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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by durenas View Post
    I am against LFR because it is currently unnecessary(you can get better gear from prismatic manapearls), and it is filled with toxic or lazy people.
    The teamwork skills acquired for a raid setting are not unnecessary and it's only the way you present it when you use the worst offenders to paint the rest with. It's a common excuse to relieve fine individuals such as yourself from any and all responsibility in teaching newbs and strangers a thing or two about raiding or how to play their class/role. It's also how shit-spirals start and maintain themselves.
    If you knew the candle was fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Phryx View Post
    Because it gives you a false sense of accomplishment, that will lower your ambitions to actually do the content in the appropriate way: heroic/mythic with a group of friends.
    Most players aren't interested in having video game ambitions to begin with. They just want to hop into a game at a time of their choosing and have some fun (kill some bosses, get some loot) and then move on with their lives. Perhaps you feel like heroic/mythic is the "appropriate" way to do content, but I could just as easily call your sense of accomplishment false as well. It's a video game, it's not that hard.

    Overall, LFR is good for the game because it gives casuals (aka most players) a means of seeing this content.

    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    LFR only players didn't raid HC/Mythic before LFR either. So i'm not really seeing your point.
    I suppose I'm the exception to the rule, then. I spent an unhealthy amount of time playing WoW from vanilla though Wrath, much of it doing cutting edge raiding. After most of my IRL friends left during WotLK, I spent most of my time just doing PUGs or joining a random guild every other xpack to do normal/heroic raiding. By the time Legion came out I shifted to being LFR only.

    Nowadays I'm simply not interested in committing my time to a game like this. I might still log in and play for 6 hours one evening, but it won't be because I made a commitment to a bunch of people I don't really know. Just because I was willing to do it 8-14 years ago doesn't mean I'm willing to do it now.

  3. #83
    Pandaren Monk ThatsOurEric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    They want to be a special snowflake afking in stormwind while showin off their "hard" earned raidgear.
    Pretty much this, yeah.

    It's really fucking pathetic really.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    Humm, not exactly true for every single encounter. But for sure it is the case for many fights!
    but it IS true! EVERY boss in Classic right now is EASIER then any LFR Boss on Retail cause they have waaaaay less mechanics.


    Quote Originally Posted by korijenkins View Post
    I'm against LFR because it trivializes difficult content
    Could you please explain how LFR trivializes MYTHIC Raids??? right, beause it doesnt. All LFR does is giving everyone and his mom to see the content the developers created and not just the 0.1% of raiders.

  5. #85
    LFR is bad for the health of the raiding community because it disincentivizes people who may otherwise push themselves to get to the point of doing raiding to take the easy way out and just say "Eh, I can do LFR and see the raid now. Fuck it". If there's no reason to have to TRY in order to see content, many people just simply wont, which then results in many people just not caring to raid at all past LFR. Someone who, in days of old, may have wanted to see Ulduar. They would have to push themselves to get better at the game, learn their class and be productive in the raid. Someone in that scenario now can just queue for LFR, run around not having a single fucking clue what they're doing or what the boss encounter consists of, and then call it a day. It perpetuates bad to continue being bad.

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  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Loeko View Post
    I don't like LFR because it is a symbol of a disease that has been growing in WoW for years. It started with the dailies and normal/hero modes in BC, spread like the plague and now entirely contaminated the game with M+, Island expeditions, WQ and so on. That disease is: repetitive content, an absolute immersion killer. Imagine your D&D GM telling you "Good job guys, you did a great job in this dungeon. Let's start our next adventure! Same dungeon in a different difficulty". You can't, right? Well, Blizzard decided to do that, and not just a bit, they did it for every single piece of end game content there is in the game, to the point where unique content is rarely developed anymore. It probably started without any bad intention from Blizzard but it quickly grew out of control and here we are. A game with over 90% of its content being anti-immersive, anti-progression, anti RPG, and of all those repetitive things, LFR is probably the dumbest one with zero challenge, zero communication, zero investment, zero learning, but hey, you get to see the story and repeat it in normal after that. Then in heroic, then in Mythic. Yay
    So you complain about dungeons having different difficulties because it's expedition, but never mention raids reset every week. Makes perfect sense. Funnily enough the higher diffilcuty levels are far from repeiptitonas the new mechanics can make encounter completely different and make it feel like a different boss.

