Classic goes back the awesome straight rotations?

[jackofwind]

We pro frost mages mounted up, pulled a bunch of mobs (even elite ones), frostnovaed them on cooldown, and aoed them down.

Frostnova only broke rarely in classic.

He's talking about the raid DPS rotation.

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No, no it wasnt. That was close to the end-game BC spec when you sack a succy. You are still forgetting two other dots, corruption especially for the nightfall procs.

You're wrong in a couple of ways.

1. DS/Ruin is the best consistent DPS raid spec in Vanilla for Warlocks, it's been number crunched to death. It has terrible utility though and suffers in PvP, so most people run SM/Ruin because the difference is small only if the Warlock is allowed to use Corruption. You'd have probably at most 3 Warlocks actually allowed to use Corruption in a raid (that's actually too many but you did see it), and before the cap was moved from 8 to 16 debuffs you'd likely have none.

2. Warlocks put up their curse, used Corruption if they were assigned a debuff slot, and then spammed SB. That's it. Anything else in raids was just poor debuff management. No Curse of Agony or Doom, no Siphon Life, no Immolate. And if you were running SM/Ruin but didn't have a Corruption slot assigned to you then you really ought to have been raiding as DS/Ruin.

Assuming you're not talking about 'rotations' while leveling or something dumb like that because rotations are only relevant to dungeon and raid content. DoTs scale terribly in Vanilla and you're always better off getting an extra SB off than applying anything but Corruption, which is really only worth applying because it gives you a chance to get more SBs off.

[Elkfingers]

I don't disagree with you, there are always more things to consider.

The skill ceiling doesn't come from knowing how to press two buttons (obviously). "On the fly decision making which separates orange parses from green ones" is true for almost every class. Albeit, I wouldn't use "green to orange" as a comparison in regards to "on the fly decision making" (25-49 - 95 is quite the gap). Blue > purple or purple > orange is probably more appropriate (imo) if you're referencing that sort of concept.

That said, I am simply saying that a DH, from a rotational standpoint, is extremely basic. JUST as basic as classes in vanilla (now "classic").

Yeah I'd agree with that. It's MMOC so we have to exaggerate right? Obviously at the top end of parses it's a lot more than just executing your rotation because then we're throwing in high level shit like positioning proactively and planning cooldown usage around burst windows and fight lengths which doesn't even need to come into play outside cutting edge progression and the skill gaps per percentile get exponentially wider. To an extent that's a factor in Classic so I do see your point, and it's probably fairly easy to lose sight of the bottom end of the playerbase's ability to not grasp really basic concepts.

So aye, from a stripped down rotational standpoint without any kind of optimisation in mind, Classic and Retail are probably about as hard as one another when it comes to 'hit the button'.

[zetitup]

Rogue rotation: Keep Slice n Dice up, spam Sinister Strike, Slice n Dice, UNLESS, it's a long time until it runs out, then Evis, spam sinister strike again
Thats gonna be my rotation

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No, no it wasnt. That was close to the end-game BC spec when you sack a succy. You are still forgetting two other dots, corruption especially for the nightfall procs.

Do you even have the debuff slot to specc affli? ;P

[Laqweeta]

It’s better than retail. Every class on retail is literally a combo point class. 1, 1, 1 (proc) 2. Back to 1.

You have your spenders and your finishers.

[Awsyme]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUVNOI9rI5U I'll just post this here - watch around 4:45 onwards.

(Some classes did have more going on... but a lot were... pretty basic. Especially in raiding when dots were discouraged) I'll also say that the warlock duel is one of the greatest pvp things I've ever seen - even years later.

[maccajoe]

Good things about Vanilla, this aint chief.
121111211112. Great rotaion.

[pappaslop]

Yeah I'd agree with that. It's MMOC so we have to exaggerate right? Obviously at the top end of parses it's a lot more than just executing your rotation because then we're throwing in high level shit like positioning proactively and planning cooldown usage around burst windows and fight lengths which doesn't even need to come into play outside cutting edge progression and the skill gaps per percentile get exponentially wider. To an extent that's a factor in Classic so I do see your point, and it's probably fairly easy to lose sight of the bottom end of the playerbase's ability to not grasp really basic concepts.

So aye, from a stripped down rotational standpoint without any kind of optimisation in mind, Classic and Retail are probably about as hard as one another when it comes to 'hit the button'.

Right...

It is a bit interesting though. The mindset of cutting edge today versus back then, which will now be applied to Classic in less than a week.

I'm looking forward to it nonetheless although I do not plan on organizing a 40-50+ man roster this time around, no thanks... 25-30 is already enough of a headache

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

threat has never been an exciting mechanic its for all purposes pointless, your also in the lastest patch so its rarely every going to present an issue for classic with all the class changes present from the beginning.

Nah some classes don't have threat dumps and melee generate fucks tons of agro warriors are an example. Agro done right makes fights more engage and random. Agro done poorly feels souless and boring. Classes succeeds sometimes and fails other. You also need gear to hold threat well and it's sporadic as fuck in classic compared to other expansions.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUVNOI9rI5U I'll just post this here - watch around 4:45 onwards.

(Some classes did have more going on... but a lot were... pretty basic. Especially in raiding when dots were discouraged) I'll also say that the warlock duel is one of the greatest pvp things I've ever seen - even years later.

