View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. This poll is closed
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #19541
    Herald of the Titans
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    She suggested the mother and father of the house on the basis that they could get the most support within Parliament to form a GoNU due to being well liked and respected through their many years on the benches.

    That they're also two of the least likeliest people to abuse such a position for matters other than those pertaining to why such a government was formed is a welcome bonus.
    For a thing that is to almost complete degree a thing for the house yes. It'd -never- be popular among voters. Thus go with people respected by those who work with them but maybe not the voters.
    It's the smart thing to do.
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  2. #19542
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzjhath View Post
    For a thing that is to almost complete degree a thing for the house yes. It'd -never- be popular among voters. Thus go with people respected by those who work with them but maybe not the voters.
    It's the smart thing to do.
    Voters have absolutely nothing to with forming a Government of National Unity.

  3. #19543
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Voters have absolutely nothing to with forming a Government of National Unity.
    But voters and how they might feel is probably a very large reason why people don't want to vote for one led by the other party. Thus they have things to do with it.
    - Lars

  4. #19544
    The Lightbringer Pannonian's Avatar
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    This thread is Brexit in a nutshell:

    It's not about the relations between the UK and the EU, it is just about british domestic policy. Maybe Slant was a bit unfriendly, but in the end he is right. Well, hope you have a nice 1st November. The rest of the EU is preparing, while you're arguing about who should be PM.

  5. #19545
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzjhath View Post
    But voters and how they might feel is probably a very large reason why people don't want to vote for one led by the other party. Thus they have things to do with it.
    Con MPs that vote to bring down their own government have already burnt their bridges, regardless of who becomes temporary PM, they will be ejected from the party and unless the seat they have been elected to represent is very strongly in favour of remain they can kiss the idea of being re-elected goodbye.

    Lab voters will be happy that they have brought down the Con government, as will the SNP.

    Lib Dem, Green and Plaid voters will be happy that they have a chance at stopping no-deal.

    The Irish voters will just do what they always do.

    So in terms of voters' feelings it is the Con MPs who have the most to lose but seeing as backing this motion would spell the end of their political careers what voters feel about them is rather inconsequential.

  6. #19546
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Finland to decide how Britain votes on EU laws after Boris Johnson pulls officials out of meetings before Brexit
    We're taking back control, guys! .... and then giving that control away >_>



    Are we a bigger joke than Trump yet?
    Err? We're leaving the EU. You didn't think that we'd have any say in the laws they create?

  7. #19547
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    The fact we're still entitled to vote would say that yes, I do think that.
    Right... and we're leaving in just over two months. In practical terms there is not enough time to pass and implement any laws between then and now, in fact the European Council are not scheduled meet again until two weeks before Brexit, so in essence we are not giving up any control.

    And don't you think it is pretty arrogant to assume that we should have a say in how an organisation that we're leaving moves forward once we've left?

    According the article you linked "A spokesperson for the European Commission welcomed the arrangement, and said the UK approach was consistent with its commitments not to disrupt the workings of the bloc."

    So in short, for once , we're doing as we should.

    Oh and our European neighbours shouldn't worry too much you've still got Nigel (assuming he turns up) in case you miss us .
    Last edited by Pann; 2019-08-21 at 03:20 PM.

  8. #19548
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Finland to decide how Britain votes on EU laws after Boris Johnson pulls officials out of meetings before Brexit
    We're taking back control, guys! .... and then giving that control away >_>



    Are we a bigger joke than Trump yet?
    That depends, do you wish to buy Greenland?

  9. #19549
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Finland to decide how Britain votes on EU laws after Boris Johnson pulls officials out of meetings before Brexit
    We're taking back control, guys! .... and then giving that control away >_>



    Are we a bigger joke than Trump yet?
    I said it once and i will say it again, a large segment of the pro-brexit crowd voted for it on racist principles. It was all about those migrants coming their way, that's why you also saw an increase the day after the vote happened, people felt empowered to not just go after brown people but eastern europeans also.

    People be damned if England actually moved into this century and asked that people need to have an actual ID on them at all times to discourage immigration.

  10. #19550
    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    I said it once and i will say it again, a large segment of the pro-brexit crowd voted for it on racist principles. It was all about those migrants coming their way, that's why you also saw an increase the day after the vote happened, people felt empowered to not just go after brown people but eastern europeans also.
    Migrants are not necessarily racist issue for broad population, more of labor issue.

    Without them shortage of labor would see lower growth but higher wages.

  11. #19551
    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    I said it once and i will say it again, a large segment of the pro-brexit crowd voted for it on racist principles. It was all about those migrants coming their way, that's why you also saw an increase the day after the vote happened, people felt empowered to not just go after brown people but eastern europeans also.

