Classic WoW Ragnaros World First 1st week

[d00mh4cker]

BfA was time gated from the start.
https://www.wowhead.com/news=286035/...lease-calendar

Azshara took 359 pulls.

Rag took 1.


So Bfa is 359x more difficult then the LFR that is classic? I agree.

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ghuun was down after 7 days

Yes, i think talking in amount of pulls is more accurate.

[Frozenbro]

ghuun was down after 7 days

7 days of being on max lvl + gearing + attempts, Rag and Ony died without all this, basically in hours, the meme lvl of this is laughable.

[Mullet Man]

Azshara took 359 pulls.

Rag took 1.


So Bfa is 359x more difficult then the LFR that is classic? I agree.

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Yes, i think talking in amount of pulls is more accurate.

Umm... MC is 15 years old...

Ion Hazzikostas and problems with C'Thun back in the day:
https://www.pcgamer.com/the-story-of...rs-to-madness/

[rrayy]

Seriously though, that might be the most accurate comment I've read in a while...

So, a blatant troll is accurate?

[Mullet Man]

7 days of being on max lvl + gearing + attempts, Rag and Ony died without all this, basically in hours, the meme lvl of this is laughable.

The Meme level of what? That a highly motivated team of Vanilla Private Server Pros easily downed 15 year old content they have done hundreds of times?

You Retail fanbois sure are reaching...

[Frozenbro]

You Retail fanbois sure are reaching...

No, that they did it with quest gear and plenty of non 60s, if you cant grasp how pathetic this is, then idk if you are using your braincells, cause this havent happened in retail and never will cause *gasp* retail raids > classic raids, shocking truth i know.

[Mullet Man]

No, that they did it with quest gear and plenty of non 60s, if you cant grasp how pathetic this is, then idk if you are using your braincells, cause this havent happened in retail and never will cause *gasp* retail raids > classic raids, shocking truth i know.

Umm... MC was tuned for people entering with greens and blues.
Mythic Uldir was cleared in 8 days. How pathetic.

[Frozenbro]

Umm... MC was tuned for people entering with greens and blues.
Mythic Uldir was cleared in 8 days. How pathetic.

yep, in 8 days of gearing + split raids, while Rag and Ony were cleared in just hours if you dont count lvling from 1 to 58-60 and 1-2 pulls (?), so yeah, pretty meme if you ask me, you are clearly not using your braincells if you really think classic raids are remotely comparable to retail mythic, its just borderline stupidity.

[Cazz17]

"Classic is so hard, all you retail noobs don't know what a hard game is. Fire resistance is so hard to get" hahahahhahaha

[Mullet Man]

yep, in 8 days of gearing + split raids, while Rag and Ony were cleared in just hours if you dont count lvling from 1 to 58-60 and 1-2 pulls (?), so yeah, pretty meme if you ask me, you are clearly not using your braincells if you really think classic raids are remotely comparable to retail mythic, its just borderline stupidity.

Never said that Classic Raids are comparable to Mythic Raids in Retail.
I'm pointing out the parallel that the best and most prepared Guilds in the world can quickly clear content, for both Retail and Classic.
That 99% of the others cannot duplicate this feat.

MC was the first Raid of a new Game. I believe it was developed in a week by one or two developers.
Of course it is easy by modern terms.

Doesn't take away the fact that some Classic Guilds will struggle with it.

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"Classic is so hard, all you retail noobs don't know what a hard game is. Fire resistance is so hard to get" hahahahhahaha

This was a hard Vanilla Raid by any measure. Actually impossible at the time.
http://www.pcgamer.com/the-story-of-...rs-to-madness/

[Barzotti]

Never said that Classic Raids are comparable to Mythic Raids in Retail.
I'm pointing out the parallel that the best and most prepared Guilds in the world can quickly clear content, for both Retail and Classic.
That 99% of the others cannot duplicate this feat.

Method clears content "quickly" because they spend an obscene amount of time preparing (according to Xerwo, 16-18h a day during one month before the Eternal Palace progress). They can clear Mythic in one-two weeks because all the preparation beforehand (which represents 90% of the work for getting world first according to their raid lead). The raid progress in itself in only the tip of the iceberg.

[arkanon]

The Meme level of what? That a highly motivated team of Vanilla Private Server Pros easily downed 15 year old content they have done hundreds of times?

You Retail fanbois sure are reaching...

