by oplawlz View Post
    In vanilla, are you sure? I'm not going to pretend I remember for sure, but I thought it kept them in combat, same as fearing someone.
    You're probably mixing up PvE and PvP. A mob keep you into combat as long as it is in combat itself, but against a player it's 6 seconds after the last offensive action done/received.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    There was no diminishing returns on CC in PvP
    Depends on which patch. DR were added rather early during Vanilla.

  10. #50
    If there were no DRs in classic could a mage just spam nothing but sheep on you until the cows came home?

  11. #51
    Elemental Lord sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solarfallz View Post
    No, RANDOM STUNS were taken off of shared DR with CONTROLLED STUNS. Stuns in general ALWAYS HAD DIMINISHING RETURNS, since long before the release of the game.

    Off the top of my head I could think of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZIg4OZlA-4&t=1m40s as one of the earlier PVP video showing a DR immunity (fear in this case). This video was released during patch 1.3.
    it still doesn't change what i said, that if it last 10 sec or 30, u never needed more than 6 sec to run away or pyroblast and fight, and in both cases u won't need a 2nd polymorph
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by CrawlFromThePit View Post
    IS IT FALSE? geeee my bad. I thought it was scientifically proven.

    Of course I was exaggerating, Sherlock. But it's also proven that rogues drop combat too easily, even when they have dots on them, every tick should reset combat timer, the entire point of doting rogues is to make sure they don't get to exploit the bullshit Blizzard never fix.
    Still have no idea what you're talking about. My guess is that you fought a rogue who used cloak and vanish and now you think rogues just drop combat easily.

  13. #53
    Over 9000! Gimlix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigTone View Post
    Why start drama?
    Hes right though.
    The unfairness made WoW fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shekora View Post
    Goddamn it, Gimlix, why do you keep making these threads?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam the Wiser View Post
    Goddamn it, Gimlix, why do you keep making these threads?

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    Still have no idea what you're talking about. My guess is that you fought a rogue who used cloak and vanish and now you think rogues just drop combat easily.
    There was a bug causing rogues to get out of combat randomly

    If u used a macro to constantly try and enter stealth in your main ability...u would enter stealth randomly

    There was a blue post fix on this recently (i think...or maybe not)
    EDIT: There wasnt a fix for this made public...but maybe there was a stealthfix
    Last edited by Roanda; 2019-08-19 at 04:56 PM.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    There was a bug causing rogues to get out of combat randomly

    If u used a macro to constantly try and enter stealth in your main ability...u would enter stealth randomly

    There was a blue post fix on this recently (i think...or maybe not)
    Not saying you're wrong, but I haven't seen anything about that and can't find anything on it. Everything I see about stealth bugs is dropping stealth inappropriately. And I do (admittedly casual) PvP a lot and have yet to see a rogue gain stealth without dropping combat or using vanish.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    Not saying you're wrong, but I haven't seen anything about that and can't find anything on it. Everything I see about stealth bugs is dropping stealth inappropriately. And I do (admittedly casual) PvP a lot and have yet to see a rogue gain stealth without dropping combat or using vanish.
    I played...A LOT of rogue on season 1 BfA...a lot...reached 1850 rating (not good but played a lot of games)

    The reason why not a lot of people seem to know this is because i play with this macro (i made up myself) since WotLK or TBC (cant remember)

    /cast [combat, nostealth]Sinister Strike; [nocombat, nostealth] Stealth
    If you use this macro on your rogue in arenas...you will enter stealth randomly....at random times.
    This was in season 1 BfA, not sure if its still live, as i gave up my rogue char.

    Give it a try if you have a rogue i refuse to play my rogue again
    Last edited by Roanda; 2019-08-19 at 05:06 PM.

  17. #57
    Most classes have tools to run.

    Iirc, only warriors, priests, and warlocks have no escape mechanisms.

    Mage, sheep and run
    Hunter trap and run
    Druid, being a Druid
    Sham shock wolf run
    Paladin bubble hearth
    Rogue vanish...or just stay in stealth in first place

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by sourlol View Post
    Most classes have tools to run.

    Iirc, only warriors, priests, and warlocks have no escape mechanisms.

    Mage, sheep and run
    Hunter trap and run
    Druid, being a Druid
    Sham shock wolf run
    Paladin bubble hearth
    Rogue vanish...or just stay in stealth in first place
    priest has psychic scream + swiftness potion. Should get you enough distance to break combat and mount up.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    He is right???

    You people simply misuse "diminishing returns" term. CC like sheep in PvP never lasted full duration, but could be reapplied and would last regardless how long it lasted before that or how many times it was applied. By the definition it is "no diminishing returns".
    That's just not how it works. There are diminishing returns on sheep in pvp. Hell, the player will eventually become immune to polymorph

  20. #60
    Banned CrawlFromThePit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    Still have no idea what you're talking about. My guess is that you fought a rogue who used cloak and vanish and now you think rogues just drop combat easily.
    Just go play a rogue and notice how it's easy to drop combat and restart your entire bullshit.

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