We were right, here is why Classic has been so awesome..

[Grogo]

Here is why Classic has been so great

There’s always tangible progression. Everything is a threat from 1-60, but you start to get more and more tools, your character grows. The amount of immersion in this game is insane. The feeling of being a fucking nobody trying to survive and get powerful. When you’re the zero wanting to be the hero everything is challenging. Being the hero means you know you’ll win.

The flow of the game. The game from the ground up is designed to encourage players to group up and help each other. To share knowledge and resources and to help those who are behind to catch up.

Classic is harder, unforgiving and can be frustrating, but once you achieve your goal it feels great. That sense of accomplishment is addicting. Leveling takes time. Progress takes time. Means you put more time and get stuff from hard work. Leveling actually feels like a challenging experience instead of a boring rush to max level.

It's an mmo plus rpg again, a plus 1 stat means something, you notice the difference, you feel the difference. The classes have their own unique pros & cons, separating them from each other. Professions actually mean something now as gold is extremely hard to come by.

It has been an awesome experience so far, the world is bustling and active. The players have been great. I had high expectations and it has exceeded them.

EDIT:

You have Retail players saying Retail is better, they are right. It's right for them.

You have Classic players saying Classic is better, they are right. It is best for them.

Really that is all it is. The only difference is im not in retail forums yelling classic is better. You have your team and in most cases I do not trust teams of any sorts. Enjoy your retail, I will not hate on it and won't come over there to deliberately hate on it. Maybe everyone involved can do the same. I love Classic, you hate it...big fucking deal. How about we just quit being douchebags about it?

[melzas]

Pretty sure this thread won't change anyone's stance on classic vs retail debate, but thanks for trying. We haven't got enough of "these" threads in the last couple of days.

[Grogo]

Doesn't have to change anyone's stance, I am talking about why it is so enjoyable.

[Hitei]

Here is why Classic has been so great

There’s always tangible progression. Everything is a threat from 1-60, but you start to get more and more tools, your character grows. The amount of immersion in this game is insane. The feeling of being a fucking nobody trying to survive and get powerful. When you’re the zero wanting to be the hero everything is challenging. Being the hero means you know you’ll win.

Classic is harder, unforgiving and can be frustrating, but once you achieve your goal it feels great. That sense of accomplishment is addicting. Leveling takes time. Progress takes time. Means you put more time and get stuff from hard work. Leveling actually feels like a challenging experience instead of a boring rush to max level.

It's an mmo plus rpg again, a plus 1 stat means something, you notice the difference, you feel the difference. The classes have their own unique pros & cons, separating them from each other. Professions actually mean something now as gold is extremely hard to come by.

It has been an awesome experience so far, the world is bustling and active. The players have been great. I had high expectations and it has exceeded them.

There is a lot of stuff that is just incorrect here.

1-60 is not a threat, or challenging, or difficult, or hard, or unforgiving unless you are either terrible at the game or are going out of your way to increase the danger to yourself by fighting a bunch of stuff above your level. It isn't "hard work" for most of the classes leveling is 85-90% afking while you auto-attack. Nor does +1 stat actually do anything of significant value for you beyond like level 10, and even then for a lot of classes you are better off taking a shitty grey/white item with no stats and better damage than +1 stam.

Classic isn't about hard work at all, it's purely about time investment. Someone who is working hard is doing things wrong. The best way to level isn't hard work, it's knowing how to make what you are doing quicker and lower effort.

The flow of the game. The game from the ground up is designed to encourage players to group up and help each other. To share knowledge and resources and to help those who are behind to catch up.

This is just outright wrong. The game is very much designed to encourage you not to group. Grouping makes already abyssmal drop rates a fucking nightmare (have fun spending literal hours getting one quest done), cuts experience and just generally slows you down. What Vanilla/Classic encourages is sniping kills, stealing nodes, letting people die so that you can take the mob/resource they are trying to get that you also want, etc.

Do some people group, and buff each other, and help each other when they are being attacked? Absolutely. But it isn't because the game is designed to encourage it. It's because people go out of their way to be helpful with little benefit to themselves. The game is built around competition even within your own faction, all you have to do is look at shit like Scarab Lord, world buffs, and the upper end of the PvP ranking system to see Blizzard wasn't championing cooperation.

