No Ret Pallies

[Heathy]

a lot of the bosses don't enrage so it doesn't matter too much, vael is likely the first raid boss with an actual hard enrage, well you just flat out wipe after 3 minutes. nothing in molten core has an enrage afaik so you aren't against a clock on any boss in mc.

I think I remember doing ony with like 15 ppl but it took ages likely in combat for over half an hour. then there were raids like the 40 priests vs ony. not super surprising that was possible but still. if you can kill ony with 40 priests you can take any jumble of classes and specs on her and likely win. 40 palas would likely have trouble damaging her in the air, but 1 ret pala wouldn't make a whole lot of difference, neither would a boomkin or shadow priest.

[crusadernero]

we need more of these screenshots

pretty much proves that he gets away with it cause of his status in the community :P

Guys - level as a mix between ret/holy and heal dungeons. People will /w you ALOT and you will have no problem getting grps and guild.

[Wewlad]

Didn't someone report that SoR didn't proc things on Classic? If that ends up not being a bug and just the way Classic actually was wouldn't that just be the end for spelladin?

Spelladin relies on using Manual Crowd Pummeler. Yes, SoR not proccing things hurts some, but it wasn't the crux of the new Spelladin build. What is true is that SoR's damage remains static based on MCP's speed and doesn't adjust for the attack speed increase use effect.

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that is not a spelladin

that's just a ret pala....

people trying to redfine spelladin

stop

No, you stop with trying to pretend as though no theorycrafting progress has been made since 2005. Look at the new Spelladin resources. Even without SoR proccing stuff, we KNOW that Manual Crowd Pummeler works with SoR.

[Mukind]

Spelladin relies on using Manual Crowd Pummeler. Yes, SoR not proccing things hurts some, but it wasn't the crux of the new Spelladin build. What is true is that SoR's damage remains static based on MCP's speed and doesn't adjust for the attack speed increase use effect.

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No, you stop with trying to pretend as though no theorycrafting progress has been made since 2005. Look at the new Spelladin resources. Even without SoR proccing stuff, we KNOW that Manual Crowd Pummeler works with SoR.

i wasn't remembering it correctly it's shockadin not spelladin. So no he's not redfining it.

Still ret tho

[Wewlad]

i wasn't remembering it correctly it's shockadin not spelladin. So no he's not redfining it.

Still ret tho

Those are two different builds. Get your info straight before hopping on the Ret hate bandwagon like all these other followers.

[Ulthane]

Different abilities have different threat modifiers. Welcome to WoW.

Yes, of course why didn't I think about how white damage does mega threat XD

[munkeyinorbit]

What giant load of garbage. In vanilla, we cleared MC, BWL, AQ20, ZG, AQ40 & 2-3 wings of Naxx with a pair of Ret paladins in the guild runs at the minimum. Sometimes we had 3 ret paladins..

And that's why you didn't clear. Clearing naxx with 3 less dps makes it pretty tough back then.

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What about all the people including myself who had Rets in their guild and cleared stuff just fine?

Most decent groups can clear the content with at least 35/40 people.

Either way, the nice thing about Classic is that if you feel that strong about them, don’t invite to your groups. I’ll take some.

Exactly. Finally someone who agrees . Why bring dead weight that leeches gear when you can just go 35 man instead. Makes gearing more affordable and faster.

[Ermelloth]

Must admit, after reading this topic I seriously doubt if I should begin Vanilla at all.

I had my reservations before reserving char names already. Mained a Ret since TBC and I don't want to be forced to play other class / spec - if I am going into Classic, I am playing Ret, period.

However, now I've got even more reservations. To play something so hated, unwanted and bullied... I am not sure I can go through all this bullshit. Why not let people just enjoy their favorite class, why all this elitism? As if people play for salary or advancing in career.

Ret was created so people would play it, right? So, let people play it if they want. No need to make us scapegoats.

[Necromantic]

Must admit, after reading this topic I seriously doubt if I should begin Vanilla at all.

I had my reservations before reserving char names already. Mained a Ret since TBC and I don't want to be forced to play other class / spec - if I am going into Classic, I am playing Ret, period.

However, now I've got even more reservations. To play something so hated, unwanted and bullied... I am not sure I can go through all this bullshit. Why not let people just enjoy their favorite class, why all this elitism? As if people play for salary or advancing in career.

Ret was created so people would play it, right? So, let people play it if they want. No need to make us scapegoats.

Ignore the tryhard trolls. Classic is welcoming and you should play what you want. Those guys that act like dicks actually build that reputation and get denied invites. Some of them will say “nu uh! I always get invites!” They’re trying to calm their anxiety.

[Gaidax]

Must admit, after reading this topic I seriously doubt if I should begin Vanilla at all.

I had my reservations before reserving char names already. Mained a Ret since TBC and I don't want to be forced to play other class / spec - if I am going into Classic, I am playing Ret, period.

However, now I've got even more reservations. To play something so hated, unwanted and bullied... I am not sure I can go through all this bullshit. Why not let people just enjoy their favorite class, why all this elitism? As if people play for salary or advancing in career.

