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  1. #201
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    Lol, where have you been living that you think sudden spikes in income are funneled into (R&)D?
    More money is more money.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  2. #202
    I am sure the next expansion will have serious design work done on classes and character progression and we already know there will be a level squish. But the only part that may be inspired by Classic may be niche abilities and utilities that weren't in a main rotation but were fun to have.

    And I completely disagree with the notion that classes should retain the same design through different expansions - that is the guaranteed way for boredom. We already saw it with Legion-BfA.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpcat View Post
    I am sure the next expansion will have serious design work done on classes and character progression and we already know there will be a level squish. But the only part that may be inspired by Classic may be niche abilities and utilities that weren't in a main rotation but were fun to have.

    And I completely disagree with the notion that classes should retain the same design through different expansions - that is the guaranteed way for boredom. We already saw it with Legion-BfA.
    I'd say it has more to do to the fact that classes feel less complete in BfA than in Legion, due to the removal of artifact weapons and legendaries (and the unability to swap items during a dungeon). I loved playing MM in Legion while the BfA version is quite lackluster in comparison, even if this class kept more or less the same design. Legion spoiled us with too powerful specs.

    I think it's important for classes and specs to have distinct identities.

  4. #204
    The only thing i want moved from classic to the modern game is the difficulty.I want harder hitting mobs which can kill me i open world.
    It begins with absence and desire.It begins with blood and fear.It begins with....

  5. #205
    I am Murloc!
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragnipur View Post
    The only thing i want moved from classic to the modern game is the difficulty.I want harder hitting mobs which can kill me i open world.
    That happened back in Suramar - and people complained that tanks could gather dozens of elites and kill them anyway.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    That happened back in Suramar - and people complained that tanks could gather dozens of elites and kill them anyway.
    I'd argue that it happened in Nazjatar too, especially with fresh 120 chars.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by rohoz View Post
    no flying is a common-sense argument, though.
    There's no point in having an expanded world with varied terrain if you fly over it in a week. Why waste man hours on terrain if people fly over it? Why have mobs in the world if you can hover over them and be completely safe? Danger is a part of open world games. Flying both invalidates terrain and danger.
    When the map is designed to be used with flying (or like Argus, a huge PITA, even with the teleporters), something like Pathfinder that delays flying, is fine.

  8. #208
    I am Murloc!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barzotti View Post
    I'd argue that it happened in Nazjatar too, especially with fresh 120 chars.
    Sure, bit I'm talking more about differences between the specs. If mobs are supposed to be "hard hitting" to a point where tanks are actually threatened, other specs would be getting absolutely annihilated ... or tanks would require a massive nerf to their damage to compensate, so they don't just burn cooldowns and kill 20+ anyway. That, and general nerfing of various self healing mechanics, so the damage actually sticks to the character instead of getting it all back the moment an enemy dies.

    It would be a balancing nightmare. Maybe they could do it if mobs got a ton of armor piercing/mortal strike effects. Maybe they could buff one another, Bolstering style. Either way, it would be a lot of work.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    Sure, bit I'm talking more about differences between the specs. If mobs are supposed to be "hard hitting" to a point where tanks are actually threatened, other specs would be getting absolutely annihilated ... or tanks would require a massive nerf to their damage to compensate, so they don't just burn cooldowns and kill 20+ anyway. That, and general nerfing of various self healing mechanics, so the damage actually sticks to the character instead of getting it all back the moment an enemy dies.

    It would be a balancing nightmare. Maybe they could do it if mobs got a ton of armor piercing/mortal strike effects. Maybe they could buff one another, Bolstering style. Either way, it would be a lot of work.
    Indeed, I agree with you. However some Nagas in Nazjatar have a mortal strike effect that reduces healing by 75%, some crabs apply a stackable debuff that lowers armor. But giving those abilities to the majority of the mobs would be atrocious to deal with for some classes.
    Last edited by Barzotti; 2019-08-31 at 11:04 AM.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    "- Combat. Not only do you need to press about 18 spells just to kill a mob while leveling in BFA, but the damn things scale with you, so you never feel more powerful. In fact, you feel LESS powerful the higher level you go."
    I don't think that measuring the number of abilities it takes to kill something is a good metric.

    The thing about combat in retail is that you have a lot of abilities that are "deals damage". Maybe you have a damage dealer that builds a "combo point", since that's how every class functions now. Maybe you have a damage dealer that has two charges with a longer cooldown than your other damage dealer than has one charge with a shorter cooldown. Maybe you also have a damage dealer than hits more than one enemy. Maybe you have a damage dealer that costs combo points that does a little more damage. Maybe you have a damage dealer that does damage at a little longer range. Maybe I have an ability that literally casts one of my existing abilities but as a separate ability and maybe some twist like it affects more than one target. In other words, they all basically do the same shit, it's just some slight variables between them that make you have to press them in some priority.

    Whereas in classic, maybe I have an ability that deals damage that requires I have another ability active, but there's a few abilities that lets it be active that have different effects themselves, but also change the effect of the said damaging ability. So you might count that as a single damage ability, but that single ability is actually interesting and has a lot of dynamics to it.

