Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[Lorgar Aurelian]

If you don't know how the casino planet was literal agenda that you ACTUALLY LISTED in your post, I don't know how that works in your mind. It's literally anti rich, bringing up animal cruelty and oppression of the lower class.

So are part of some sort of satanic order or something that gets offended that a movie is pushing against your values of slavery war profiteering and animal cruelty? That’s really the only way I can see some one thinking any of that is a agenda.

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I disagree, trusting a single shot to the force and the force guiding you through single combat with an experienced force user is a poor comparison. The fact Fin is alive after his encounter with Kylo is equally annoying. They make Kylo as powerful as the scene requires. There’s no consistency with him.

Kylo is actually consistently strong. He takes a blast from chewy then while bleeding out is still able to play with Finn before he slips up and takes another hit before recking Finn.

By the time he’s fighting Rey he’s taken two wounds lost blood from the first and is still able to hold his own. All of this while he doesn’t have the strongest grip on the force as killing Han shook him up instead of giving him a dark side boost.

[ConstantinetheGreat]

Kylo is actually consistently strong. He takes a blast from chewy then while bleeding out is still able to play with Finn before he slips up and takes another hit before recking Finn.

By the time he’s fighting Rey he’s taken two wounds lost blood from the first and is still able to hold his own. All of this while he doesn’t have the strongest grip on the force as killing Han shook him up instead of giving him a dark side boost.

I acknowledge your points and even used some of them when defending TFA soon after it was released, I just gained a more negative view of the sequence after the initial euphoria of watching people swinging lightsabers at each-other wore off. I actually don’t mind the dynamic of Rey getting stronger as Kylo gets weaker, I just think it was rushed. Kylo unraveled super quick. Compare it to Vader, where he was an unstoppable badass for two straight movies. We didn’t get a hint of doubt in him until the closing scenes of Empire. It made his defeat and redemption that much more satisfying as we’d spent two movies being terrified of him.

Anyways, Kylo is still my favorite character of the new films as there’s real depth to him and they might bring his arc to a satisfying conclusion. They might not too though as I think the rest of the characters are rather uninteresting.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I acknowledge your points and even used some of them when defending TFA soon after it was released, I just gained a more negative view of the sequence after the initial euphoria of watching people swinging lightsabers at each-other wore off. I actually don’t mind the dynamic of Rey getting stronger as Kylo gets weaker, I just think it was rushed. Kylo unraveled super quick. Compare it to Vader, where he was an unstoppable badass for two straight movies. We didn’t get a hint of doubt in him until the closing scenes of Empire. It made his defeat and redemption that much more satisfying as we’d spent two movies being terrified of him.

Anyways, Kylo is still my favorite character of the new films as there’s real depth to him and they might bring his arc to a satisfying conclusion. They might not too though as I think the rest of the characters are rather uninteresting.

The fact that kylo unravels is what makes him a perfect Vader stand in though. Unless they were gonna go full fan fic levels of throwing star destroyers around they would never beat Vader on the bad ass scale but kylo takes it in a different direction.

With Vader we had a tried and tested warrior who had been trained from a young age in war and who’s only family connections were cut short leading him more and more into the dark side.

Kylo on the other hand was brought up in a time of peace with a loving family who instead of losing he felt betrayed by. He try’s to follow Vader’s path without knowing why Vader went down it he has all the power and more of Vader but he doesn’t have the training or experience and doesn’t actually know what real loss is like Vader did.

Though out both of the movies we don’t see a sith or even a Jedi falling to the dark we see a guy who has no idea what’s he's doing but is still trying to force him self down the dark path any way as it’s what he thinks he has to do even if he doesn’t belong.

[Fantomen]

She's literally FLOWN THE FALCON before. She's the one who's made mods to it, which is why she knows more about its current setup than Han Solo, who hasn't seen it for a decade or something.

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So Rey is a straving scrap hunter who work for food scrap... but somhowe have time to fly (legendary) spaceship and modifies them to. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Endus]

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So Rey is a straving scrap hunter who work for food scrap... but somhowe have time to fly (legendary) spaceship and modifies them to. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

The Falcon may be legendary, but the ship class itself is just a cargo hauler.

And part of what Rey did for work involved helping with repairs and such. Including with the Falcon. Which nobody knew was the Millenium Falcon. At a glance, it could be any YT-1300 Corellian light freighter. The ship model isn't unique, at all.

It's less of a leap than "flying an X-wing in space uses the same controls as flying a T-16 Skyhopper in atmosphere" that we got given with Luke. Which is kind of like saying "Sure, you can fly the SR-71 Blackbird. You've flown a Cessna before, right? Same thing!"