Ret was created so people would play it, right? So, let people play it if they want. No need to make us scapegoats.

I played Paladin whole Vanilla and it baffles me why people like Necromantic think that somehow it's going to be all different this time around. If anything it will be even worse, because people have much more awareness right now.


Ret was a joke in Vanilla for PvE, I was in a good guild with great progress back then and "Paladin DPS" quite literally was a guild a joke, not kidding you. Word spreads fast and in every group PvE activity there is a shortlist of things people want in their dungeons or are at least acceptable - and DPS paladin is simply not one of those things.

What's even worse - because you can't really flip flop specs due to respect costs, you will eventually find yourself to be hard locked into healing spec and be cursed to be a healbot in raids.

By the end of AQ, just before Naxx, I was so fed up with this shit that I rolled alt warlock - my main in sig I use to this day - it was a fucking bliss. On the other hand I simply refuse to even think about healing ever since, because it was literally a trauma from being forced to do this as Paladin in Vanilla.


So yes, here is my personal warning - just don't do it. Heck, "Ret" gameplay is so lame that you will be dying of boredom and frustration (literally pure RNG damage output) AND having this whole pressure to be healbot all around you AND all the jokes and shit. Just no point doing it to yourself - the thing is simply never becoming worth it in Vanilla.

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Remember that you indeed can play whatever you want, but it does not mean that others will want to play with whatever you want and this is a critical issue in Vanilla where others are much more critical to your success in any sort of activity.

[Ermelloth]

Then off with Vanilla.

When this gets upgraded to TBC or WoTLK, then I will set my foot on it. Not before.

I have little patience for elitist retards, considering my advancing age. There is a fine WoTLK private server which suits me just fine for now, perhaps I will just stay there when I am bored of 8.2

[potis]

Then off with Vanilla.

When this gets upgraded to TBC or WoTLK, then I will set my foot on it. Not before.

I have little patience for elitist retards, considering my advancing age. There is a fine WoTLK private server which suits me just fine for now, perhaps I will just stay there when I am bored of 8.2

Its not about elitist retards, its the reality.

Vanilla has RPG elements mix of the previous generation of DnD games, dumbed down so it wouldnt be insanely retardely slow for 2005.

The excuse for Paladin is that "You will buff, and heal slightly and DPS slightly" thats what a Paladin is, and thats how it was designed.

You can do multiple things, but master of none (Well, Buffing?) but in reality because of how Vanilla is designed, with downranking and spell power you become a beast healer eventually.

And thats it, blame the RPG element design.

Your response is LITERALLY WORD TO WORD what the 99% of Paladins (That had a clue, so very few in the end But their opinion matters more than Billy that took 12 months to reach 60, right clicking mobs) said in end of Vanilla.

They started fixing Ret, then at the end of TBC the outcry was so insane cause they got tired of "Only one for mana regeneration", but we have other classes for that, so fuck Paladins completely, and the design shifted at WoTLK to "Yeah, fixing all classes to do shit, time to ignore RPG elements".

Retribution Paladin and Shamans are literally like 90% the reason the game shifted from RPG elements to "Everyone can do decently at what they are supposed to do".

But the majority doesnt know this because they werent the ones experiencing the problem, they didnt care because they didnt know better.

I mean, i still remember a friend of a close friend, getting his Kalimdor's Revenge on his Paladin after being denied 2hands for a long time, and Rank 12 so couldnt buy one proper, after healing for months, and getting so happy, went to WSG with the same people he was always going as a healer to finally "Have some fun".

Only problem is, Rank 14s/13s premades, that played 24/7 and where decked out in mix of Rank14/AQ40/Naxx gear, knew better.

He got kited, 2-3 shotted by the Rank 14 Warriors, something that couldnt happen before, because Prot/Holy spec with Shield, doesnt die as fast.

He quit the game the same week, hasnt played WoW since, was sad to see(Think it has more to do with the rest people in the net cafe trolling him rather than the game, but ) and the fact he spent 1.5 years trying to do something that wasnt worth it, pretty sure he went to work for his father after though and got more serious in life, so Retri Paladin does have that benefit!

Wish i was exaggerating also

[taishar68]

Then off with Vanilla.

When this gets upgraded to TBC or WoTLK, then I will set my foot on it. Not before.

I have little patience for elitist retards, considering my advancing age. There is a fine WoTLK private server which suits me just fine for now, perhaps I will just stay there when I am bored of 8.2

While I can't refute what most people say about Ret damage and its place in the game, I will say this; don't give up because of what you read here.

Reach out and look at some of the other people playing the game; I will wager a good many have no concerns over people playing whatever spec they want. I talk with a few every day

[Gaidax]

He got kited, 2-3 shotted by the Rank 14 Warriors

Oh yeah, Warriors with full AQ40/Naxx gear were insane. I remember dueling my guildie DPS warrior as 21/0/30 Paladin back in those days... the damage he put out was unreal - I literally had to have all my CDs up and hope for the best to win - he simply sliced through something like 3 HP bars of my health before getting low HP himself.