Legion and BfA are built from the ground up to encourage players to help each other. Because if you see someone fighting a pack, you can run in and also hit them and get credit without even needing to group or dragging both of your exp down. When you see a node you aren't racing to try and tap it before someone else because you can both loot it. When you are waiting for a quest mob, or rare, or world quest you aren't actively tapping tab and an instant cast attack to immediately tag it so that you get credit and not other people.

When I help people or share with people in Vanilla, it's because I happen to be feeling nice and decide not to be a dick and just out-tag them with moonfire. It's not because the game encourages me to, it literally penalizes me for doing so.
When I help people in retail it's because there's no reason not to and it's completely natural to jump in on someone doing something and fight alongside them to get things done faster without any penalty.

[Mrbleedinggums]

There is a lot of stuff that is just incorrect here.

1-60 is not a threat, or challenging, or difficult, or hard, or unforgiving unless you are either terrible at the game or are going out of your way to increase the danger to yourself by fighting a bunch of stuff above your level. It isn't "hard work" for most of the classes leveling is 85-90% afking while you auto-attack. Nor does +1 stat actually do anything of significant value for you beyond like level 10, and even then for a lot of classes you are better off taking a shitty grey/white item with no stats and better damage than +1 stam.

Classic isn't about hard work at all, it's purely about time investment. Someone who is working hard is doing things wrong. The best way to level isn't hard work, it's knowing how to make what you are doing quicker and lower effort.


This is just outright wrong. The game is very much designed to encourage you not to group. Grouping makes already abyssmal drop rates a fucking nightmare (have fun spending literal hours getting one quest done), cuts experience and just generally slows you down. What Vanilla/Classic encourage is sniping kills, stealing nodes, letting people die so that you can take the mob/resource they are trying to get that you also want, etc.

Do some people group, and buff each other, and help each other when they are being attacked? Absolutely. But it isn't because the game is designed to encourage it. It's because people go out of their way to be helpful with little benefit to themselves. The game is built around competition even within your own faction, all you have to do is look at shit like Scarab Lord, world buffs, and the upper end of the PvP ranking system to see Blizzard wasn't championing cooperation.

Legion and BfA are built from the ground up to encourage players to help each other. Because if you see someone fighting a pack, you can run in and also hit them and get credit without even needing to group or dragging both of your exp down. When you see a node you aren't racing to try and tap it before someone else because you can both loot it. When you are waiting for a quest mob, or rare, or world quest you aren't actively tapping tab and an instant cast attack to immediately tag it so that you get credit and not other people.

When I help people or share with people in Vanilla, it's because I happen to be feeling nice and decide not to be a dick and just out-tag them with moonfire. It's not because the game encourages me to, it literally penalizes me for doing so.
When I help people in retail it's because there's no reason not to and it's completely natural to jump in on someone doing something and fight alongside them to get things done faster without any penalty.

Careful, the amount of logic in here is too much for Classic elitists to handle. Better just cave and say how Classic is some god of a game and retail is complete and utter bullshit with nothing but faults. /s

+1 on the helping others; Fuck people in Classic. If I see someone getting killed, I let them because it does nothing to me to help them only to then die myself and if they survive they get all the kills/loot, not me. There is literally no benefit to helping others; I'm even hesitant to group up with friends because we happen to be skinners/herbalists and have to alternate nodes when there aren't many to begin with. I'd rather just have my blueberry distract while I get the items I need.

Retail? I'll stay in an area just to help others on my main because it helps them out and I can still benefit from it. People aren't pretentious assholes there, contrary to what Classic elitists love to claim when describing their Nirvana-ascended "community" aspect in Classic.

[Grogo]

No you are incorrect. It is harder, it does take more time, you die more. You mention time investment, well that is true and that is a plus, a big plus. Your opinion seems to be just about right...for you.

You say the he game is very much designed to encourage you not to group. Then explain all the grouping going on right now, there is a shit ton of it. Am I on the only server that is "grouping". Have you been even playing Classic like at all this week? I see a lot of people pairing up or tripling up. I see it alot. So yeah, you are dead wrong about that. 100% wrong. The game does encourage it, not my fault you can't see that. It encourages both and it is great.

