Having a M+ that wasn't timed?

[Trend]

I would have no problem if they added an untimed option for greatly reduced rewards ... like an untimed +10 being the same rewards as a timed +5. Would not bother me a bit and I don't see what it would hurt, but i would never do it. I can already push what's beyond my timed comfort as an untimed run (i.e., we can ignore the timer.) I remember doing a 20 in Legion that took like 3 hours LOL.

[Donimic]

Actually hope we move away from m+ (but I doubt we will) next expac, back to basics, have dungeons be hard and rewarding for the effort spent. This isn't Diablo please.

The problem is that this just doesn't work for a game with such diversity in player ability.
Assuming you are 2.5k IO, what you consider challenging is both beyond impossible for the average player and a joke for MDI caliber teams at the same time. The whole point is that people can gradually learn the severity mechanics while still gearing and enjoying the game. Hell, look on these forums. There are all kinds of threads of people talking about how they could never fathom doing a +10 and you want every dungeon to START at a level that is "challenging" for someone who can key +20s?!?

[Tharkkun]

I do enjoy the M+ content, but there are times where I wished it wasn't always a race to make sure I'm getting the best stuff.

Would you enjoy a type of Mythic Dungeons where it wasn't timed, the mechanics were just crazy tough and each boss dropped a piece of gear?
For example, completing a M+ 20 would be as difficult as killing a Mythic raid boss, where you will encounter numerous wipes for days before you got the mechanics and dps down. ...AKA a 5 man raid...

Just something I always wondered if I was alone on.

This was the original design of M+ when it replaced challenge modes. Then somewhere in the development cycle during alpha/beta they added timers back in. It was supposed to have a huge completion timer that most people would never come close to hitting but turned it back into a race.

Honestly they could dump the timers and put enrages on bosses forcing the DPS to perform where it matters imo.

[apples]

This was the original design of M+ when it replaced challenge modes. Then somewhere in the development cycle during alpha/beta they added timers back in. It was supposed to have a huge completion timer that most people would never come close to hitting but turned it back into a race.

Honestly they could dump the timers and put enrages on bosses forcing the DPS to perform where it matters imo.

trash is where the majority of time is spent in every m+ but you dont think trash is important?

hm

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You know I keep hearing about this reasoning about timers; "you'd just wait for cooldowns". And it's the same thing I see people doing in CRPGs and laugh; sleeping after every encounter.
In a dungeon in an actual tabletop game, if you just sit there and wait after you stirred the pot, mobs WILL come for you. They won't just wait.

So here is an actual idea for future content. Why not use AI and make a dungeon were bosses and mobs behave with a modicum of intelligence and don't just wait for the heroes to kill them at their own leisure? Would people be interested in such a format?

the technology to create a dungeon like that hasnt been invented yet.

[Jastall]

You know I keep hearing about this reasoning about timers; "you'd just wait for cooldowns". And it's the same thing I see people doing in CRPGs and laugh; sleeping after every encounter.
In a dungeon in an actual tabletop game, if you just sit there and wait after you stirred the pot, mobs WILL come for you. They won't just wait.

So here is an actual idea for future content. Why not use AI and make a dungeon were bosses and mobs behave with a modicum of intelligence and don't just wait for the heroes to kill them at their own leisure? Would people be interested in such a format?

People will cry about that far, far more than they ever cried about timers. Imagine you pulling things cleanly and then all of a sudden some miniboss halfway across the room decides, fuck your face, I'm attacking and wiping yo ass.

The timer is there for the same reasons that raid bosses have an Enrage, it's not much more complicated than that, and unless you have 20+ deaths, have stupid low DPS or run a very high key the timer really isn't a hindrance.

[SirKickBan]

I do enjoy the M+ content, but there are times where I wished it wasn't always a race to make sure I'm getting the best stuff.

Would you enjoy a type of Mythic Dungeons where it wasn't timed, the mechanics were just crazy tough and each boss dropped a piece of gear?
For example, completing a M+ 20 would be as difficult as killing a Mythic raid boss, where you will encounter numerous wipes for days before you got the mechanics and dps down. ...AKA a 5 man raid...

Just something I always wondered if I was alone on.

Biggest problem I see is that the community's attitude would still be to rush as fast as humanly possible.

Back at the end of WoD we got our first Mythic dungeon, and that was exactly how people treated it, despite there being no time limit.

Personally, I'd like something like this, combined with an Ilvl cap and the disabling of trinket slots, gems, and enchantments in M+. M+ should be about skill, like the original Challenge Mode dungeons were in MoP, and not just another ilvl grind.

[Tharkkun]

trash is where the majority of time is spent in every m+ but you dont think trash is important?

hm

I didn't say that. Trash can be kited, cc'd and handled in numerous ways to delay/extend each pack so the only challenge that presents is to slow you down. They could make each trash pack harder and remove the timers as well if they wanted. The only reason trash is even remotely hard is because we're forced to pull more at once to meet timers.

Putting hard caps on the individual boss fights means you can't cheese it. Some bosses are harder than the trash in an instance. For example the witches in Waycrest or the 1st (not so much anymore) and 3rd bosses in Temple of seth.

[ItsWhimsy]

Having a M+ that wasn't timed?

I don't even time my keys now. I complete a 10+ key for the weekly chest and check out for the week.