And I wasn't wearing rags either. The damage difference was immense. Dueling-wise it was quite equal ground, simply because I could reset fight 2-3 times and he had enough damage to force me do this and then it was down to luck on my part with procs, but when he went to PvP and I healbotted him - it was insane - he literally destroyed people.

[munkeyinorbit]

I mean you have room for 40 people in raids and most Vanilla raids are killable with less than 20 people. That's enough room for 20 ret palas.

Just go with 20 so you don't waste gear on ret pallidins. Why not 20 holy pallidins? Close to the same dps but actually useful. Ret is the shittest dps in the game and lose to pets. Ret will never be used in naxx cause they will never get the gear to do it.

[potis]

Oh yeah, Warriors with full AQ40/Naxx gear were insane. I remember dueling my guildie DPS warrior as 21/0/30 Paladin back in those days... the damage he put out was unreal - I literally had to have all my CDs up and hope for the best to win - he simply sliced through something like 3 HP bars of my health before getting low HP himself.

And I wasn't wearing rags either. The damage difference was immense. Dueling-wise it was quite equal ground, simply because I could reset fight 2-3 times and he had enough damage to force me do this and then it was down to luck on my part with procs, but when he went to PvP and I healbotted him - it was insane - he literally destroyed people.

Its just how terrible the game was, but at the same time its simply what that period was.

Wasnt any different with how i experienced Paladins, that annoying class that would always do the same.

Ran up to me.
HoJ.
Seal of Command for some pathetic value.
If it was Rank 14 Weapon and everything critted after the judgement/auto attack i would be around 50% of so, so averagely 3k damage from an equally geared Paladin.
Which would happen once every week to actually go that low, reality was more like 70% after everything.
Proceed to 3 shot.
He would then do the same thing but with bubble on while running to me.
Repeat to 3 shot.

And when i didnt get 2 crits in a row which would result in them usually surviving about 20%, bubble, heal-->Some pathetic judgement-->End.
Avoid me for the rest of the BG.

[Sezh]

Just go with 20 so you don't waste gear on ret pallidins. Why not 20 holy pallidins? Close to the same dps but actually useful. Ret is the shittest dps in the game and lose to pets. Ret will never be used in naxx cause they will never get the gear to do it.

Well I can bet you Asmongold will use ret pallies in Naxx. I get your point, but considering most (if we use retail as a measuring stick) heroic-quality guilds with enough time and effort will easily clear Naxx, I'm sure there are guilds out there who will accept a few ret pallies.

[Majestic12]

I played the game since January of 2005. I have the Benediction to prove it. https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ch...eden/gabriaell

Note that this isn't my main (on retail) and I retired my priest back in BC. I played again briefly in Legion as my Priest.

I was stating when I started actually playing really hardcore. Vanilla was NOT harder than Mythic raiding. Sorry. I've done both and I can tell you that Vanilla, while not a push over, is a lot more forgiving than any Mythic boss.

Great. You're at top paladin on a 15 year old game! Congrats on a private server top player!

I know EXACTLY how bring the Class not the Player goes. I was playing Ret in BC as the only Ret in my raids because I brought a good attitude, knowledge about my class, and I was proving my worth to scouting guilds.

Yes, there is a huge difference in Vanilla Ret vs BC Ret. I never once said they are the top choice at all. I have just said that they aren't as much of a burden as people like you claim. It doesn't really fucking matter what the "top guilds" pick. Top guilds always stack the overpowered classes. Does that make other's completely obsolete? No.

40 Priests killed Onyxia back in Vanilla. People 5 manned Onyxia before AQ was even out. It's completely acceptable to bring in some less than optimal specs.

Btw, hope you feel like a dumbo now that warriors are proven completely superior to Prot paladins.

[Coldfrostzero]

Btw, hope you feel like a dumbo now that warriors are proven completely superior to Prot paladins.

I have never ever once said prot paladins were in any way better than prot warriors. Where have I ever stated that? The only thing prot paladins have an advantage in over druid and warrior is AOE threat and being able to take multiple fast hits with a longer up-time on their block mechanic (which obviously druid doesn't have one at all). Does that somehow make them superior? No. Can a warrior and druid tank AOE threat? Absolutely. No opinion in any of those statements.

You're lying to everyone if you say that you can't allow non-top tier specs in your raid. It has been proven many times throughout the history of Vanilla itself that you can do so. Is it going to be the fastest clear with the least amount of problems? No. Some of us are okay with that. Maybe you should let it go and just ignore those of us who understand the game in a less narrow way. Don't join a guild with a less than elitist attitude and you'll be fine dude. Meanwhile, I'll be over here playing prot paladin and actually enjoying the challenge.

[Rajej]

Just FYI in case any newbies are coming to classic or returning vanilla people hoping this time "it will be different". It won't be. Ret pallies will still not be allowed in 5 mans and definitely won't get any raid spots. Just be warned if you intent to spec ret be prepared to play solo. You will also not be appreciated Q'ing into BGs, and definitely won't be getting into any premades.

That's especially true for horde players.