Warlocks have a lot of depth.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

The good thing about it is you MOSTLY control everything going on. Its not like random because you did something procs are happening every 5 seconds and dozens of them are going at once and you just kind of work around them as you spam 2-3 keys and spend what you built.

[kenn9530]

Nah some classes don't have threat dumps and melee generate fucks tons of agro warriors are an example. Agro done right makes fights more engage and random. Agro done poorly feels souless and boring. Classes succeeds sometimes and fails other. You also need gear to hold threat well and it's sporadic as fuck in classic compared to other expansions.

agro doesnt do anything to make fights more engaging, with how easy fights are in classic it doesnt matter, plus you just need to have threat meter installed to monitor it so threat is irrelevant.

There is no depth in classic chars, most classes have 2-3 useful abilties and an extra 1-2 for pvp situations thats it, a bad player with the same gear is going to be almost the same as a good player in the same gear.

[Choda]

Well truth be told, we're comparing apples to oranges here. Vanilla fights were very rarely about any rotation. There was significant downtime to allow for threat generation and the sort. It was more about "long term" decisions than the second-to-second rotation. That's not to say the rotations were better, it was just different and the fact they were simpler didn't really matter in the big picture because the fight was about everything around you, not you and your spells.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

agro doesnt do anything to make fights more engaging, with how easy fights are in classic it doesnt matter, plus you just need to have threat meter installed to monitor it so threat is irrelevant.

There is no depth in classic chars, most classes have 2-3 useful abilties and an extra 1-2 for pvp situations thats it, a bad player with the same gear is going to be almost the same as a good player in the same gear.

Aggro requires you to slow down and switch people around when done right which adds variety. Blizzard failure to make the mechanic interesting is on them. If your aggro capped on a boss focus an add. You can have the highest and sturdiness dps off-tank for others as well during fights. Aggro is a way to make sure fights aren't just hit x den git da loot.

[agentsi]

One of my most missed things and worst changes Blizzard ever did in the history of the company was I think in Cataclysm they changed away from the awesome perfect strict rotation of one spell after another and went to this idiotic insanely stupid priority set up we currently have of hit this bell then jump around to another spell then click another spell and then click that spell.

Best thing ever is a straightforward rotation, one spell after another. And then rinse and repeat over again.

Isn't that the way it used to be? And is classic back to that way?

So you want a game so easy, that it takes zero challenge at all to do anything?

Why even play games at all? Just sit in the corner playing bingo by yourself. You win everytime! Just as easy as a 2-button rotation like in Classic... pathetic

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

So you want a game so easy, that it takes zero challenge at all to do anything?

Why even play games at all? Just sit in the corner playing bingo by yourself. You win everytime! Just as easy as a 2-button rotation like in Classic... pathetic

The rotation are more than two buttons there is down ranking and wanding. Mop had the best rotations in my opinion though. I just kind of hope they do something with wanding one day...

[schwank05]

One of my most missed things and worst changes Blizzard ever did in the history of the company was I think in Cataclysm they changed away from the awesome perfect strict rotation of one spell after another and went to this idiotic insanely stupid priority set up we currently have of hit this bell then jump around to another spell then click another spell and then click that spell.

Best thing ever is a straightforward rotation, one spell after another. And then rinse and repeat over again.

Isn't that the way it used to be? And is classic back to that way?

I completely agree I loved the set rotations, I miss Blood DPS DK so bad I had this shit down to a T. I also loved the good Ol 1 button BM hunter Macro in BC, just plain old fun.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

agro doesnt do anything to make fights more engaging, with how easy fights are in classic it doesnt matter, plus you just need to have threat meter installed to monitor it so threat is irrelevant.

There is no depth in classic chars, most classes have 2-3 useful abilties and an extra 1-2 for pvp situations thats it, a bad player with the same gear is going to be almost the same as a good player in the same gear.

That's because blizzard refuses to add one in-game. Also threat is immersive and adds realism. Aggro effects your rotation which is refreshing when done right rather than doing the something over and over again. It adds variables. Which is one of things I like about mythic affixes like explosive. If you're capped on a boss than focus the adds and vice versa.

[Twdft]

That's because blizzard refuses to add one in-game. Also threat is immersive and adds realism. Aggro effects your rotation which is refreshing when done right rather than doing the something over and over again. It adds variables. Which is one of things I like about mythic affixes like explosive. If you're capped on a boss than focus the adds and vice versa.

The problem with threat being a problem is that the solution is to do nothing.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

The problem with threat being a problem is that the solution is to do nothing.

Nah you can focus other objectives like adds or just boss mechanics. There are fights where killing adds drops damage buffs and someone who is capped on threat can focus on that rather than just hit the boss n get loot.

[Awsyme]

I don't know about DKs (and set rotations in general). My memory was macroing the entire rotation onto a single target and an aoe pair of buttons then just spamming them while watching stuff on my other monitor and topping the charts.

That's... not really a good thing and you can see why Blizzard tried to move towards procs to avoid people like me doing exactly that.

[deniter]

There is no depth in classic chars, most classes have 2-3 useful abilties and an extra 1-2 for pvp situations thats it, a bad player with the same gear is going to be almost the same as a good player in the same gear.

You couldn't be more wrong on this. Skilled PvP'er finds ways to utilize every single spell and skill he has and that makes a huge difference. I dare you to roll on Classic and duel some of the better players. You'll find out how little gear actually means against a well geared bad player.