[prwraith]

If they removed the timer for mythic + it may be enjoyable to me. I as it is, have 0 interest in them now besides just doing my weekly 10

[Dioporco]

Timer is the main reason M+ are cancer and unfunny, also it is the main reason for the usual triple rogue meta etc etc

[Mahmeya]

M+ was pretty much porting Greater rifts from D3. And do you know what D3 did with GRs in a patch?
Yeah, that's right, removed the key grind which WoW then ported. /facepalm

So, first move they should do is to remove the key grind. Have it work like D3 GRs do now: you can do any difficulty you did before, and X above, based on the speed of your best clear (which is the only purpose I'd keep the timer in, more on it below). As in D3, you could join any key level as the difficulty range would be based on the group leader. This would also remove the 'someone wasted my key' drama, though it'd require something else to counter the potential griefers/trolls who'd abuse this. Since you could do unlimited runs (no more needing keys), it'd need changing the loot system for it. Removing the end-of-run chest but buffing the weekly chest slightly (let's say, 1 item per each 2-3 different dungeons done that week - to some 4 items if you did all of them). And introducing gear vendor in style of Blood Shards/Titan residuum where you could get the shards in small amount from each run (you'd auto-get them on finishing a run) and a major burst in the weekly chest.

You know I keep hearing about this reasoning about timers; "you'd just wait for cooldowns". And it's the same thing I see people doing in CRPGs and laugh; sleeping after every encounter.
In a dungeon in an actual tabletop game, if you just sit there and wait after you stirred the pot, mobs WILL come for you. They won't just wait.

So here is an actual idea for future content. Why not use AI and make a dungeon were bosses and mobs behave with a modicum of intelligence and don't just wait for the heroes to kill them at their own leisure? Would people be interested in such a format?

Yeah, we have better AI used in Islands. Expanding it to dungeons might be a way. For start, maybe something like "You have X seconds after killing a pack to engage the next one, otherwise they come for you" could work as well. Or just freeze cooldown regeneration outside of combat.

Timer is the main reason M+ are cancer and unfunny, also it is the main reason for the usual triple rogue meta etc etc

Yeah, the timer is one of the reasons M+ became so elitist - and why I, even though I loved the idea when it was announced, did maybe 15 of them during Legion and 0 during BFA.
It should also get some restructuralization when it comes to level of key and level of reward (call it key level squish if you want) - in the current state, sub-10 is subpar to WQ gear but much harder (yes, this is a major problem when it comes to the whole current gear structure in WoW, not just M+) and creates a major roadblock for people who'd want to give it a try: to get to a level where you can get meaningful reward, you have to grind lower levels (which is another reason why I'd remove the key system, as said above).
And while we're at it, to make it easier for people who are not M+ grinders, it'd be nice if the game actually told you what ilvl is what level of key giving.

[HitPoint]

We had that in early Cata, and it didn't go too well with the majority of the community. Personally I would love challenging 5man content without a timer, but people look at the time investment spent in dungeons any longer then 30 minutes to be too much.

A perfect example is the start of 8.2 Operation Mechagon, the trash was nerfed like 4 days later because it had possible wipe mechanics if healers weren't ready (or dps/tanks with cd's/awareness).

[Saverem]

I do enjoy the M+ content, but there are times where I wished it wasn't always a race to make sure I'm getting the best stuff.

Would you enjoy a type of Mythic Dungeons where it wasn't timed, the mechanics were just crazy tough and each boss dropped a piece of gear?
For example, completing a M+ 20 would be as difficult as killing a Mythic raid boss, where you will encounter numerous wipes for days before you got the mechanics and dps down. ...AKA a 5 man raid...

Just something I always wondered if I was alone on.

They have this, it's called M0. Just do M0s with extremely undergeared 120s and you'll have that experience.

[trm90]

Alternative system that doesn’t use timers but still prevents people from AFKing their way to victory:

- Can use Bloodlust a maximum of four times, regardless of its cool down or Sated buff

- instead of a countdown bar it’s just a death bar. So you could say eg. >15 deaths = deplete, 9-14 is 1 chest, 4-8 is 2, 1-3 is 3 chest.

Not perfect and the numbers are just rough estimations but you catch my drift. Use your imaginations, there’s tons of ways to create challenging non-timed dungeons which reward people appropriately and avoid ultra long runs

[Revamp Man]

I do enjoy the M+ content, but there are times where I wished it wasn't always a race to make sure I'm getting the best stuff.

Would you enjoy a type of Mythic Dungeons where it wasn't timed, the mechanics were just crazy tough and each boss dropped a piece of gear?
For example, completing a M+ 20 would be as difficult as killing a Mythic raid boss, where you will encounter numerous wipes for days before you got the mechanics and dps down. ...AKA a 5 man raid...

Just something I always wondered if I was alone on.

So if I'm in a m10 chances are I may not always make the timer but I do always get the best loot

The timer becomes a non-issue once the players learn things like trash mechanics and affixes


Heck I messed around in a +7 where one DPS was a carry and the other didn't understand bursting leading to 3 wipes before the boss

[BlueRemedy]

Then why are World First guilds doing split clears of Heroic?

That being said, I don't think M+ shouldn't ever be timerless, but I could see a point of having a more flexible timer for lower keys.

For the prestige of being first at something in World of Warcraft in 2019

Aka stupidity.