    People be damned if England actually moved into this century and asked that people need to have an actual ID on them at all times to discourage immigration.
    This is hilarious if you think about it, because now, after they leave the EU, they won't be getting any more of those pesky qualified eastern europeans, but they'll keep getting the non-eu, non-christian immigrants. Which I imagine will be a big shock for the local racist crowd!

  12. #19552
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    We're not into slavery, so we pretty much offer EU citizenship to anyone who's eligible. As for "usefulness", they're human beings, so how about you don't treat them like machines for a factory. As for it would be "stupid by the EU", yeah... it's not like it's the EU's choice, is it...
    You stated that EU should just kick out any UK-citizen as retribution towards the UK; doing that would be a choice by the EU states.

    And that choice would be stupid, and the obvious solution is to offer them to stay in some way - with work-permits if they are, indeed useful (or using some kind of point system as was planned by the UK (which may or may not happen)). People who lived in the EU-27 country for 5 years are more or less free to stay.

    It seems that is also what is actually planned by some EU governments, as they don't consider the welfare to non-citizens a priority.
    See e.g. http://www.bamf.de/EN/Migration/Arbe...halt-node.html

  13. #19553
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Migrants are not necessarily racist issue for broad population, more of labor issue.

    Without them shortage of labor would see lower growth but higher wages.
    Discrimination based on birth is still racist, even when it has financial reasoning to hide behind.

  14. #19554
    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    Discrimination based on birth is still racist, even when it has financial reasoning to hide behind.
    Solving your own labor issues by capturing population from other countries (thus depriving them of their own potential growth they could provide there) is not in any way better.

  15. #19555
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    You stated that EU should just kick out any UK-citizen as retribution towards the UK; doing that would be a choice by the EU states.

    And that choice would be stupid, and the obvious solution is to offer them to stay in some way - with work-permits if they are, indeed useful (or using some kind of point system as was planned by the UK (which may or may not happen)). People who lived in the EU-27 country for 5 years are more or less free to stay.

    It seems that is also what is actually planned by some EU governments, as they don't consider the welfare to non-citizens a priority.
    See e.g. http://www.bamf.de/EN/Migration/Arbe...halt-node.html
    Dude, don't be stupid. The default state is for foreigners to need permits. UK citizens currently live in the EU under the EU umbrella, with EU permits, a fast track I might add. Once the UK leaves the EU... "ALL TREATIES CEASE TO APPLY." That includes the UK's membership of this permit system. The EU won't literally "kick out" anyone, their permits will lose validity by default. The whole idea was that the UK and EU would take an active effort to fasttrack each other's citizens to new, valid permits so they can go about their lives largely unaffected (if that is even possible).

    If the UK refuses to do that, so will the EU. It is really tit for tat. There is no obligation to the EU to unilaterally do stuff.

    The choice would be stupid. You can thank the UK for that. We've seen a whole lot of stupid from that side, enough for everyone to get a piece of it.

    Having said that, UK citizens wouldn't be booted out of the country. They'd have to go through the (much slower) process for third-country nationals, however.
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  16. #19556
    The Lightbringer dribbles's Avatar
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    Oh no Angela. Doesn't this capitulation lark get really old? Don't ruin my sweet sweet no deal...

    Angela Merkel tells Boris Johnson a Brexit deal to ditch the backstop CAN be done 'in the next 30 days

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...la-Merkel.html

    Now, about that £39bn we are not going to pay the EU, that OK too?...
    13/11/2022 Sir Keir Starmer. "Brexit is safe in my hands, Let me be really clear about Brexit. There is no case for going back into the EU and no case for going into the single market or customs union. Freedom of movement is over"

  17. #19557
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    And that choice would be stupid, and the obvious solution is to offer them to stay in some way
    So maybe be more annoyed with the UK government for not doing this initially?

    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    (or using some kind of point system as was planned by the UK (which may or may not happen)).
    A points based immigration system was never seriously "planned" by the UK, because such a system would be completely useless in terms of the immigration that the UK needs.

    When conservative politicians or newspapers in the UK mention a points based immigration system, they are appealing to conservative voters who think an Australian immigration system = only letting white people like themselves enter a country.

    Angela Merkel tells Boris Johnson a Brexit deal to ditch the backstop CAN be done 'in the next 30 days
    Funny how this has been true for the last 2 and a half years, yet the UK press and BBC go mad for it all the same.
    Last edited by Dizzeeyooo; 2019-08-21 at 07:39 PM.

  18. #19558
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Are "workable alternatives" the same as ditching something altogether?
    Workable alternatives are what the EU has been asking for since the backstop was suggested, the problem is that they don't exist so the UK can't provide them

  19. #19559
    Merkel is playing it smart.

    She basically told Boris "Get someone else that will work." knowing there's nothing what will work. It's been the EU position since the first vote failed months ago.

  20. #19560
    Literally nothing has changed, the EU has the same position and the Uk government will display its usual ineptitude and get nothing done, after everything crashed and burned they will blame the EU.

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