People that already stopped playing classic, why did you stop?

[Atrea]

People cried for no changes and then everyone (including the holier-than-thou streamers) started using addons that make the experience more bfa-like. Classic died at the start with that.

Hate to break it to you, but addons were a thing since then, too.

Some of them have evolved, but nothing stands out as completely different from what was available then, aside from cosmetically.

[Drekmar]

Hate to break it to you, but addons were a thing since then, too.

Some of them have evolved, but nothing stands out as completely different from what was available then, aside from cosmetically.

They werent that elaborate at the start, literally only thing that is missing are heirlooms and the leveling is the same as bfa.

[Bodakane]

EXACTLY, which is why the numbers dropped...

If you were trying to make some kind of point then you would have said that numbers dropped before QoL BS...but that DIDN'T happen
Are things starting to make sense now?

Sigh no.

Numbers were at their peak AFTER numerous changes were made for QoL, like in WotLK.

Stop rewriting history.

[Oakshana]

EXACTLY, which is why the numbers dropped...

If you were trying to make some kind of point then you would have said that numbers dropped before QoL BS...but that DIDN'T happen
Are things starting to make sense now?

Bull-fucking-shit.

- Numbers did not drop when flying was implemented in TBC.
- Numbers did not drop when all Hybrid specs were made viable in TBC.
- Numbers did not drop when material stack amounts were increased.
- Numbers did not drop when AOE looting was implemented.
- Numbers did not drop when the hunters dead zone was removed.
- Numbers did not drop when ammo and reagents were removed.
- Numbers did not drop when soulshards became stackable.

In fact, I cannot think of a single number of QOL implementations that caused a drop in subs.

What DID cause drops in subs?

- Lack of content.
- End game content dragging on too long.
- Class pruning.
- Class homogenization.
- Talent tree "simplification"

And that last one is just bullshit anyway. All they did was natively bake in the +% to crit/hit/damage talents that EVERYONE took anyway. People just love to complain. They complained because Blizzard took away their ability to click a + sign every level. Which... I will admit, taking away a seeming reward each level is a valid complaint.

Other than that, stop your baseless claiming.

[Ielenia]

Yes that's exactly what I said.

I'm glad you agree, and I hope you are now sufficiently informed so you do not accidentally engage with such fallacious statements in the future.

[stevenho]

Hate to break it to you, but addons were a thing since then, too.

Some of them have evolved, but nothing stands out as completely different from what was available then, aside from cosmetically.

99% of todays addons didn't exist until months after vanilla launch.
So yeah - "nothing stands out as completely different from what was available then".

[Xaviaton]

The weekend is probably gonna be worse. Best time to log in is 6-11am eastern

I can imagine this as well, I'm EU but at least I know that I can queue up when I get up then kind of plan my day from that. My main problem for the weekdays is that I cannot log in before 5-6 PM. I assume I'm not alone in this time as I see the queues pop up at this time. At the weekend I'm at home at least! Also, today I started at the same day as yesterday and I was 2.8k in queue instead of 5k so...progress?

[schwank05]

Sheesh, people are stopping already? I just got into the Realm for the first time last night. I think I somehow lucked out and through some blip slipped right past the 14K Q and got right into Whitemane for the first time and got 9 levels in all I can say is wow, World of Warcraft is back baby I cannot wait to play some more, I had more fun leveling to 9 last night than I have had in Retail in the last 4 expansions combined. People run by you and buff you up I have made 2 friends already just leveling with people out in the world, its everything I wanted it to be.

[Sensa1]

Love this mad Classic Fanbois feeling personelly insulted over not liking their new old game.

4) My wife never played Vanilla and was curious to try it. So i played alongside her. However...i stopped after Lvl 6 and told her she has to play alone, because its boring me to hell. She refused btw, because she also feels like its just and old and bad version of the game she loves.

well playing with your wife is a good reason...but your original post was the typical hater stuff without that context...don't personally care you don't like the game..I can't stand retail but I don't bother with the Retail threads anymore because I no longer play it and it's a) not relevant to me and b) pointless and I'd go so far as to say petty to keep repeating my distaste for it.