It sounds to me that it's not the game that discourages you...it's your own attitude and how you are looking at it. You need to get something to help someone...that's
a shitty attitude, not everyone is selfish.

[Nnyco]

Unless you run into packs of mobs like an idiot theres really no threat or challenge, really.

[cface]

About helping others. When I help someone, it gives me nothing, I just help then cause I want too. And it makes me glad that those who like retail, play retail, while we stick to classic. Community is important, and glad that we finally got these two versions of the game.

[Grogo]

If I see someone getting killed, I let them because it does nothing to me to help them

That is why you should not play Classic. It is good to weed out the self-centered and selfish away from Classic. ME ME ME ME....give me a medal! Stick to Retail and do not let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

- - - Updated - - -

About helping others. When I help someone, it gives me nothing, I just help then cause I want too. And it makes me glad that those who like retail, play retail, while we stick to classic. Community is important, and glad that we finally got these two versions of the game.

I think we are drilling down into what makes a Retail player and a Classic player different in general perhaps (not all). Self-centered and selfish. Gimme gimme gimme.

[Mullet Man]

The game is very much designed to encourage you not to group.

Hmm... pretty sure I was "encouraged" to group for the Mercenaries quest, and Ol'Sooty quest in Loch Modan.
This group then extended into doing most of the remaining quests in the Zone.
I now have these people on my friends list.

In BfA, I can just role my face across the keyboard to complete any leveling content.
I don't need friends.

[Hitei]

No you are incorrect. It is harder, it does take more time, you die more. You mention time investment, well that is true and that is a plus, a big plus. Your opinion seems to be just about right...for you.

You die more if you are doing something wrong. AFKing while you autoattack/wand/dot/blizzard something down is not hard, unless I guess you count just staring at the screen not doing anything as difficult.

You say the he game is very much designed to encourage you not to group. Then explain all the grouping going on right now, there is a shit ton of it. Am I on the only server that is "grouping". Have you been even playing Classic like at all this week? I see a lot of people pairing up or tripling up. I see it alot. So yeah, you are dead wrong about that. 100% wrong. The game does encourage it, not my fault you can't see that. It encourages both and it is great.

This might be a nice argument if you had actually brought up even a single real piece of evidence.
"Smoking is bad for you."
"You say that smoking is bad for you? Then explain all the people smoking right now, there is a shit ton of it! I see a lot of people smoking! I see it a lot, so you are dead wrong."

Like I don't know if you have poor reading comprehension or just didn't bother to actually read, but here, I will quote it again for you:

When I help people or share with people in Vanilla, it's because I happen to be feeling nice and decide not to be a dick and just out-tag them with moonfire. It's not because the game encourages me to, it literally penalizes me for doing so.

People are grouping because they want to. They are feeling friendly and nice and want to work with others. Nothing about Classic or Vanilla back in the day, encourages that. It outright, objectively punishes you for doing so. You get reduced experience, you double the time it takes to complete most item gather or item pick up quests. You hamstring yourself for little benefit simply because you want to be friendly, the amount of content that encourages cooperation and grouping (read: the handful of group/elite quests in the game) is minuscule and if you can't just outright solo them, and aren't better off just ignoring them (frequently the case) your best best is grouping up for the 30 seconds it takes to do it and then going about your business.

Because the game discourages cooperation. People group up and help each other in spite of it not because of it.

[Mullet Man]

If I see someone getting killed, I let them because it does nothing to me to help them

That is why you should not play Classic. It is good to weed out the self-centered and selfish away from Classic. ME ME ME ME....give me a medal! Stick to Retail and do not let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

- - - Updated - - -



I think we are drilling down into what makes a Retail player and a Classic player different in general perhaps (not all). Self-centered and selfish. Gimme gimme gimme.

I think this is accurate, and have felt the same for a while.
There are specific political and philosophical differences between the players that enjoy BFA and Classic.
With BFA attracting the "its all about me" crowd.