    Retail is a lot more about pressing things in an order that maximizes DPS based on variables like how many enemies are around you.
    Last edited by HitRefresh; 2019-08-31 at 11:48 AM.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by dragnipur View Post
    The only thing i want moved from classic to the modern game is the difficulty.I want harder hitting mobs which can kill me i open world.
    They did this in Legion on the first day of ToS with ilvl-scaling mobs. The rage was so high they got rid of it the same day.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwielder View Post
    They did this in Legion on the first day of ToS with ilvl-scaling mobs. The rage was so high they got rid of it the same day.
    Maybe they should stop making decisions based on loud people and actually do what will improve the gameplay.

    I thought their core value was "Gameplay First" not "Appease Internet Outrage First".

    This is why we have shitty horse animations still.

  13. #213
    Honestly I think the biggest thing they could do is change the way gear works and is gained. Part of what makes Classic feel better than retail is that each gear upgrade actually feels like an upgrade. Even grey items can be upgrades in the early levels and each new piece of gear really does make your character feel stronger. That's something I've missed from retail for a long time. Sure upgrades still make you stronger, but in such small increments and so often, you don't really notice.

    This is something that has been suggested and discussed multiple times over the last few years. Gear in retail is far too common. Epics are no longer epic, they're as common as green items in Classic. Getting an epic doesn't feel good anymore, it's just another piece of loot. But as has been pointed out every time this is discussed, most players now are accustomed to that and removing it would upset a huge chunk of the player base. I'm hoping if enough people play Classic, they may be converted to preferring the rewarding gear system Classic has. I'm not saying gear should be hard to get, but it should be meaningful.

    So that'd be what I hope they learn most from Classic. Gear should be meaningful again.

  14. #214
    I am Murloc!
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    Quote Originally Posted by HitRefresh View Post
    Whereas in classic, maybe I have an ability that deals damage that requires I have another ability active, but there's a few abilities that lets it be active that have different effects themselves, but also change the effect of the said damaging ability. So you might count that as a single damage ability, but that single ability is actually interesting and has a lot of dynamics to it.
    ... What? Where are these supposedly complex abilities in Classic? Even back in Vanilla days, Guild Wars was the game known for its multi part abilities, which nearly always read "does X normally, Y to enemies affected by Z"... and ones that were far more complicated than that. It was the game with bizarre synergies and skills where "the whole was more than sum of its' parts".

    It wasn't until TBC when Blizzard started making abilities with multiple effects, with Unstable Affliction being the prime example of two completely different effects on a single spell. Classic had nothing of the sorts.
    Last edited by KaPe; 2019-08-31 at 12:14 PM.

  15. #215
    I really think they should look back at older expansions as well in order to improve.


    “Why did MoP have a good class design? Can we do this again but improve some new stuff?”

    For example. Obviously shouldn’t make a expansion that’s too close to vanilla play style.

    What I want is to remove forged items and better class design.

  16. #216
    Legendary! Lord Pebbleton's Avatar
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    No. Retail is gonna stay retail, and it's a very different game from classic. They tried to make current wow similar to classic in the past and it always sucked.

    I am interested, however, in knowing the future of classic itself. If it will be a big hit in the future, like it is now, I wouldn't rule out an attempt on their part to expand on the project.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Alempa View Post
    I really think they should look back at older expansions as well in order to improve.


    “Why did MoP have a good class design? Can we do this again but improve some new stuff?”

    For example. Obviously shouldn’t make a expansion that’s too close to vanilla play style.

    What I want is to remove forged items and better class design.
    i think we will get better class design, but titanforging isnt going anywhere. i wish they would at least tune it a bit more tightly, but it does exactly what its supposed to do.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Hahaha you did it again. You made those silly little images I stead of just linking the comment I replied to.
    Images are better

    Just admit it, you were wrong, move on. It's really not a big deal.
    I wasn't wrong, you were saying what you were replying to originally and I'm talking about what you said to the other guy. I don't care what you were originally talking about I'm replying to what exactly you said

    Let me help you out. "- Combat. Not only do you need to press about 18 spells just to kill a mob while leveling in BFA, but the damn things scale with you, so you never feel more powerful. In fact, you feel LESS powerful the higher level you go."
    Yep this like I said

    This statement was made by you. And that is the statement I am responding to but I see where the confusion is I only went back to the comment that made you reply to Rohoz, I didn't go all the way back to the beginning because I'm responding to the "while leveling" comment you made and your opinion on killing mobs easily in BFA

    This was what was being discussed
    That's what you were discussing with him not what I was discussing with you


    , before you jumped in half way through the conversation
    Yeah and that's when it starts for me, if you want to continue to talk like I'm speaking about what you were originally speaking about that's on you, nothing confusing about it though


    with half the information, and made a total mess of everything.
    I have all the information though, what you said, I'm not talking about the other person.



    So like I said, if you want to make comments specifically about the leveling experience you have to say it every time otherwise people won't know
    Last edited by Drusin; 2019-08-31 at 12:33 PM.
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  19. #219
    Retail will remain trash, it's beyond saving. The only downside of classic is the shared sub with retail. Don't even have that crap installed, but still i'm forced to pay for it.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Acidz View Post
    Retail will remain trash, it's beyond saving. The only downside of classic is the shared sub with retail. Don't even have that crap installed, but still i'm forced to pay for it.
    Your opinion has been noted, categorized and summarily ignored.

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