Ok let me help you out a little, and remove the reaching. Please link (you love links) the mythic raid that was cleared 3 hours after it was released, by a bunch of characters that were not even max level. Ill wait while you search for it.

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Never said that Classic Raids are comparable to Mythic Raids in Retail.
I'm pointing out the parallel that the best and most prepared Guilds in the world can quickly clear content, for both Retail and Classic.
That 99% of the others cannot duplicate this feat.

See above - i await your response

[Mullet Man]

Method clears content "quickly" because they spend an obscene amount of time preparing (according to Xerwo, 16-18h a day during one month before the Eternal Palace progress). They can clear Mythic in one-two weeks because all the preparation beforehand (which represents 90% of the work for getting world first according to their raid lead).

Same with APES. They spent years on Private Vanilla Servers.
They also spent months preparing for the release of Classic, and how to get the First clear of MC and Ony.
They are the 1% of Classic. Just like Method is the 1% of Retail.

Also, I found this about MC:
"Molten Core nearly failed to make the final cut in World of Warcraft. According to the post, developers finished the dungeon in a single week, with Jeff Kaplan handling spawning and creature placement, Scott Mercer designing the bosses, Bob Fitch designing the loot, and Pat Nagle creating the Hydraxis questline."

Anyone purporting that MC was a hardcore raid, doesn't understand Classic or Retail.
It was "hard" back in the day because it was a new thing, and herding 40 casual players is difficult.

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Ok let me help you out a little, and remove the reaching. Please link (you love links) the mythic raid that was cleared 3 hours after it was released, by a bunch of characters that were not even max level. Ill wait while you search for it.

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See above - i await your response

3 hours after release? MC was up for 4/5 days.
Why are you moving the goal posts?

No one expected MC to stay up long after players started reaching level 58+.
Most streamers expect to have Rag down by week 2.

Stop looking for validation for your insecurities.

[arkanon]

3 hours after release? MC was up for 4/5 days.
Why are you moving the goal posts?

No one expected MC to stay up long after players started reaching level 58+.
Most streamers expect to have Rag down by week 2.

Stop looking for validation for your insecurities.

Man, those mental gymnastics. Astounding. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Why are you bundling leveling in with raid content? what an entirely disengenuous thing to do.

Let me ask you the same question, worded slightly different, and watch you desperately squirm around trying to avoid the obvious: From the time the first players stepped foot into Mc to the time the final boss was dead, was roughly 3 hours. Using the same calculation (from first team entering through to final boss kill), please name a Mythic raid that has fallen so quickly, and an estimate of the number of players who were below the max level.

[Mullet Man]

Man, those mental gymnastics. Astounding. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Why are you bundling leveling in with raid content? what an entirely disengenuous thing to do.

Let me ask you the same question, worded slightly different, and watch you desperately squirm around trying to avoid the obvious: From the time the first players stepped foot into Mc to the time the final boss was dead, was roughly 3 hours. Using the same calculation (from first team entering through to final boss kill), please name a Mythic raid that has fallen so quickly, and an estimate of the number of players who were below the max level.

Give me a "new" mythic raid that has been available for 15 years to test with.
How dense are you?

As stated previously...
No one expected MC to stay up long after players started reaching level 58+.
Most streamers expect to have Rag down by week 2.

MC was only "hard" because it was a new concept to players, and herding 40 casuals is difficult.

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And to address this part specifically:

Man, those mental gymnastics. Astounding. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Why are you bundling leveling in with raid content? what an entirely disengenuous thing to do.

You are implying you can start Classic with a new character and have MC cleared in 4/5 days.
This is completely inaccurate.
It is going to take the average player a month or two, at best, to even reach level 58/60.
Only the elite 1% will be able to achieve something like this.
Same with BfA Mythic raids. Only the elite 1% can clear them in the first week.
And under 10% even attempt to clear them at all according to Google searches (couldn't find an official number).

When BWL, AQ40, and NAXX are released, they will also be cleared very quickly by the elite 1%.
Normal guilds are going to struggle a little with BWL and more with AQ40 and NAXX.
How much they struggle is still yet to be seen, but it won't be anything like Mythic Raiding.
But it won't be as bad as back in 2004/2006.

[TJ]

Man, those mental gymnastics. Astounding. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Why are you bundling leveling in with raid content? what an entirely disengenuous thing to do.

Let me ask you the same question, worded slightly different, and watch you desperately squirm around trying to avoid the obvious: From the time the first players stepped foot into Mc to the time the final boss was dead, was roughly 3 hours. Using the same calculation (from first team entering through to final boss kill), please name a Mythic raid that has fallen so quickly, and an estimate of the number of players who were below the max level.

