People who understand how the game works knew it was possible.
People who didn't understand how the game works did not think it was possible.
This is how life works.
People who understand how the game works knew it was possible.
People who didn't understand how the game works did not think it was possible.
This is how life works.
well. the 10man dungeonfarm made the leveling faster than expected but even without that a rag kill first week woudlve been more than possible. Only it likely would have occured a day later.
None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.
it doesnt mean nothing. being in the 40s after 3 days on patch 1.1 would be insanely fast. remember on launch it took most people ~3 months to level
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they also exploited the raid xp bug and layering like crazy to field a raid that fast.
And there you are wrong. I am not defending classic raiding. MC was piss easy and BWL wasn't hard either. AQ was the first raid that required some skill.
But just because it was like that and the game was different back then doesn't make the players that played back then worse. that they required more time had different reasons.
I find it ok that people call Classic raiding easy. Vanilla raiding MC and BWL was easy and Classic is even easier. but people thinking like "Oh, I am a better player because I play retail" is something I hate. People that think they are better because they play a different game at a different time when in reality the overall player base isn't better skill wise, we just know more.
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the largest part of "growth" players went through in TBC was the theory crafting and having sites to read everything you needed to know. It was not that players actually improved as players, but that the intel that lacked before was easily accessable and getting the right gear was just a matter of will and time. This improved players but not their own skill.
It is a bit like the earth being flat or round. Back when there was no method for most people to figure it out calling the earth flat was not stupid and the guys weren't less skilled than we are now. We just have more knowledge and tools to worth with right now and if you call the earth flat now you would be actually stupid.
Access to knowledge and tools changes a lot but this doesn't mean humanity (or in this case the playerbase) became better in terms of their own skill, they improved because knowledge was gathered and became more accessable and tools improved (mods became a ton better).
The older players (not all but the good ones) still had that potential before TBC was released, there weren't just as many and as comfortable ways for them to reach it.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, cause if you watch some world first from vanilla and classic, they were fucking awful, but still i can't really tell if those same terrible players would actually adapt to retail difficulty, some probably will, some probably wont, would be a nice experiment so we are able to draw the line.
And what does that proof? It is one player that maybe was gone for a long time. Or he was one of the bad one that got carried by the better ones. Maybe he was good back then but couldn't adept. Many reasons why he was horrible and none has to do with players in vanilla being worse.
It proves you can be a bad player but be in a top guild, still true today. I remember the first time I wanted to play hardcore for a bit, so I joined a top guild in TBC, I was shocked at how many bad players there were causing stupid wipes on progress. I returned to my vanilla guild after a bit because they were more fun, raided less and did clear the content, just slower.
I did the exact same in WotLK as well lol, oh and MoP.
If you have time and dedication, it's pretty easy to get in a top guild.
Not anymore, and same time define top.
Generally even up to top 250, stupid shit dont get tolerated for long anymore, like dying to easy-mode ground effect ability more than once.
Especially in TBC, with the attunements and having to recarry people, you could be extra forgiving.
Going from memory, in TBC it was a top 250 guild, in WotLK it was top 100 (maybe top 50), MoP was lower though, can't remember what, probably top 400.
They all had terrible players that would piss me off with their stupidity on progress, and in the end I found it better to just raid with friends.
And yes, if I joined a top guild today, I would still come across terrible players. Mythic is not that hard.
Yep, top end raiding nowadays has too many tools to know how good you actually are, in vanilla tbc etc these tools werent available, so A TON of people were actually trash and still managed spots on top guilds, you can see method roster and any top tier guild, they are all insane players, you cant say the same about "top tier" players from vanilla/tbc.
Yeah, and my own guild that in WoTLK was around top 80 for the first period of 7 months, had some terrible players looking back to it, but the whole "Friends" and "IRL" was quite forgiving myself, but looking back, dear god, its the same now but i am 1000% more casual oriented so i tolerate their badness and its only HC clears so.
That just shows the game design up to that point really, how Time +Gear can carry you a long way.
And no, the higher you go in ranks , the less terrible players you find, since there is a massive difference nowadays how progress actually works.
Last edited by potis; 2019-09-03 at 10:07 AM.
Raiding is a totally different game these days compared to back then anyway. Well with the top guilds like Method, the lengths they go to is ridiculous. Not so much now for Method, since the make good money doing it and it's a full time job, but if you raid like that and have a full time job, damn... it's impossible for me.