[Lorgar Aurelian]

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So Rey is a straving scrap hunter who work for food scrap... but somhowe have time to fly (legendary) spaceship and modifies them to. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Of course Rey can work as a scav and work on an old junk ship that’s literally her whole job.

[tyrlaan]

Honestly, had TFA dropped before the anti-SJW horseshit took over the internet, this trilogy would have probably gone down as "meh, it's just more Star Wars."

Or maybe it's just the internet and outrage culture in general... Because people flipped the fuck out over them daring to make the Mandarin in IM3 a red herring (in much the same way people seem to be personally offended about what they did with Luke's character), even though I thought that was probably the best part of an otherwise forgettable movie.

Bingo.

/10char

[RobertoCarlos]

Bingo.

/10char

Yes outrage culture is why people were mad Leia turned into Jean Grey and The movie said everything about Jedi/sith is wrong and was dumb.

Wonder why people would get upset at being told their religion is dumb.

Also if Brie Larson can skate past with basmati blues without anyone in the west hearing about that racist pos movie then outrage culture isnt as bad as everyone makes out. Remember its a tiny portion of the net

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Yes outrage culture is why people were mad Leia turned into Jean Grey and The movie said everything about Jedi/sith is wrong and was dumb.

Wonder why people would get upset at being told their religion is dumb.

Um Jedi and sith aren’t real religions.

[tyrlaan]

Yes outrage culture is why people were mad Leia turned into Jean Grey and The movie said everything about Jedi/sith is wrong and was dumb.

Wonder why people would get upset at being told their religion is dumb.

Also if Brie Larson can skate past with basmati blues without anyone in the west hearing about that racist pos movie then outrage culture isnt as bad as everyone makes out. Remember its a tiny portion of the net

Good job cherry picking examples to try to shoot down reality!

Neither I nor the person I quoted said the movie is without fault. Hell, it's very, very far from without fault. But there's a difference between having issues with the film and "TLJ destroyed my childhood and is such a shitstain on all existence on this planet that I can never again watch another SW film because someone needs to learn a lesson through the power of my $10, and I will carry this trauma with me until my last dying breath and be sure to rage as hard as possible everywhere I can be heard because this was an affront to society as we know it and all involved must burn in eternal damnation for this cardinal sin of a film!"

I've agreed with others here, it's better than Eps1-3, but that's it. I don't know about you, but Eps 1-3 were pretty shittastic to me, so this isn't high marks for TLJ. But I also know what I'm getting into with a SW movie, so, meh.

Also:

Um Jedi and sith aren’t real religions.

[eschatological]

Yes outrage culture is why people were mad Leia turned into Jean Grey and The movie said everything about Jedi/sith is wrong and was dumb.

Wonder why people would get upset at being told their religion is dumb.

Also if Brie Larson can skate past with basmati blues without anyone in the west hearing about that racist pos movie then outrage culture isnt as bad as everyone makes out. Remember its a tiny portion of the net

Basmati Blues is based on actual, real, Nobel-prize winning agricultural work where genetically-modified rice was introduced to India. It was done in a poor, shitty way, but oh well.

As an Indian, I can tell you it generated a lot of outrage....in India. The movie meant nothing here, and it's only been picked up by the anti-SJW crowd precisely because it stars Brie Larson and they want to use it as some sort of example of being okay with racism. Its box office total was $15k. Not million, FIFTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS. In the U.S., it was only released on video on demand.

This is the 2nd or 3rd time you've brought up this movie (you brought it up back in the Captain Marvel thread), and it just shows you the bad faith argument you're trying to make. People aren't ignoring the racism in this movie, practically NO ONE outside of India has seen it. Who's outraged now?

Edit: In fact, if I wasn't Indian, and didn't have lots of family still living in India, I probably would have never heard of this movie either.

[Jastall]

Yall have been on to something that last page or two.

EVERY episode is full of bad dialogue, weird storytelling, questionable decisions. Maybe less so in ESB, but every single episode, because thats SW. Its always been a bit off (cant think of a good word now), and thats why you love it or hate it.

ANH - full of plotholes and not an original thought anywhere except the setting.
RotJ - All over the place...Ewoks...
TPM - The bad guy is not so big and bad. Cringy dialogue. Strange morality. Deus Ex Anakin. Sell all the toys.
AotC - Hot garbage. Cant even sell toys.
RotS - Lets just skip over a major war and try to cram all the consequences of it into one movie. Terrible direction (actors did their best though). Fight scenes that aged terribly
TFA - Its ANH on the other side of the galaxy.
TLJ - The edgy episode.Two-hour chase movie that ended exactly how you should've expected.

All SW movies have that SW quirk to them. So why people suddenly want to place and judge SW on a pedestal its never been on is trash and hilarious. All the movies are corny.
I watch SW expecting SW. Not some high sci-fi, I don't need everything to make sense. I want to see cool ships go fast, lasers, some pew-pew, bad guys in dope outfits, heroes pull some crazy move out of their ass to save the day. Thats what makes SW fun. You're either down with it or youre not.