I understand your point, but you've got to remember that MC was the first raid ever created for WoW and wasn't meant to be as hard as Mythic raids are when they are released today. The guild APES also said they've been playing on private servers for something like 13 years, they've likely been preparing since Classic was announced for this feat. I mean, they could do every little detail on the way to achieving level 60 and a Rag kill on private servers, so it's no surprise that when the game actually came out that they steamrolled everything. I know they do PTR testing on retail, but it's not the full raid and all mechanics etc etc. I don't think the bosses would be up for long at all if Method could basically reciprocate their world first kills beforehand on the PTR and practise it to perfect every little detail.

I understand your argument, but I get Mullet Man's points too.

[Fahrenheit]

Where all those clowns at that said it’d take a month or two to get 40 people max level and with enough fire resist to pull this off.

[Alpharius]

7 days of being on max lvl + gearing + attempts, Rag and Ony died without all this, basically in hours, the meme lvl of this is laughable.

original ragnaros stayed alive for 154, so what's your point? The game is figured out and yes the raid isn't hard.

That being said the bosses stood alive for longer than modern mythic raids. 77 days for nefarian

113 days for c'thun

90 days for Kel'thuzad


btw I used to raid progress back in cata and during dragon soul. Remember spine of deathwing? That boss required you to have a lot of burst damage classes. Otherwise you had to play it perfectly even in full heroic gear. I have roughly 13 clears on every boss, but spine where I have zero nowadays. I have one clear on madness. Spine of deathwing in my opinion was one of the hardest raid encounters in this game mostly because, if you didn't have the proper classes you were fucked. Do you think that's great design? Being forced to reroll and regear your raid for one boss?

[Frozenbro]

original ragnaros stayed alive for 154, so what's your point? The game is figured out and yes the raid isn't hard.

That being said the bosses stood alive for longer than modern mythic raids. 77 days for nefarian

113 days for c'thun

90 days for Kel'thuzad

What is your point tho, do you actually believe classic raiding is on par with Retail mythic? classic raiding is a joke m8, it is already proved and will continue to be with upcoming content, like, if you truly believe Mythic KJ is on par with Ragnarok OP SO HARD knockback, then you have issues beyond any help.

[arkanon]

I understand your point, but you've got to remember that MC was the first raid ever created for WoW and wasn't meant to be as hard as Mythic raids are when they are released today. The guild APES also said they've been playing on private servers for something like 13 years, they've likely been preparing since Classic was announced for this feat. I mean, they could do every little detail on the way to achieving level 60 and a Rag kill on private servers, so it's no surprise that when the game actually came out that they steamrolled everything. I know they do PTR testing on retail, but it's not the full raid and all mechanics etc etc. I don't think the bosses would be up for long at all if Method could basically reciprocate their world first kills beforehand on the PTR and practise it to perfect every little detail.

I understand your argument, but I get Mullet Man's points too.

I absolutely 100% agree that it never was, and was never meant to be hard! many of us have been saying that for a very long time. In no way am i saying vanilla raiding is "inferior" to retail in any way other than difficulty. Im not even saying the lower difficulty is a bad thing, simply a fact. But the way some ppl desperately try to avoid acknowledging that current mythic raiding is exponentially more difficult in every measurable way - its just a fact - there is no argueing it, so ppl like Mr mullet just awkwardly fumble around trying to change the measure, changing the rules, and refusing to acknowledge the outright fact that vanilla raiding was, by design, extremely easy. So easy that you dont even need to be max level to down it.

And the boss fights are tested in full, in particular by guilds like method, who have direct communication channels with Blizzard to discuss concerns with fights (something top guilds have refused to acknowledge in the past, but i think its common knowledge now). There have been times they have held a certain phase or iirc one mythic only boss was kept off ptr, otherwise they are all tested at length.

But the second part that is completely ignored is that the only planning done here was for leveling - there was nothing to plan for the actual raids - you turn up, press your 1-2 buttons, and stay alive as best you can, avoiding the 1-2 mechanics. Last comment i read from Apes said they used next to no consumables, many players used none at all, they just planned their route to 60. If people want to discuss the differences in the leveling experience, thats totally fine - but that has nothing to do with the time it takes from when the first raid team steps foot into the raid, to when the final boss goes down, on the hardest difficulty