If someone started a similar thread about BFA I wouldn't respond to it because they are most often bait threads and the quicker more people stop taking the bait and/or assume their perspective about the other version of the game they don't play is relevant the better we all will be. This is especially true of Classic because it ain't going to change. There may be some slight justification to comment on BFA if there was a significant change and a person tried it and didn't like it but that the only scenario I can think of for people to keep commenting about the version of the game they don't like and knew they wouldn't.

[Fred Skinner]

They werent that elaborate at the start, literally only thing that is missing are heirlooms and the leveling is the same as bfa.

But.. the community!

[Drekmar]

But.. the community!

Looks like the community was just a shill word.

[Sensa1]

Keywords being AS YOU OBTAIN MORE SKILLS/TALENTS. But why then pack groups of mobs so densely with such a large agro range in low level zones when people have not obtained the means to counter it then? Like you pull one mob and if you move more than 5 feet in a direction while fighting you risk pulling 2 or 3 mobs.

And I'm not advocating for AoE fest where you pull 10 mobs, just the inability of most classes to deal with even 3 mobs on a level adequate quest. That just seems artificially slowed down so people take more time to level. Not to mention how repetitive it is. Now I never once mentioned that retail leveling is perfect, it is too easy, but still better than the snorefest that is classic.

And lets dial back to 8.2 release when people were complaining about the dificulty of mobs in Nazjatar and how pulling more than 2 or 3 would kill them, I, or other people in my guild had no issue with that since we were more skillful in our classes so we could deal with the mobs no problem (same was with 7.2 and 7.3 release). Sure once you outgear the content its just an AoE fest, but up until then it's not (and probably same case on classic max level to where you can just go into any zone and pull without issue once you outgear it).

All I'm saying is that leveling in classic is way too dull and boring and requires no skill at all, just a bit of attention and luck that a patrol wont come in while you're fighting. Some people might enjoy that, I just answered the original post and gave my opinion on the matter.

And yes, I and others I know enjoyed BfA way more than classic and got bored after 2 days of leveling or so.

I'm all for you enjoying BFA more....think that's fine and dandy

But that's the fundamental difference between Classic and Retail...you have to pay attention in Classic...You have to manage mana etc and decide if you should pull another mob or eat...and Classic was about the journey not the destination...it had 60 zones...it was a massive world you had to walk in...it was meant to be time consuming...and mob density was meant to teach you situational awareness, aggro range, mana / resource management all things that are core game concepts in higher end content as well as take time and effort to reach an objective. Dying in Classic while levelling was a teaching/game tutorial moment that taught you game concepts as well as how to play your character.

[Big Thanks]

They werent that elaborate at the start, literally only thing that is missing are heirlooms and the leveling is the same as bfa.

Best joke i ever heard i died a crap ton of times while levleing. a CRAP ton of times.

- - - Updated - - -

But.. the community!

Can you do this in retail?

https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/...m_the_bag_man/

No you cant.
Yes community, thanks, bye

[Fred Skinner]

Can you do this in retail?

Yes, you also can create bags for free for others if you want in retail.

- - - Updated - - -

Looks like the community was just a shill word.

No, that cant be. Everyone knows that the original classic was full of good people and everyone was each others friend. At least, if you believe all the Pathos on this subforum.

[Big Thanks]

Yes, you also can create bags for free for others if you want in retail.

/trade
*Warning: Cant trade items with players from another server*
/logout BfA

/login Classic WoW
/trade with everyone

[babyback]

Vanilla: subscriptions grew somewhat 2.5 millions per year
TBC: subscriptions grew 2 millions per year
WoTLK: subscription growth stopped
When did things go wrong?

I can't believe I have to explain such simple logic. Are you like a kid thinking that only the biggest number matter? It's business 101, you dont need an MBA to know these things.

Or people just moved on to other games. WoW was what Fortnite is today. It was THE game to play. Then people moved in to LoL or whatever it was.

[Fred Skinner]

/login Classic WoW

*wait for 400 minutes to get logged in*

/trade with everyone

* wait one minute for the lag for everyone*



Truth versus Pathos. Truth wins.

[Drekmar]

Best joke i ever heard i died a crap ton of times while levleing. a CRAP ton of times.

All that it says is that you are crap at the game.

[Nattwenny]

I had to go to work. But at work I wrote my RP character's history out.

[Apexis]

Blizzard listened to people like you when they made retail wow and lost 70% of their subscribers. The least you could do is let 70% have fun now that their game is back.