Indeed. Maybe it's because I was never a Star Wars fan (too young to have seen the OT around the time it came out, too old to be amazed by the prequels when they did like my cousin was) but I never found it to be anything special in terms of story. It's got an iconic look and setting for sure, but that's the extent of what's special about Star Wars and Disney has been if anything almost too faithful as far as that's concerned, certainly far moreso than the prequels. So long as spaceships explode, lightsabers chop up mooks and heroes save the day, I get what I pay for.

Thus it's bizarre to see people attempting to pick apart every single possible inconsistency and plot holes with the newest film of a franchise which started by throwing some farmboy into a top-of-the-line space fighter and have him blow up a moon-sized space station because he has magical space Buddhist powers, and only got more ridiculous from there.

[Fayolynn]

It shows kylo didn’t go full dark side as planned when he killed Han, kylo becomes his own master and master of the first order by killing snoke.

So Kylo didn't go full evil despite doing exactly what every Sith Apprentice does to their Master?

I mean come on. Darth Vader's pitch to Luke was "Hey son join me, lets kill the Emperor and take over the empire together."

[Kyphael]

So Kylo didn't go full evil despite doing exactly what every Sith Apprentice does to their Master?

If we're being technical, Vader killed his master too. So a Sith apprentice killing their master doesn't always mean they went full evil.

[Fayolynn]

If we're being technical, Vader killed his master too. So a Sith apprentice killing their master doesn't always mean they went full evil.

Yes, in that case he killed Palpatine to save Luke. Prior to that he wanted to kill Palpatine to take over.

[Volatilis]

Um Jedi and sith aren’t real religions.

Identifying as Jedi or Sith is just as valid as any other religion. Its even listed on some government forms as a religion.

Anyway point is, turning luke into a murderer because he had a nightmare and then saying that the Jedi is bad is quite a 180 turn from previous films

theres reasons people are upset beyond "i HaVe tO hAtE EvErYtHiNG bCoS 2019"

[Kyphael]

Yes, in that case he killed Palpatine to save Luke. Prior to that he wanted to kill Palpatine to take over.

Too bad Sidious was Vader's mental superior. He had the same plan, to replace Vader with Luke, which means Vader was a moron because Sidious kept trying to get Vader to persuade Luke to join them, and Vader kept saying "yes, master" instead of going, "hey wait a second, are you trying to replace me!?" So either Vader knew, was playing dumb or going along with it, and was ready to whip out the Lightsaber to slash Sidious in half the moment Luke turned, or Vader was stupid, didn't know the rule of 2 which is well established among Sith and thought they'd rule as a trio.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Identifying as Jedi or Sith is just as valid as any other religion. Its even listed on some government forms as a religion.

Anyway point is, turning luke into a murderer because he had a nightmare and then saying that the Jedi is bad is quite a 180 turn from previous films

theres reasons people are upset beyond "i HaVe tO hAtE EvErYtHiNG bCoS 2019"

are they really counted as government religions?

also the jedi are pretty bad which is rather evident if you look at them in the prequels.

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Too bad Sidious was Vader's mental superior. He had the same plan, to replace Vader with Luke, which means Vader was a moron because Sidious kept trying to get Vader to persuade Luke to join them, and Vader kept saying "yes, master" instead of going, "hey wait a second, are you trying to replace me!?" So either Vader knew, was playing dumb or going along with it, and was ready to whip out the Lightsaber to slash Sidious in half the moment Luke turned, or Vader was stupid, didn't know the rule of 2 which is well established among Sith and thought they'd rule as a trio.

in both the old and new canon vader knew palp was going to replace him, i don't think there is any reason given why he acts so dumb in return.

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So Kylo didn't go full evil despite doing exactly what every Sith Apprentice does to their Master?

I mean come on. Darth Vader's pitch to Luke was "Hey son join me, lets kill the Emperor and take over the empire together."

killing your master doesn't make you evil.

[Shadowferal]

Yes outrage culture is why people were mad Leia turned into Jean Grey and The movie said everything about Jedi/sith is wrong and was dumb.

Wonder why people would get upset at being told their religion is dumb.

I prefer the "honest trailer" name of "Carrie Poppins."

are they really counted as government religions?

Well, The Temple of the Jedi Order, based in Beaumont, Texas, is recognised as a charitable or non-profit group by the US Internal Revenue Service.

[Belize]

Well, The Temple of the Jedi Order, based in Beaumont, Texas, is recognised as a charitable or non-profit group by the US Internal Revenue Service.

No wait, what the fuck, I live in Beaumont and have never heard of these guys!?