[Raelbo]

Without taking away from what your experience thus far your conclusion is far too premature.

I get it. You believe it's your job to white knight for Classic in order to counter all the "we were wrong" threads. The problem you face though is that someone who tried Classic and found it to be a disappointment can legimately claim that, for them, Classic was a let down, the fact that you have enjoyed it for all of 4 days doesn't really prove the opposite.

Deeming Classic as a success is something that would only be credible in 6 months to a year from now. Deeming it a failure on the other hand might happen a lot sooner....

[Grogo]

The players that come here ( to Classic forums) who dislike the game but feel that overpowering need to make sure we all know why it is bad. It is a pattern, typically they are all the same. They have an agenda. Classic bothers them, in a weird unhealthy way. It's like they cannot help themselves to be negative about it. They will come out and try the game for a little bit, with a negative pissy attitude and then feel overjoyed to spew their feelings on how Classic is so bad. It's hilarius and I am embarrassed for them. It's like having a friend get drunk at a fancy cocktail party who ends up shitting on the carpet. Ugh.

[Mullet Man]

Without taking away from what your experience thus far your conclusion is far too premature.

I get it. You believe it's your job to white knight for Classic in order to counter all the "we were wrong" threads. The problem you face though is that someone who tried Classic and found it to be a disappointment can legimately claim that, for them, Classic was a let down, the fact that you have enjoyed it for all of 4 days doesn't really prove the opposite.

Deeming Classic as a success is something that would only be credible in 6 months to a year from now. Deeming it a failure on the other hand might happen a lot sooner....

Same can be said about those who believe it is their job to White Knight for Retail.
Retail has been a let down for Millions of players over the years, and Millions have quit.
Based on the millions and millions that have quit Retail over the years, we can deem it a failure now.

[Raelbo]

I think this is accurate, and have felt the same for a while.
There are specific political and philosophical differences between the players that enjoy of BFA and Classic.
With BFA attracting the "its all about me" crowd.

Lol.

If the Classic ambassadors around here are anything to go by, I expect Classic to be little more than a cesspit of toxicity. The truth, I suspect, is that you get toxic elements in both in similar measure because honestly, there is absolutely nothing about Classic, or BfA that particularly attracts players on the basis of their douchiness.

And before you tout anything about how altruistic and communal Classic players are, just look at how selfishly people have behaved regarding queues. Threads, for example, discussing how to make sure you don't get logged out while being afk for hours on end....

[Hitei]

After doing an elite quest I decided to actively lower my rewards and experience gained in order to play with people I'd met.

That's fine. It doesn't change the fact that the game isn't encouraging you to do so.

I think this is accurate, and have felt the same for a while.
There are specific political and philosophical differences between the players that enjoy BFA and Classic.
With BFA attracting the "its all about me" crowd.

You mean the same crowd who played Vanilla?

[Grogo]

You die more if you are doing something wrong.

What complete and utter bullshit. You pull extra mobs (easy to happen) and things get sketchy quickly. If you think Classic is as easy as Retail...just put down the glue.

When I help people or share with people in Vanilla, it's because I happen to be feeling nice and decide not to be a dick and just out-tag them with moonfire. It's not because the game encourages me to, it literally penalizes me for doing so.

You accuse of poor reading comprehension when you really need to go back and read my own answer. Jesus fucking Christ.

People are grouping because they want to. They are feeling friendly and nice and want to work with others.

Welcome to Classic.

[Poe]

@ people trying to say leveling in classic isn't harder than BFA LEVELING.

In BFA on my demon hunter with the vampiric speed azerite trait (which you can get one your very first peice of azerite at level 110). I leveled 110-120 pulling 10-20+ mobs at a time a mindlessly aoeing them all down. I also had no herilooms or Legion legendaries/ Legion raid gear.

Also I do not get a single talent point or new ability during the 110-120 leveling process.

The entire leveling process in BfA is mindnumbingly boring and unrewarding.

[Grogo]

Same can be said about those who believe it is their job to White Knight for Retail.
Retail has been a let down for Millions of players over the years, and Millions have quit.
Based on the millions and millions that have quit Retail over the years, we can deem it a failure now.

That is spot on, 100%