The more I read this line, the more fallacies I find. I didn't know it was possible to cram so many fallacies together like this. Bravo.

Here are some of them:
• Implying the loss of subscribers is solely due to the QoL and other "player requested" changes;
• Implying every single subscriber that left over the years will return for Classic;
• Implying every single subscriber that left over the years even like Vanilla WoW;
• Implying every single QoL change done is bad.

Yes, all the forums back then were not only asking, but demanding changes. QoL's had little to nothing to do with the subs or the community going into the toilet. The community was doing a good enough job of taking itself down in the toilet. The ego-driven people cannot keep themselves in check and the idiots down in the gutter made life equally difficult in the middle. Both ends of the spectrum helped to turn the community into what it is today and has been for at least the 12 years I have played this game since the beginning of BC. Some of these changes Blizzard went too far, but many of them improved the game over time and made it more tolerable and enjoyable to play.

Not everyone enjoyed carrying candles and bullet, leveling pets, and all the rest of the nonsense that took one away from actually playing the game. I would rather level without having to stop to feed my pet or eat or drink to replenish my mana as a hunter. When they removed all that, I could spend more time playing the game. Oh, and when they removed bullets and arrows, I did not have to worry about having to stop and either go make some or go buy some, which also had taken me away from actually playing the game.

The LFD, especially when Blizzard made it cross-realm more than showed the true underbelly to all that played the game in all their little groups and bubble mentality. If they ran a dungeon through the LFD, they had to get slapped square in the face with the many people that I was constantly having to interact with both in and out of dungeons. Course their egos as they were made the conditions worse, not better. People arguing back and forth, eventually, someone would leave or the tank and/or healer would leave and I would either have to sit there and wait for the group to fill or queue up for another run.

Oh, and to the people that say you can make your groups and go to the dungeons yourself or run with guildmates and all the other nonsense. Well, yes I could do all those things, though back then I had more responsibilities, young children to take to various places and drive back and forth from taking them to school. I was both working and going to school. So back then my playing time was very tight. I did not have all the time in the world to put groups of people together and hope like hell everyone stayed for an entire dungeon run.

If there was truly 70% that did not want change back then Blizzard would have never made half of the changes they were forced into making, because if the shortcomings of the community itself. Blizzard saw the trends for the LFD needing to be put into the game long before they ever did so. There was an entire block of people not running dungeons at all. Most of them did PVP, questing, farming, dailies, and I was one of them. I was nowhere close to the player I am today. I sucked and I knew, but there was no way I was going to subject myself to people that were rude, ignorant, most of the time downright nasty to people that were not good or just started play more seriously over time, and I was both of those at one time.

When I make a post like this, many replies that the game they played was nothing like I am describing. Well, they were in their little bubbles or niche groups and did not play or subject themselves to anyone that their ego just could not handle and possessed the necessity to tear people down, instead of extending a hand. I was always one of the latter. My beginning in this game and my life, in general, have taught me that not everyone is the same and not everyone strives to be the best of the best.

Especially in a game they are trying to relax, blow off the stresses of the day, only to log in having to be confronted with the same level of BS they had all day long at work or their life that day. A game should be an escape from reality for just a spell. Enjoying a dungeon or questing a few levels, running a battleground, farming, dailies, or whatever else a person enjoys doing just to get a period of peace in their day for an hour or two.

I got tired of dealing with the endless dirtbags from either side of the cesspool whether they were elitist or problem children that loved nothing more than pissing in other people's cornflakes. What I did is change the way I played the game, I avoided more and more group content, so I did not have to waste time. I would rather take the time to level through a zone I have quested through 20 times before than run a dungeon with people that were hell-bent on wasting time.

Blizzard did this game a favor when they put LFD into the game. It exposed all the various things that were wrong with the community. The things I had seen and had to deal with from the very beginning of playing WoW. No one could any longer ignore the obvious that was the true reality of the player base in this game.

So no, QoL's were not the problem, they became the scapegoat for those that just would not come to terms with the reality that a massive part of this player base was absolute crap in every possible way. Oh, and for those that blame the no longer talking on Blizzard. People stopped talking because they got tired of being treated like crap by many other people for no other reason than they could and would be nasty to other people to feel some sense of superiority over less-skilled players. The community, not Blizzard made the bed on the level of toxic behavior they displayed to other players.