  7. #87
    Pit Lord Beet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmamass View Post

    if you look back at vanilla and see how damn small the number of people was that steped ever into naxx you know that it is NOT bullshit...
    its about content being designed and not only be seen by 0.1% of the playerbase but by everyone and his mom.
    Doesn't matter. You can see Naxx right now on retail solo. You aren't missing anything by not seeing the one boss that's different in the WotLK version. And if your argument is about wanting to see the fight how it was, well LFR kills that because then the fight isn't how it was so you can't use that logic. You can get on retail and see all of this shit as I said, so no need for LFR.

  8. #88
    People hate LFR because it let's people who don't no life the game experience content. Hardcore raiders want to feel superior to other people so they push down anyone that is a "casual". Also, LFR lets people raid without needing to sit around and look for groups and that impacts hardcore raiders getting more gold from selling runs. There are those that say it causes people to "continue to be bad players" but you can easily look at a person's achievements and just not take them to your raid group if you're that high and mighty. Raiders need everyone to either play the way THEY play or they need LFR to go away so they can make gold from selling runs. LFR literally doesn't impact the raid community AT ALL other than impacting hardcore raiders' egos and/or their gold wallets.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Butter Emails View Post
    Molten Core could be a LFR raid. It's about as easy as LFR.
    The funny part is that it was as a scaled raid for the 10th anniversary. And guess what? Is was amazing to see all naysayers wiping there.

    Not saying it's hard, but it was not free run loot for LFR heroes.

  10. #90
    Well having a raid difficulty that's that simple reduces the need to join a guild to see the raid content.

    It's why they absolutely need to keep adding questlines and the like that require the mythic versions of dungeons, or the normal+ modes of raids. Without some other incentive than seeing the raid's bosses...why raid the higher difficulties?

    It's why the Mage Tower was such a great idea. I wasn't able to beat that until I had raided heroic antorus for months. It was the end-all goal of the expansion for me that I geared up to do.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Gratlim View Post
    The funny part is that it was as a scaled raid for the 10th anniversary. And guess what? Is was amazing to see all naysayers wiping there.

    Not saying it's hard, but it was not free run loot for LFR heroes.
    I don't know what groups you had but I didn't have a single wipe when I ran the MC 10th anniversary. And I ran it a lot to try and get the pet.

  12. #92
    Because for some reason a few people think that if a LFR player gets one high Titanforged item, lets say 430 that automatically means they are fully decked in 430+ gear. Which is obviously not true for 99.999999% of all LFR players, and that's me being generous.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by -aiko- View Post
    As the poster said, it enables truly lazy behavior in players. If a player experiences raiding through LFR, and decide they want to take the next step into finding a guild and doing normal/heroic, they bring this behavior with them. These are the people guilds have to deal with when they are trying to recruit.
    This is a pretty hypocritical/elitist response given your first post in this thread. In one post you say LFR is bad because it doesn't challenge players to improve themselves, and in the next you suggest that guilds shouldn't need to deal with helping players improve when those players want to move up in the raiding world.

    So should people who want to do normal/heroic raiding just know exactly what to do right off the bat? If you want to tout the social aspect of learning how to work together as a team, then maybe you should extend that to normal/heroic guilds helping the LFR players who want to raid harder content but might be lacking in experience or maybe picked up some bad habits along the way.

    As for the ones who simply want to stick to LFR, what's the problem there?

  14. #94
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    Having moved half the owrld away but still playing on french server, I want to keep LFR because that is the only way I can """""raid"""" as the 6-7h time difference prevents me to play with the few friends that I have left.

    I don't see where is the pleasure in classic to spend 4h to build a group when you can have one in 30 minutes....

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    They want to be a special snowflake afking in stormwind while showin off their "hard" earned raidgear.
    And poor johnny in Retail also wants to be a special snowflake who has equal opportunity to transmog every piece of gear that everyone else has. The difference between pre and post LFR snowflakes is that that pre-LFR snowflakes had to do the content, often repeatedly, before they could AFK in Stormwind. Post-LFR snowflakes get to AFK while doing the actual content that rewards their "effort" by showering them in gear.

  16. #96
    Elitists hated it because it allowed non elitists to complete the raid (Personally, I consider completing LFR to not even be completing the raid)
    Everyone else hates it because it apparently killed the sense of community.

    LFR was a good thing, and it should stay, its a guided tour through the shit they would otherwise not get to do. I think current day there is a massive issue with it though, and that comes down to titanforging. There should be an easy mode, so that everyone can see the content, but it shouldn't be possible to get Mythic level loot, no matter how rare.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sensa1 View Post
    And poor johnny in Retail also wants to be a special snowflake who has equal opportunity to transmog every piece of gear that everyone else has. The difference between pre and post LFR snowflakes is that that pre-LFR snowflakes had to do the content, often repeatedly, before they could AFK in Stormwind. Post-LFR snowflakes get to AFK while doing the actual content that rewards their "effort" by showering them in gear.
    I'd agree, were it not for LFR loot being re-colored. It's pretty blatant when somone is trying to show of LFR gear, because it's a differnt color to the actual raid gear.
    Last edited by thunterman; 2019-09-02 at 05:38 AM.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by tmamass View Post
    but it IS true! EVERY boss in Classic right now is EASIER then any LFR Boss on Retail cause they have waaaaay less mechanics.


    Could you please explain how LFR trivializes MYTHIC Raids??? right, beause it doesnt. All LFR does is giving everyone and his mom to see the content the developers created and not just the 0.1% of raiders.
    It wasnt 0.1% It was 1% of guild clearing 100% of content. But there was plenty of guilds clearing other raids. And this kinfa funny. I am casual. I propably wont have time to raid but yet i hate lfr and i love classic. Why? Becouse i am not entilted. I dont want game content to be handled to me. It is boring. People what feel entilted towards raid content are minority.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Irian
    Nobody in LFR actually enjoys LFR,
    I run LFR, i enjoy it. This is coming from someone who used to raid pretty hardcore up till the end of Cataclysm.

    Quote Originally Posted by -aiko-
    Nobody wants LFR to be difficult, we just want it to actually represent what raiding is about. Current LFR is like teaching kids to play basketball by giving them a ball and telling them to keep throwing it until it finally goes into the basket and they all win. Surprise, that's not how it works. We teach them the fundamentals and have them play with other kids. We teach them teamwork and friendly competition. We teach them it's okay to lose.
    They had a great opportunity with the Proving grounds to help teach players and get them ready to perform at a level needed to be successful at normal raiding. I wish they would have done more with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue
    It's why they absolutely need to keep adding questlines and the like that require the mythic versions of dungeons, or the normal+ modes of raids. Without some other incentive than seeing the raid's bosses...why raid the higher difficulties?
    IMO, people should participate in organized raiding because it's an activity they enjoy, not because they were forced to or because the rewards are so insanely lucrative they dwarf everything else. I like how Mythic+ became an alternate progression system, and i like some of the ideas Blizzard has deployed this expansion (Warfronts, Naz Pearls). The tuning for risk/reward may need work, but i like the concepts they are willing to entertain.

    Just my 2 cents.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by gd8 View Post
    So what exactly is the problem with allowing "casuals" to see this content when they're not even being rewarded for it?
    Seeing the content is the reward. And of everyone and their grandma sees it then it doesnt feel very cool to have seen it.

    Its a little bit like climbing Mount Everest, to stand on top of it and look out on the world. That wouldn't feel so epic if there was an elevator built on the other side, so after your climb youd stand next to some fat tourist who just came for the view and a selfie then went back into the elevator.

    Think what you will of it but exclusivity goes hand in hand with sence of accomplishment. To set foot where noone has before and all that...

    Then theres the "first impression" part. If a boss are hard they give a completly diffrent impression of the raid as a whole. Íf you slowly have to work your way throu the raid and fight hard for it. Seeing that content feels amazing. But if all is there to be seen without any effort whatsoever, its about as epic as doing a bunch of world Qs.
    None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Sensa1 View Post
    And poor johnny in Retail also wants to be a special snowflake who has equal opportunity to transmog every piece of gear that everyone else has. The difference between pre and post LFR snowflakes is that that pre-LFR snowflakes had to do the content, often repeatedly, before they could AFK in Stormwind. Post-LFR snowflakes get to AFK while doing the actual content that rewards their "effort" by showering them in gear.
    the, totally not a strawman, you have found in retail is good proof of your point

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